What's in Wisconsin's water?

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**whembly**

O.o

Seriously? It's things like this imo that perpetualized any racial divides...

Oh... stole this from my twittah feed: "Hey, maybe we can get yellow stars for the Jews, too. Fun for everyone!"

MADISON – The Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction runs several programs that emphasize racial issues.

One of those programs – an Americorps operation called VISTA (Volunteers in Service to America) – encourages white students to wear white wristbands that serve "as a reminder about your (white) privilege?"

The program for high school students "seeks to build capacity in schools and districts serving low-income families to develop an effective, sustainable, research-based program of family-school-community partnerships,"according to its Facebook page.

That sounds reasonable enough. However, the program becomes a bit suspect when one notices the Gloria Steinem quote on the top of their webpage: "The first problem for all of us, men and women, is not to learn, but to unlearn."

The webpage list a series of suggestions for high schools students to become more racially sensitive. The suggestions include:

• Wear a white wristband as a reminder about your privilege, and as a personal commitment to explain why you wear the wristband.

• Set aside sections of the day to critically examine how privilege is working.

• Put a note on your mirror or computer screen as a reminder to think about privilege.

The Wisconsin DPI also sponsors CREATE Wisconsin, an on-going "cultural sensitivity" teacher-training program that focuses largely on "whiteness" and "white privilege."

**purplefood**

Oh god damn it...
Not this social justice tumblr privilege crap. Not in real life...
Whoever came up with this idea deserves a thorough beating. With a dictionary strapped to a phone book.

**Manchu**

What's the problem? Are you saying white privilege doesn't exist or that white people should not think critically about it or that critical thought generally is bad or ... ?

**purplefood**

Simply wearing a wristband isn't going to make someone appreciate being white. It won't make people appreciate any advantage they have in their life.

**Medium of Death**

Manchu beat me, and said it more eloquently than I would have.

As for the "unlearn" part, I took that in the context of pre/misconceptions and bias.

Comparing the White wristband to the Yellow star worn by Jews is pretty ridiculous... even done from a "humourous" stand. Considering one has the concept of Privilege/responsibility while the other was supposed to Foster hatred and shame.

**whembly**

Manchu wrote:
What's the problem? Are you saying white privilege doesn't exist or that white people should not think critically about it or that critical thought generally is bad or ... ?

If you want to promote racial harmony... this is not the way to go...

Of course you should "think critically" of what's going on around you... but this is an extension to white guilt.

**Frazzled**

I thought Americorps was federal. Am I wrong?

**Alfndrate**

I'm with purple on this (I can't believe I just said that)...

Yes whites are privileged, we've conned our way into ruling over people for a few hundred years (all the years?), and because of it, we're kind of trying to make it up to EVERYONE by reminding ourselves of people who aren't us that did terrible things in the past.

Helping humans should be the priority, not explaining why you're reminding yourself of how good your life is compared to others because you were born a different skin color.

Americorps is a branch of the PeaceCorps... so... if they're federal, so are it's branches...

**Frazzled**

Manchu wrote:
What's the problem? Are you saying white privilege doesn't exist or that white people should not think critically about it or that critical thought generally is bad or ... ?

My father grew up so poor he and his brother were put in an orphanage just to eat. They picked cotton at 6 years old. Later, his brother ran away to join the Corps, and a judge offered him that opportunity when he was 16.

What was that white privilege thing again?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Medium of Death wrote:
Manchu beat me, and said it more eloquently than I would have.

As for the "unlearn" part, I took that in the context of pre/misconceptions and bias.

Comparing the White wristband to the Yellow star worn by Jews is pretty ridiculous... even done from a "humourous" stand. Considering one has the concept of Privilege/responsibility while the other was supposed to Foster hatred and shame.

