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Ok so I've been watching Doremicom's batreps n youtube, and they've proven very valuable at showing a lot of the dice mechanics in action.. like I understand during opposed rolls you're essentially trying to beat the roll of your opponent without going over your skill. Still I have a question, that I think anyone with passing familiarity with the game can probably answer pretty easily. For sake of ease let's assume 2 models have a ballistic target of 14 (and not including things like cover and what not) now the active player has a burst 3 weapon and the reactive player chooses to shoot back. The active player gets a 16, 12, and 8. The reactive player rolls an 11. Now the 16 is a failure, but how do you resolve the other two shots? Do both players make an ARM check?

Higher rolls will cancel out lower rolls that aren't crits. So in your example the 16 will miss, the 12 will cancel the 11, but the 11 will cancel the 8. So in the end the reactive player will take one hit from the 12.

Examples:

X = Active model
Y = Reactive model

1.
X BS 12, B3
Y BS 11, B1

X - 11, 4, 3
Y - 10
Result = Y takes one hit

2.
X BS 12, B4
Y BS 10, B4 (total reaction)

X - 15, 14, 3, 1
Y - 20, 16, 3, 3
Result = Y takes one hit (the 3s all equal, but X has the higher skill so wins)

3.
X BS 12, B4
Y BS 13, B4 (total reaction)

X - 15, 14, 3, 1
Y - 20, 16, 3, 3
Result = X takes two hits (the 3s all equal, but Y has the higher skill so wins)

4.
X BS 13, B4
Y BS 13, B4 (total reaction)

X - 15, 14, 3, 1
Y - 20, 16, 3, 3
Result = All hits are canceled because the both model's modified BS was the same.

5.
X BS 12, B2
Y BS 10, B1

X - 11, 11
Y - 10
Result = X takes one wound with no save (crits will always beat non-crits)

6.
X BS 11, B2
Y BS 10, B1

X - 11, 11
Y - 10
Result = Y takes twos wounds with no save (higher crits will always beat non-crits and lower crits)

7.
X BS 11, B2
Y BS 11, B1

X - 16, 11
Y - 11
Result = All shots are canceled as both models crit while going for the same modified BS.

Thank you. I "think" I got it. The only one that seems weird to me is #1, but Y's 10 effectively cancels out both X's 4 and 3? Ok so one last example.

X BS 11, B3
Y BS 11, B1

x - 10,4,3
y - 10 That would be they all cancel out right cause the BS are equal?

I imagine once two players know what they're doing all of this would play out fast, but I guarantee my first game, trying to show someone this, that's gonna be a slooow game.

lol just remember that any higher roll cuts off the lower ones (unless they are crits, which cancel out all opposing Non-Crits). Since most AROs are one die that makes it real fast.

I've got to admit, your #1 example has confused me BD.

Any chance you can go over that one again, citing the rules as you go?

Does this help? Blue is the Ballistic Skill. Green are successful hits. The 10 cancels out the 3 and 4. 11 beats the 10.

1.
X BS 12, B3
Y BS 11, B1

X - 11, 4, 3
Y - 10
Result = Y takes one hit

X: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Y: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

-----------------------

In the case of at tie shot. Y takes a hit because X has a better BS.

X BS 12, B3
Y BS 11, B1

X - 10, 4, 3
Y - 10
Result = Y takes one hit


X: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Y: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

cretinator wrote:
Thank you. I "think" I got it. The only one that seems weird to me is #1, but Y's 10 effectively cancels out both X's 4 and 3? Ok so one last example.

X BS 11, B3
Y BS 11, B1

x - 10,4,3
y - 10 That would be they all cancel out right cause the BS are equal?

This is correct, the bullets slam into each other, and the two operatives start to wonder whether they are in a John Woo flick...

Note: It is the BS value including all MODs that determine the attribute total for that FTF. So lets say Y is in the open and in 0 range band, while X is in his +3 range band, the BS attributes will look like this:

X BS (11 + 3) 14, B3
Y BS 11, B1

x - 10,4,3
y - 10

X will now score 1 hit, as while normally the BS value is the same, the target score of X is higher than Y.

 CDK wrote:
Does this help? Blue is the Ballistic Skill. Green are successful hits. The 10 cancels out the 3 and 4. 11 beats the 10.

1.
X BS 12, B3
Y BS 11, B1

X - 11, 4, 3
Y - 10
Result = Y takes one hit

X: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Y: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

-----------------------

In the case of at tie shot. Y takes a hit because X has a better BS.

X BS 12, B3
Y BS 11, B1

X - 10, 4, 3
Y - 10
Result = Y takes one hit


X: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Y: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

It does, I think!

I didn't realize that a higher successful hit canceled out ALL the lower successes of an opponent...?

Correct. All lower miss. I found that a scale really helps to figure it out.

I also use the analogy of Black Jack. You want high scores but not too high.

The same can be done with Dodge. Say Y Dodges instead of shoots. He needs to beat all of the opponents shots to win.

Heres the same thing with an ARO Crit. The orange is the crit. He got exactly what he needed. Even though both players got an 11, and X has a higher BS, Y got the crit and wins the F2F.

X BS 12, B3
Y BS 11, B1

X - 11, 4, 3
Y - 11
Result = X takes one hit

X: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Y: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

I guess somewhere along the line I got confused.

I thought that in a FTF roll BS active vs. ARO, the ARO would only cancel out ONE hit, not ALL hits that the ARO number beat.

Huh!

Yep the result is that you one ARO can be rather effective. You get sprayed by 5 shots outside of optimal range, your best bet is typically to dodge. That way you have a good shot at cutting off a good chunk of those shots.

Right. I've found that when getting shot by a sniper or something with long range, and mine only has a combi-rifle, I'm at -12 to hit! Cover, range, TO camo, but no modifier for Dodge!

The worst is when you are outranged like that... with your REM. I'll dodge... on a PH2... *cries as the sniper misses his shots but you still can't pass a PH to get out of LoF*