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Hi, Im new to this forum and only just joined. I was just at the School league today and my team didn't qualify. Im worried my list let the team down so I was wondering if someone could suggest improvements for this list:

Sorcecer- Base sorcecer with no upgrades- 60pts

9 CSM w meltagun, champ and champ with power sword -152pts

7 CSM w Flamer and meltabombs-111pts (Chainswords and bolt pistols)

1 Heldrake w baleflamer- 170pts

Aegis defence line w Quad-gun- 100pts

Total - 593pts

Please remember that the points limit is 600pts

Hello,
I think you are spending too much on flyer and anti-flyer stuff. The ADL then needs a squad to fire the gun, just putting the sorcerer there will get him shot or overrun to easily, that leaves you with a single agressive unit. The 9 CSM I presume were manning the ADL to keep most things within range of their bolters; in which case the melta gun is wasted. If it was the other unit manning the ADL then all of their pistols are mostly wasted.

If you ran with these models again consider making a basic 5 man CSM unit with nothing else to man the ADL, give them bolters. Then pool the remainder into a larger unit. If you have more assault/plasma weapons give the ADL unit a plasmagun and keep meltas / flamers in the larger unit.

If you move away from this list consider dropping the ADL and maybe a power sword to pay for some havocs; the sorcerer has effectively got a power weapon. That'll get you a unit with two autocannons and a las cannon; then you just need to find them a building to sit in. I would keep the heldrake as it is a bit of a pest to deal with in lower point games and can take on two units a turn.

Most list even out over a game so there was probably an element of bad luck in not quailifying, better luck next time.

It turns out GW got the calculations wrong and we came joint 2nd. We have now qualified for the next round! Thnx anyways because, ill still make these changes. ill drop the Aegis for a squad of havocs and convert the heavy bolter to an autocannon. ill keep the heldrake and pool the CSM into a bigger squad. I might replace the 5 man squad w cultists.

Awesome,
give the new list a couple of plays before the next round! I don't want to mess it all up for you.

I agree with Jasper.

At this points level, drop the ADL. It's too expensive. I would also consider getting rid of the champion with the power sword and the meltabombs from your CSM. Keep the flamer as that is going to do wonders if they are assaulted.

Again, at this points level, you are much better off having as many guns as possible. So generally speaking you want to stay away from upgrades unless they are going to improve your shooting.

I'd only consider havocs if you think your going to see either other flyers, vehicles that can do some damage or large monstrous creatures. For example storm ravens, land raiders or tervigons. All of which are unlikely at 600 points. If it's just Rhinos or DE Raiders then I'd put those points into either cultists or another CSM squad.

Certainly keep the helldrake; it's just pure fun. Finally, I would recommend you keep at least the two groups of regular CSM. Cultists are good for shooting because they are cheap, but they die very very easily. Which means, you use them to harass your opponent, but don't depend on them to hold objectives.

thnx i will drop the upgrades on the marines but, keep the flamer. I will keep the havocs because, they had quite a few flyers at the School league. The only reason i would keep the power sword is because, my champion needs for challenges. If they didn't have the champion of chaos rule i would definetly drop the power sword. I agree with you though, heldrakes are just too much fun to not include in my army.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Using these guidelines i came up with this:

1 Sorcerer w MON- 80pts

8 CSM w bolters- 114pts

7 CSM w chainswords and bolt pistols w flamer- 106pts

Heldrake w baleflamer- 170pts

5 Havocs w 3 Autocannons and 1 lascannon- 125pts

Total: 595

Feedback would be appreiciated.

Looks good.

ty

No codex to hand but isnt veterans of the long war available for 1pt/model for the havocs, extra leadership for your last 5 points.

That is a good idea, thx humiestompa!

Your original list is not that bad so don't worry too much!

Some of the changes you have made have improved the list IMO, though why the MON on the sorceror? Yes, it makes him tougher, though he now has to take a Nurgle power and he should really be used as a buff to your havoc - keep him naked and take the divination primary power.

Bodies are important, though a little extra punch never hurts so naked marines re not optimised.

Go for something like this:-

Sorceror (Divination) - 60pts

10 Chaos Space Marines with 2 plasma guns - 170pts

5 Chaos Space Marines with bolt pistol & close combat weapon - 75pts

Helldrake with bale flamer - 170pts

5 Havocs with 3 Autocannons and 1 lascannon- 125pts

Total: 600pts

I would love to have got a flamer and power weapon on the 5 man squad though would need 20pts - though if you have the models you could save 10 changing the lascannon to another auto cannon and equip the flamer and meltabombs?!