If it were a government agency then there's a joyous argument it violates the Constitution on its face.
Do Asians wear yellow bands? Do Taiwanese have to wear them but Montagnards or filipinos don't?
Do African Americans wear different colors to express their privilege as being "house" vs. "field"?
Same to same for "white" hispanics vs. the sons of Mayans?
Do North Koreans have to wear one that says "at least I don't have to eat grass"
So South Africans have to wear one that says "ask me about my accent!"
Do Comanches get to wear Tshirts that say "see this is what happens when you don't have good border security?" Ok I'd down with that one.

**Polonius**

Well, let's see:

0.38% of whites are incarcerated, while 2.2% of blacks are.

Black people are seven times more likely to be murdered than a white person.

The average white household has a net value of $110,000, compared to the black average of $5,000.

I have a feeling it's not wristbands that perpeuate a racial divide.

**Mr. Burning**

• Wear a white wristband as a reminder about your privilege, and as a personal commitment to explain why you wear the wristband.

Does the white wristband not look out of place next to some of the more upmarket and fashionable timepieces that whitey can obtain?

**Frazzled**

Mr. Burning wrote:
• Wear a white wristband as a reminder about your privilege, and as a personal commitment to explain why you wear the wristband.

Does the white wristband not look out of place next to some of the more upmarket and fashionable timepieces that whitey can obtain?

Can I wear a crimson wristband, and when someone asks shout "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

**Manchu**

Mr. Burning wrote:
Does the white wristband not look out of place next to some of the more upmarket and fashionable timepieces that whitey can obtain?

Honestly, this is the best critique of this plan. A fashionable white wristband is kind of yet another indicator of white privilege.

**whembly**

Polonius wrote:
Well, let's see:

0.38% of whites are incarcerated, while 2.2% of blacks are.

So... it's the collective white folks fault for that... gotcha. I always find these stats intentionally misleading.

Black people are seven times more likely to be murdered than a white person.

Who's killing the blacks? Answer: other black folks.

The average white household has a net value of $110,000, compared to the black average of $5,000.

So "The Man" is putting them down? Who's "The Man"? Also another stat intent to mislead.

I have a feeling it's not wristbands that perpeuate a racial divide.

It's things like this that are making people more racist on both sides.

I went to SCHOOL in St. Louis City for 6 years and I have many friends who happen to be black.

I think the issue stems from classical liberals believing that people are supposed to be self-determining, which then means that our race, which is predetermined, should not matter. In essence, race is not supposed to affect our life choices or our life outcomes.

But it does. Statistically, on a plethora range of social indicators, blacks in the U.S. generally come out worst and Hispanics come out next worst, and so on.... So liberals have to account for why race still matters.

I think that in our society (the US at least) is gradually progressing toward these desired liberal outcomes. Society is becoming ever more enlightened through continuing education and prosperity... which over time will eventually create a society that is blind to race.

However, these "White Privilege" theories is really derived when one group of people create a false category (a social construct called "white") in order to perpetuate the claim that these people gain an unearned privilege at the expense of everyone else.

In essence, these theories are saying whites are exceptional over other races... which is bs.

Also, people seem to leave out that some people are donkey-caves for the sake of being donkey-caves. We can't fix donkey-caves....

**Mr. Burning**

Frazzled wrote:
Mr. Burning wrote:
• Wear a white wristband as a reminder about your privilege, and as a personal commitment to explain why you wear the wristband.

Does the white wristband not look out of place next to some of the more upmarket and fashionable timepieces that whitey can obtain?

Can I wear a crimson wristband, and when someone asks shout "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

You should shout that regardless of useless wristbands.

**Polonius**

whembly wrote:

However, these "White Privilege" theories is really derived when one group of people create a false category (a social construct called "white") in order to perpetuate the claim that these people gain an unearned privilege at the expense of everyone else.

In essence, these theories are saying whites are exceptional over other races... which is bs.

Also, people seem to leave out that some people are donkey-caves for the sake of being donkey-caves. We can't fix donkey-caves....

