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So, I made a 2k list for the lulz comprised mostly of veterans of the First Company and wanted to know what people thought. And yes, I have two of every combi (3 of plasma including the sarge) in every Sternguard Squad. I did that on purpose. Lol. Anyway, what does Dakka think? Other than swapping out combi-weapons (which I may do later), how could I improve the list?

+++ Veteran (2000pts) +++
+++ 2000pt Space Marines 5th Ed (2008) Roster (Primary Detachment)) +++

Selections:

Space Marines 5th Ed (2008) (Primary Detachment) Selections:

+ HQ + (225pts)

* Chapter Master (225pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Tactics, Independent Character, Orbital Bombardment)
Artificer Armour (15pts), Auxiliary Grenade Launcher (15pts), Hellfire Rounds (10pts), Jump Pack (25pts), Melta Bombs (5pts), Plasma Pistol (15pts), Power Sword (15pts)


+ Elites + (965pts)

* Sternguard Veteran Squad (245pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
* Drop Pod (35pts)
Storm Bolter
* Space Marine Sergeant (30pts)
Chainsword, Combi-Plasma (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Flamer (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Flamer (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Melta (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Melta (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Plasma (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Plasma (5pts)


* Sternguard Veteran Squad (245pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
* Drop Pod (35pts)
Storm Bolter
* Space Marine Sergeant (30pts)
Chainsword, Combi-Plasma (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Flamer (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Flamer (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Melta (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Melta (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Plasma (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Plasma (5pts)


* Terminator Assault Squad (475pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
* Land Raider Crusader (275pts)
(Assault Vehicle, Power of the Machine Spirit)
Extra Armour (15pts), Storm Bolter (10pts)
* Terminator (40pts)
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
* Terminator (40pts)
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
* Terminator (40pts)
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
* Terminator (40pts)
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
* Terminator Sergeant (40pts)
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield


+ Troops + (340pts)

* Tactical Squad (170pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
Flamer, Missile Launcher, 9x Space Marine (144pts)
* Space Marine Sergeant (26pts)
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


* Tactical Squad (170pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics)
Flamer, Missile Launcher, 9x Space Marine (144pts)
* Space Marine Sergeant (26pts)
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


+ Fast Attack + (315pts)

* Vanguard Veteran Squad (315pts)
(And They Shall Know no Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics, Heroic Intervention)
* Drop Pod (35pts)
Storm Bolter
* Space Marine Sergeant (70pts)
Jump Pack (10pts), Plasma Pistol (15pts), Power Weapon
* Veteran (60pts)
Jump Pack (10pts), Plasma Pistol (15pts), Power Weapon (15pts)
* Veteran (60pts)
Jump Pack (10pts), Plasma Pistol (15pts), Power Weapon (15pts)
* Veteran (45pts)
Bolt Pistol, Jump Pack (10pts), Power Weapon (15pts)
* Veteran (45pts)
Bolt Pistol, Jump Pack (10pts), Power Weapon (15pts)


+ Heavy Support + (155pts)

* Thunderfire Cannon (155pts)
* Drop Pod (55pts)
Deathwind Missile Launcher (20pts)

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

Well, I think a lot of people wont support the mixed plasmas as it reduces their effectiveness in each field. But if you want to do that then okay.

The chapter masters got some things I dont see as useful for his role. The auxiliary gl and hellfire rounds I dont think are necessary with the jump pack. But his role also brings up another issue... is he running with the vanguard veterans? If he is, they loose heroic intervention so now you've got a really really (like seriously really, not even THSS termies are that much and they kick ass) expensive unit that will drop in, pop off a few plasma pistol shots and then die horribly from 100 lasgun or shoota shots.

Your tac squads are virtually running naked, and from past experience my orks or whatever eat them when they're not in their shiny metal boxes.

I dont think you really need to drop pod the TFC. Its not as though range is an issue, so its just LOS but deployment can normally deal with that. Also thats one expensive drop pod.

You really only have one unit with presence on the board and thats the Terminators in the raider. But with only 1 at 2000pts and no support, its dead meat.

Yes I hear what your saying about fielding a veteran army but what I feel is this; squads like the Sternguard look like they are trying to accomodate for every situation... poorly. How I see the 1st companies are a whole lot of small specialist units who excel in their particular niche and work well together overall to make the army effective.

edit; I guess I should make some suggestions if I'm going to be a critic...