Good luck,

~BB~

Thnx british bulldog, ill think about ur advice.

Bulldog's list is spot on really, I would probably go with the 4 autocannons though - that loadout is one of the best options in the codex for points efficiency, and it allows you to add the flamer and Mbombs back in from your original list.

In a small force putting the lascannon in the havocs is a good idea, you get the extra AP2 weapon for when terminators land nearby and they are the only viable target; gives you a reasonable chance of taking two down. Or when the only thing you can see is AV13+; who cares about glancing take it out cleanly.

I think i will include havocs with at least one lascannon just in case someone has a land raider. (I hate land raiders)
Taking 4 autocannons is ok, but they are only good at taking out light vechiles and flyers if you roll a six. Thnx anyways.

 British Bulldog wrote:
Your original list is not that bad so don't worry too much!

Some of the changes you have made have improved the list IMO, though why the MON on the sorceror? Yes, it makes him tougher, though he now has to take a Nurgle power and he should really be used as a buff to your havoc - keep him naked and take the divination primary power.

Bodies are important, though a little extra punch never hurts so naked marines re not optimised.

Go for something like this:-

Sorceror (Divination) - 60pts

10 Chaos Space Marines with 2 plasma guns - 170pts

5 Chaos Space Marines with bolt pistol & close combat weapon - 75pts

Helldrake with bale flamer - 170pts

5 Havocs with 3 Autocannons and 1 lascannon- 125pts

Total: 600pts

I would love to have got a flamer and power weapon on the 5 man squad though would need 20pts - though if you have the models you could save 10 changing the lascannon to another auto cannon and equip the flamer and meltabombs?!

Good luck,

~BB~

Honestly, I have a few problems with the list, you're fairly low on bodies (For my style of play anyways), you CANNOT take Divination with Chaos Marines, only Biomancy Pyromancy and Telepathy - Yes Biomancy is also rather helpful, but honestly the only help you're gonna get from it is if you roll enfeeble or endurance.

Personally, I run 2 Autocannons and 2 Missile Launchers on any Havocs I take, then you have a nice amount of dice to throw, as well as up to 2 blast templates for infantry killing.

The Bolt Pistol and CCW squad is pretty weak and would be a very easy first blood - also they don't seem to be doing anything (I recommend swapping them out for cultists, VERY helpful objective holders at this level of play).

Also the 10 Man squad is a waste of 2 Plasma Guns, any smart player would know to stay well away from them, which means the unit would have to footslog across the field, primarily you'd want them to sitting on an objective though, being they have no safe way of getting across the table.

The Heldrake I have no problem with, I've found Heldrakes to be one of of the most overpowered models in the game, however, if it get's destroyed you have NO anti-infantry, and you're going to be left with a bunch of unit's slogging on the ground.

It's a 600pt battle, if you stay away from the plasmaguns you don't have anything to fight and the heldrake and havocs will get you!

 Jasper wrote:
It's a 600pt battle, if you stay away from the plasmaguns you don't have anything to fight and the heldrake and havocs will get you!

I am aware, but I'm sure any well written list will have a method of taking out heavy infantry that likes to hide at the back of the board, also, the Heldrake is more or less unavoidable to any opponent,, so they'll have to find a way of dealing with it in their own time. Also, the Heldrake and Havocs would still be able to get you anyway, so avoiding the plasma guns is just one less thing to worry about.

Added note, 6th Edition is not majorly a game of winning the firefight, with 5 out of the 6 missions being objective base, confronting the enemy isn't all that important, unless you need to kill a unit that is holding an objective that is...

I denfenatly am taking at least one plasma gun incase of termies. I probably will swap out the cc squad for cutists. However, I like the idea of 3 autocannon havocs and 1 lascannon havoc. I know missle launchers are good at taking out hordes but, my heldrake and CSM squad can handle that.

 Eldarslayer26 wrote:
I denfenatly am taking at least one plasma gun incase of termies. I probably will swap out the cc squad for cutists. However, I like the idea of 3 autocannon havocs and 1 lascannon havoc. I know missle launchers are good at taking out hordes but, my heldrake and CSM squad can handle that.

Trust me, basic CSM squads cannot take out hordes, they don't have enough firepower, yes your Heldrake has the ability to do so, but it's your only means of anti-Horde - You WILL want missile launcher's on your Havoc's. As for taking one plasma gun, you're just asking for whichever unit it's in to be killed first, you'd probably be better off taking some Termies of your own. (Preferably with power fists).