First off, social constructs aren't a false category when looking at social trends. You can replace the term "white" with "person of nearly entirely european heritage" if semantics really bother you, but anybody that doesn't think there are "white people" is hopelessly naive. And the concept of "white" wasn't created at UC Berkly in the 60s, it was created in colonial America.

And you're missing hte point. White people arne't exceptional, any more than black people are inherently criminal or lazy. If you take as your basic assumption that all races are genetically about the same (a great place to start), but the outcomes for those races are dramatically different, dont' you have to wonder why?

If racial inequality were the results of a "few donkey-caves," then those guys must be working hard to lock up a ton of black guys and keep the rest poor.

The problem is that we seem to have said, "well, technically, on paper, our system is color blind. Good enough for me!" I'm not sure what we can do about the inequality (although some folks have some interesting ideas) but denying white privilege allows for passive discrimination. See, if you assume that white people are no more likely to suceed, than any poor/uneducated/unemployed black person you meet clearly hasn't tried hard enough.

When you're more likely to have financial support from family, less likely to get arrested/prosecuted/convicted/incarcerated for similar acts, and have an easier time finding work and getting credit, I think it's key to understand that you did have those advantages.

**Frazzled**

Mr. Burning wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Mr. Burning wrote:
• Wear a white wristband as a reminder about your privilege, and as a personal commitment to explain why you wear the wristband.

Does the white wristband not look out of place next to some of the more upmarket and fashionable timepieces that whitey can obtain?

Can I wear a crimson wristband, and when someone asks shout "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

You should shout that regardless of useless wristbands.

You're assuming I don't.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Again does that mean that "white" hispanics should wear a bracelet too? How about 1950s Cuban emigres vs. Mariel boatlift people?
Do Taiwainese and Chinese have to wear a bracelet but non Chinese Malaysians don't?
Do "White Europeans" have to wear them but Irish Americans don't? Do Eastern Europeans have to wear them, even though they were uniformly poor? If not can we get a listing of countries that are acceptable and those representing the oppressor list?
How about half "white" and half Asian? Do they wear a half bracelet?
Same to same for light skinned African Americans.

This is getting fun.

**whembly**

Polonius wrote:

The problem is that we seem to have said, "well, technically, on paper, our system is color blind. Good enough for me!" I'm not sure what we can do about the inequality (although some folks have some interesting ideas) but denying white privilege allows for passive discrimination. See, if you assume that white people are no more likely to suceed, than any poor/uneducated/unemployed black person you meet clearly hasn't tried hard enough.

When you're more likely to have financial support from family, less likely to get arrested/prosecuted/convicted/incarcerated for similar acts, and have an easier time finding work and getting credit, I think it's key to understand that you did have those advantages.

Polonius... I get that, I really do... I've been participating in these debates all my life. I was born in the 1970's... pretty soon, my generation will be running the show (if we're not there already) and I've not once seen/heard of the abject racism that folks experienced prior to the 1970s. I feel like we're foisted to carry a burden (shame/guilt) for acts/crimes that our forefather did... just how I feel.

This guy, here... this is how I feel, please take the time to read... it's all about "the Messaging":
http://open.salon.com/blog/cleo_creech/2011/06/19/the_problem_with_preaching_the_white_privilege_gospel

This will piss an awful lot of people off. I know this upfront so I beg some patience here to read through this posting with an open mind. There is within the activist community in the United States, a bit of subculture within a subculture that probably is the stuff of nightmares among the FOX news crowd and the right wing Republican party. It's the cult of attacking white privilege in this country, it's often extended to the attack on what is basically white male privilege. There's books on this, even a national conference titled aptly enough the "The White Privilege Conference." You can even get college credit for attending.

Now try as they might to not frame themself selves as bashing or pointing fingers there really is only so many "nice" ways to say that white people are the root of all the problems in society. That a white euro-centric perspective and cultural dominance is the root cause of pretty much all our social ills. Sexism, racism, classism, pretty much any ism you can think of as well as let's not forget homophobia. Now I think you can make some points there yet I just have to take exception at their approach and it's effectiveness.

