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Made in ca
Inspiring Icon Bearer




Canada

 Sigvatr wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
And he is how many points for a one-turn wonder that will be hurting for magic dice most of the time?


With a casting bonus of +5, you only need 2 dice (avg. 7, thus total casting average per spell = 12) to reliably cast any buff in the game on your units. And with a total of 7 PD, on average, that still is a reliable way to get the spells you picked before off.


Wow, so a lot of people on these boards seem to have no idea how dice probabilities work.

Yes, the "average" roll on 2d6 is 7. However, that's not enough information to go on:


Total on dice Pairs of dice Probability
2 1+1 1/36 = 3%
3 1+2, 2+1 2/36 = 6%
4 1+3, 2+2, 3+1 3/36 = 8%
5 1+4, 2+3, 3+2, 4+1 4/36 = 11%
6 1+5, 2+4, 3+3, 4+2, 5+1 5/36 = 14%
7 1+6, 2+5, 3+4, 4+3, 5+2, 6+1 6/36 = 17%
8 2+6, 3+5, 4+4, 5+3, 6+2 5/36 = 14%
9 3+6, 4+5, 5+4, 6+3 4/36 = 11%
10 4+6, 5+5, 6+4 3/36 = 8%
11 5+6, 6+5 2/36 = 6%
12 6+6 1/36 = 3%


So the chance of getting that "average" roll is the sum of it and everything larger, so 59%. Thus if you're relying on "average" rolls you have a 41% chance of falling short and prematurely ending your casting phase. That's a pretty huge risk when you've invested so much in your magic phase. Add in a third d6 and your probability of hitting that 7+ just jumped up to 90.4%, a huge improvement.

Personally, I prefer not to take a risk of more than 10% early in my magic phase. However, once you only have 2 or 3 dice left in your power pool there's much less at stake when you try to squeeze 3 spells out of there rather than 2.

So roll the safest spells first, then push to the riskier spells that have higher casting dice or that you're less concerned about getting off (and thus are using fewer dice for).

PS: a great tool for calculating odds is anydice.com
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Ehm? You only automatically fail when you roll a 1 or 2. Let's look at some buffs and their casting requirement.

Pha's Protection: 6+ / 12+
Flesh to Stone: 8+
Harmonic Convergence: 6+
Flaming Swords: 8+ / 11+
Wildform: 10+

It's not easy to cast most of those with 2d6 and a +5 mod? With casting bonus included, results you need to roll:

Pha's Protection: 1+ / 6+
Flesh to Stone: 3+
Harmonic Convergence: 1+
Flaming Swords: 3+ / 6+
Wildform: 5+

Looks pretty safe to me. The main downside is dispelling, forcing you to roll more dice.

/e: Man, thanks for the site. I've been looking for a site like this forever

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2013/05/12 21:45:57


   
Made in ca
Inspiring Icon Bearer




Canada

My point is that talking about "average rolls" is misleading. What's more important is the chance of failure.


So rolling two dice against the most powerful versions of those spells:

Pha's: 41% chance of failure.
Flesh to Stone: 3% chance of failure
Harmonic Convergence: 3% chance of failure
Flaming Swords: 28% chance of failure
Wildform: 17% chance of failure


So safe...-ish. I would still leave some of those spells to later in my phase, or lessen the risk by throwing a third die at it.
   
Made in ca
Evasive Pleasureseeker



Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:
My point is that talking about "average rolls" is misleading. What's more important is the chance of failure.


So rolling two dice against the most powerful versions of those spells:

Pha's: 41% chance of failure.
Flesh to Stone: 3% chance of failure
Harmonic Convergence: 3% chance of failure
Flaming Swords: 28% chance of failure
Wildform: 17% chance of failure


So safe...-ish. I would still leave some of those spells to later in my phase, or lessen the risk by throwing a third die at it.


You're not going to roll for the most powerful version though... (unless you're an idiot)

The idea is simply to spam as many buffs/hexes as possible to run the enemy our of dice and then get your 1-2 crucial spells off with ease. Phoenix Guard for example only really need 2 buffs to become 'uber... Get Wildform and Glittering Robe off on them, and you now effectively have Chaos Warriors with HE special rules!

Support the unit with a Frostheart and combined with 2-3 characters + BotWD, the unit is all but unstoppable outside of really borked dice.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Level 4 Archmage: 220 points.
Teclis: 450 points.

You are paying a 230 point premiums for:
+1 wizard level
Being able to get +1 dice per spell for one phase OR ignore one miscast during the entire game.
Pick one spell from each lore

If you are taking Teclis you are not taking a Level 4 that can pick BRB Magic and get better synergy and you are also sacrificing one of these:
Loremaster
Level 2
Level 1 (x2)
19 Sea Guard
10 Silver Helms
12 Reavers
17 White Lions
15 Phoenix Guard
7 Dragon Princes
1 unit of 3 chariots
Either Phoenix

So this:


Experiment 626 wrote:

The idea is simply to spam as many buffs/hexes as possible to run the enemy our of dice and then get your 1-2 crucial spells off with ease. Phoenix Guard for example only really need 2 buffs to become 'uber... Get Wildform and Glittering Robe off on them, and you now effectively have Chaos Warriors with HE special rules!

Support the unit with a Frostheart and combined with 2-3 characters + BotWD, the unit is all but unstoppable outside of really borked dice.


Becomes:

Level 4 (Lore of Metal for Glittering Robe)
Loremaster (For Wildform)
Phoenix Guard, 2-3 characters, BoTWD
Frostheart
12 spells to pick from, better synergy from having 4 Lore of Metal Spells, 2 wizards to channel dice.

Or

Level 4 (Whatever Lore)
Phoenix Guard, 2-3 characters, BoTWD
+15 more Phoenix Guard
Frostheart

Or

Level 4 (Whatever Lore)
Phoenix Guard, 2-3 Characters, BoTWD
Frostheart x2

Or

Level 4 (Whatever Lore)
Phoenix Guard, 2-3 characters, BoTWD
Frostheart
+Flamespyre

Are any of these options that much easier to face than Teclis?
   
 
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