Also important, don't forget about the volume of dice, if you have 1 lascannon and you depend on it to take out heavy vehicles, you're going to have to be pretty lucky to insure you kill it/survive, and you'd be wasting your 3 autocannons if something is AV 14 - an Imperial Guard's Leman Russ for example, which are fairly common in the school league (At least from my experience). Those 15 Point's that you save can be spent on another Marine!

call me crazy but for a few moc games me and some mates did, a flying DP with the black mace and power armour, a hell drake and some marines in a rhino+cultists. killed pretty much anything but that was just us messing around.

I would reccommed a flying DP though :'3

I was going to exchange havocs for termies anyway. Just bought them today. lol
Someone at my club said that I should use termies instead of havocs and gave me a good reason so im taking them.

Im not taking a daemon prince because, there a massive fire magnet and IMO they are way too many points for a 600pts force.

thnx anyways.

Out of curiosity, what list are you using right now? I think you have a major weakness of only 1 anti-AV:14 weapon.
AV:14 is common in 600pts, my small league guard brings a demolisher at that level, and with nothing to threaten it (other than the Heldrake vector strikes and a single lascannon) these kinda lists will really cause you an issue.

Otherwise, I really like the list. It's got good potential, but it's certainly the scissors to an AV:14 guard rock.

Im using this list:

Socerer with MON- 75pts

7 CSM w plasma gun and combi-bolter rhino- 156pts

13 cultists w 12 autoguns- 74pts

heldrake w baleflamer- 170pts

3 termies w 2 power fists. champ has power axe and combi-melta - 123pts

Total:598

The Sorcerer goes w the CSM squad. The cultists distract the enemy and the CSM capture objectives. The heldrake just kills infantry whilst the termies will deepstrike and take out key targets.

That's looking very strong. CSM can clearly do well at low levels!
My knowledge of CSM codex is pretty weak, but doesn't MON limit the powers your sorcerer can take? Would the BRB powers be better?

 Eldarslayer26 wrote:
Im using this list:

Socerer with MON- 75pts

7 CSM w plasma gun and combi-bolter rhino- 156pts

13 cultists w 12 autoguns- 74pts

heldrake w baleflamer- 170pts

3 termies w 2 power fists. champ has power axe and combi-melta - 123pts

Total:598

The Sorcerer goes w the CSM squad. The cultists distract the enemy and the CSM capture objectives. The heldrake just kills infantry whilst the termies will deepstrike and take out key targets.

Interesting Tactics.. I think you should use the CSM and Sorcerer as a Distraction (Make sure they have cover being you'll want them to move up the table whilst in their Rhino!) and use the cultists to hold objectives (Preferably whilst gone to ground in ruins for that 3+ Cover Save) though, overall I would say that the list seems pretty good! Being you'll be playing against opponent's who don't know your list, they are very likely to ignore the cultists, so as long as they stay in some form of cover on an objective then you should be fine!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Griddlelol wrote:
That's looking very strong. CSM can clearly do well at low levels!
My knowledge of CSM codex is pretty weak, but doesn't MON limit the powers your sorcerer can take? Would the BRB powers be better?

MoN is probably the most useful thing for a sorcerer in this list, the extra point of toughness can really help out a lot and the nurgle power's are VERY powerful. As for taking BRB powers, the only decent tree you have access to is Biomancy, which is only gonna help you out if you roll a 3 or a 4 imo (Whilst running up the field that is).

I agree with you. Most people would probably just ignore cultists. I like the MON upgrade because, it stops my leader from getting id from missle launchers. The nurgle powers are also really cool and are highly destructive. Thnx for the help

If you're going with terminators (and it may be hard to do if you have just got a pack of them) then 3 combi-meltas may be the way forward to give you more change of taking out armour if you are deep striking; or shooting down other 2+ save units.

Couldnt you just assault high armoured targets w the terminators? The power fists can still do some damage. The champ does already have one combi-melta already.

If you deep strike (outflank or infiltrate) them then you can not asault in the same turn, you can either run or shoot.
If the plan was to deep strike to get rid of a tank then you really need as much melta as possible.
Also if you are facing off against another terminator unit (say of the 5 man imperial variety) if you get the chance to shoot melta it gives you more of a chance to seriously cut them down to a more managable size than combi-bolters would give. If you want to hedge your bets get a couple of combi-melta and a combi-plasma.