I myself am an activist, a minority (gay), and work in areas and have friends of friends where our circles overlap with the White (Male) Privilege crowd. I admitted live in two worlds, a white male world, and a minority world. So though many might discount my opinions outright just because of my genitalia and skin color, I'd like to put forth that I am uniquely qualified to comment on this since I can straddle a bit of a fence and see across toward both opposing worldviews here.

One of my big complaints about the White Privilege argument is that it's just too easy. I see people calling white privilege fouls at every turn. Yet I'd argue that much of what is pegged as white privilege is indeed class privilege, people love to talk about racism, sexism, but no one likes to talk about classism. Classism also includes many facets though of racism, status, wealth, religion, so it's harder to pin down and quantify sometimes. It's much easier to see a white guy doing well and say "oh yeah, another white guy making the big bucks and living in the big house." It's just not that simple.

Middle-class whites need to realize that they actually have much more in common politically, socially, with middle-class African Americans that they do with the upper 2% of whites that run this country. Certainly poor whites need to realize that they have much more shared values and shared stakes in politics with poor African Americans than rich whites. Yet, why don't these people realize that? Well here I would like to point out white/upper class privilege. It's a very effective tool to maintain racial tensions and keep all whites on the same team to keep a certain elite in power. Thus we get this rather twisted notion by poor and middle-class whites that raising the taxes on the upper 2% somehow is an attack on them. That class warfare means whites and against blacks, freeloading welfare moms against hardworking white males - which is just not the case. Most often the very people that I try to convince are on the losing end of the class warefare in the country, somehow think they're the ones having to defend the gates. We may never shake up the status quo here in this country with regards to jobs, equality, stopping this runaway income disparity unless working class peoples see their commonality.

Also, I'm just not sure that with the White Privilege crowd. That alienating even friendly, allies in the white community is a good policy. Part of the genius of MLK's civil rights movement, was that it gave white's a gracious exit strategy out of the status quo. Not only did minorities benefit, but the civil rights movement offered a huge benefit to whites as well. It painted a picture of a color-blind society where white's could see themselves as progressive, as more civilized and evolved. Let's not underestimate the power of liberal smugness, especially when it's deserved. Dr. King's vision of young children of all races playing together one day, was not only a win for the black child not facing discrimination it was a win for the white child as well who was living in a better society.

That is one of the big things missing in today's social arguments. That sense of a greater good and a striving for a better society for all it's members. We seem to have forgotten how to sell that big picture. So I'm just now sure how effective the approach is in trying to educate white people on just how privileged, how spoiled, and just how badly they've messed things up is going to work. Who would ever even be open to that argument, no one likes to be a scape goat, even if it's partially deserved.

People work in their own best interests. That's obvious in today's political environment. The tea party crowd doesn't want to pay for anything that they don't directly benefit from. No one sees the benefit in social programs, in safety nets. We seem to have just forgotten just how bad things have been in this country on so many fronts; race relations, labor laws, safety concerns, care of the elderly, healthcare, the list goes on. What we need is a bit more enlightened self interest. People who can once again sell the benefits to everyone on a society that looks after the least among us. We need to sell the benefits of [education, of the middle class, of a livable wage and job security. So that we all can see that we're working toward a better society, not retreating to some perceived American "Father Knows Best" society which never really existed.

Also, just on a practical note if you push the main problem with society as being white privilege, what is the solution? They'd have you believe that it's mainly just education, yet if you really believe that, it seems the only real solution is taking away some of that privilege from whites. Just how do you do that? No group in power is going to willingly give it up, that's just again self interest. So are we talking legislation, or just outright revolution, storming the castle with torches and pitchforks?

It seems though that if you take the approach that the problem is more class, then the answers seem more workable. There are obvious solutions to fixing class divides. Chief among those is access to education, education is the great equalizer. Education should be free, across the board. A college education should be a right for everyone that can make the grades. Yet we have just the opposite going on in the country today, education is getting more expensive, more exclusive. Students are saddled with years of debt, technical education is pushed over a broader liberal arts education. We even have the emergence of a growing private for profit education system that is both expensive and of questionable value. I'm not going to be surprised in the current environment if states don't soon start saying that it's not longer their job to provide education and just privatize education altogether.

There's other items as well, healthcare. We have the greatest healthcare in the world (or so we like to believe) until we actually need it and get sick. Or heaven forbid we lose our insurance. We can do better.

So the challenge is how to sell the benefits to all people of a more even playing field of a more classless society. So let's do better. I'm tired of being beaten over the head for all this supposed white privilege I have. I'm just not quite sure in this economy how much good that did me a I lost my job and didn't find steady work for almost two years. How I almost lost my house and my savings, insurance. I keep asking myself, now just where is all this white privilege I'm supposed to be enjoying. I think a lot of people are in my same boat.

**Manchu**

whembly wrote:
I've not once seen/heard of the abject racism that folks experienced prior to the 1970s

Thanks to white privilege.

Meanwhile, take a look at what's going on in South Eastern MI with the loss of democracy -- in areas that are overwhelmingly poor and black. Nationally, voter ID laws are transparently targeting impoverished minorities. In the Supreme Court, affirmative action is under attack as "outdated."

Here's some light reading for you: http://iasp.brandeis.edu/pdfs/Author/shapiro-thomas-m/racialwealthgapbrief.pdf

**whembly**

Manchu wrote:
whembly wrote:
I've not once seen/heard of the abject racism that folks experienced prior to the 1970s
Thanks to white privilege.

Nooo... thanks to institutionalize racism. There's a difference.

Meanwhile, take a look at what's going on in South Eastern MI with the loss of democracy -- in areas that are overwhelmingly poor and black.

That has nothing to do with racism or white privilege... that has everything to do with how poorly those cities were operated with... why bring that in?

Nationally, voter ID laws are transparently targeting impoverished minorities.

I have no problem with this... for the simple fact that if those impoverished people (not just minorities) need some sort of welfare, then they have to provide some sort of identifications. The only "voter ID" law that you may have a point is (I believe) the recent one in Pennsylvania... even then, that was dubious.

In the Supreme Court, affirmative action is under attack as "outdated."

Good riddance.... James Webb (a Democrat mind you) had this to say:

Nondiscrimination laws should be applied equally among all citizens, including those who happen to be white. The need for inclusiveness in our society is undeniable and irreversible, both in our markets and in our communities. Our government should be in the business of enabling opportunity for all, not in picking winners. It can do so by ensuring that artificial distinctions such as race do not determine outcomes.

**Manchu**

White privilege is a form of institutionalized racism. Another form of institutionalized racism is the complicated policies of segregation that characterize the Detroit Metro Area and have resulted in regional economic abandonment that is now being used to justify deposing black elected governments there. Voter ID laws have nothing to do with government services. They are a transparent attempt to disenfranchise already-marginalized groups. So that's more institutionalized racism. And affirmative action, which is nothing more than the assertion of a counter privilege to stymie de facto segregation, is obviously still necessary if the wider nation wants to avoid issues like the ones facing Detroit.

**whembly**

Manchu wrote:
White privilege is a form of institutionalized racism.

If it's exists... that's what I'm arguing here about.

Another form of institutionalized racism is the complicated policies of segregation that characterize the Detroit Metro Area and have resulted in regional economic abandonment that is now being used to justify deposing black elected governments there.

I'm not familiar with the whole Detroit mess... so, I don't know what to see about that other than, who elected those politicians?

Voter ID laws have nothing to do with government services. They are a transparent attempt to disenfranchise already-marginalized groups. So that's more institutionalized racism.

I disagree with you here. I believe you must show some form of identification in order to vote to ensure the integrity of the whole election process...

What we can debate on here is "how to implement" the voter ID laws...

Don't tell me fraud doesn't exist.

In recent news... here's the acutal poll worker admitting she voted more than once.

And affirmative action, which is nothing more than the assertion of a counter privilege to stymie de facto segregation, is obviously still necessary if the wider nation wants to avoid issues like the ones facing Detroit.

Then this will never end... you do know of Shriley Sherrod...right? Edited for clarity: That whole snafu is indicative to the problem... whereby both sides are are fault... like the furor over Tavon's death.

**Polonius**

I don't want to sound pedantic, but what other explanation for the fact that white people are privileged is there other than either social advantages or inherent superiority?

If you have two groups, Group A and Group B, and Group A consistently outperforms B in nearly all areas, then what options are there to explain the matter outside of either A being inherently superior, or A having some sort of advantage?

As for the article, it's a bit off topic. He's talking about the concept that white culture has caused, or is continuing to cause the opression of black america. Maybe it is, and maybe it aint', but I don't think today's white people are wrong, evil, or immoral. What they do have is the incredible gift of being white in a country where most cops, judges, bosses, politicians, bankers, and teachers are white.

The article makes good points in saying that a lot of racial rhetoric is a tool to keep power in the hands of the elites. What it glosses over is the differences between even a middle class black man and a white one. Maliciously or not, many elements of the system still work against even well off black people.

**dogma**

Frazzled wrote:

I thought Americorps was federal. Am I wrong?

The funding is federal, but the direction is local or private.

So the federal government will pay a participant, but the orders come from either the agency or NPO he is working for.

**DAaddict**

While overt advantages of being white MAY exist. I would argue that money or lack thereof is the biggest point of discrimination/privilege in this country.

I would point to O.J. Simpson as an example of money talks.
Maybe the percentage of whites being more well off is higher so they don't get incarcerated as often. Perhaps having funds means I can afford to send my kid to a better school. Perhaps affording a snappy line of clothes makes me appear more presentable thus more able to impress at a job interview or garner a raise pr higher llevel job.

While money is no guarantee, it certainly makes succeeding a lot easier.

Perhaps those who have parents earning a six-figure salary should wear a gold headband...

**CuddlySquig**

I think the only possible outcome of getting white high school kids to wear white wristbands is white people will feel like people are asking them to feel ashamed of who they are. You'd just give white racist groups fuel for their propaganda.

The idea of some universal white privilege really quite oversimplifies everything.
And I'm technically not even white.

**Manchu**

CuddlySquig wrote:
white people will feel like people are asking them to feel ashamed of who they are

Well, the wristband is supposed to make them keep in mind how lucky they are to be white. So if anything, the opposite concern is more relevant.

**CuddlySquig**

Manchu wrote:
CuddlySquig wrote:
white people will feel like people are asking them to feel ashamed of who they are
Well, the wristband is supposed to make them keep in mind how lucky they are to be white. So if anything, the opposite concern is more relevant.

If you read the comments in some postings of this story, people are outraged because the message they get is "you are white therefore you are automatically successful and don't have to work for what you have. Lucky you."

**Frazzled**

Manchu wrote:
CuddlySquig wrote:
white people will feel like people are asking them to feel ashamed of who they are
Well, the wristband is supposed to make them keep in mind how lucky they are to be white. So if anything, the opposite concern is more relevant.

Interesting that no one has replied to my queries yet. If a person is half "white" do they have to wear one too? Does President Obama have to wear one?

**CuddlySquig**

Frazzled wrote:
Manchu wrote:
CuddlySquig wrote:
white people will feel like people are asking them to feel ashamed of who they are
Well, the wristband is supposed to make them keep in mind how lucky they are to be white. So if anything, the opposite concern is more relevant.

Interesting that no one has replied to my queries yet. If a person is half "white" do they have to wear one too? Does President Obama have to wear one?

As a half-white I'd only wear it if it made me eligible for something good. Otherwise I'd go "hell no. Look at how Japanese I am."