I would make some sternguard units to specialise in anti tank with melta in a drop pod. But being mindful of that they're often one hit wonders, also grab some other anti tank units like predators or some of the fliers if you're up for those (point dependant).
Loose all the jump packs and take the vanguard vets, or more terminators? and chuck them in another raider.
Loose the pod on the TFC
Rhinos for the tac squads, mostly useful for 1st turn redeployments and such then just troll with LOS to the raiders... okay trollings not very 1st company but whatever.
Obviously this all depends on what other models you've got...

Are Hellfire Rounds not only for bolt weapons? as far as i can see your CM has a plasma pistol and power sword so taking them is a waste of points?

Gah, I hate battlescribes' output. Makes it hard to decipher what you have at a glance.

You have 4 drop pods. You only need 3. 2 for the sternguard, and put a tac squad in one. Add locator beacons to the stern's pods to help guide the vanguard in.

I'd swap your chapter master for a chaplain and have him ride with the terminators. TDA or Cassius. Or go with Pedro to make the sternguard scoring.

You are light on troops. I'd toss in a scout squad at the very least. You could probably pay for one just by shaving wargear off of the Vanguards. Not everyone needs a power weapon, and plasma pistols are overpriced.

Heh.. Well, I did some revision last night and took off the Vanguard drop pod and made some changes around to wargear and added another Termie. I'm gonna do some more revision using your suggestions, Nev. Thanks. Ill post the revision and I'll make the format a little easier to read for ya. Lol
And this is neither here nor there, but if I made this list in reality and not for Vassal, I would have a count-as Kantor, since homebrew Chapter. Yeah.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crap. Since I'm on my phone, I can't really modify the format other than trim down the rules each unit has. Sorry. Lol

+ HQ + (175pts)

* Chapter Master Pedro Kantor (175pts)


+ Elites + (1060pts)

* Sternguard Veteran Squad (255pts)
* Drop Pod (45pts)
Locator Beacon (10pts), Storm Bolter
* Space Marine Sergeant (30pts)
Chainsword, Combi-Plasma (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Flamer (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Flamer (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Melta (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Melta (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Plasma (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Plasma (5pts)


* Sternguard Veteran Squad (255pts)
* Drop Pod (45pts)
Locator Beacon (10pts), Storm Bolter
* Space Marine Sergeant (30pts)
Chainsword, Combi-Plasma (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Flamer (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Flamer (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Melta (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Melta (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Plasma (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Combi-Plasma (5pts)


* Terminator Assault Squad (550pts)
* Land Raider Crusader (270pts)
(Assault Vehicle, Power of the Machine Spirit)
Hunter-Killer Missile (10pts), Storm Bolter (10pts)
* Terminator (40pts)
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
* Terminator (40pts)
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
* Terminator (40pts)
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
* Terminator (40pts)
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
* Terminator (40pts)
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
* Terminator (40pts)
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
* Terminator Sergeant (40pts)
Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield


+ Troops + (340pts)

* Tactical Squad (170pts)
Flamer, Missile Launcher, 9x Space Marine (144pts)
* Space Marine Sergeant (26pts)
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


* Tactical Squad (170pts)
Flamer, Missile Launcher, 9x Space Marine (144pts)
* Space Marine Sergeant (26pts)
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


+ Fast Attack + (270pts)

* Vanguard Veteran Squad (270pts)
* Space Marine Sergeant (75pts)
Jump Pack (10pts), Melta Bombs (5pts), Plasma Pistol (15pts), Power Weapon
* Veteran (65pts)
Jump Pack (10pts), Melta Bombs (5pts), Plasma Pistol (15pts), Power Weapon (15pts)
* Veteran (65pts)
Jump Pack (10pts), Melta Bombs (5pts), Plasma Pistol (15pts), Power Weapon (15pts)
* Veteran (35pts)
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Jump Pack (10pts), Melta Bombs (5pts)
* Veteran (30pts)
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Jump Pack (10pts)


+ Heavy Support + (155pts)

* Thunderfire Cannon (155pts)
* Drop Pod (55pts)
Deathwind Missile Launcher (20pts)


Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rahxephon wrote:
Well, I think a lot of people wont support the mixed plasmas as it reduces their effectiveness in each field. But if you want to do that then okay.

The chapter masters got some things I dont see as useful for his role. The auxiliary gl and hellfire rounds I dont think are necessary with the jump pack. But his role also brings up another issue... is he running with the vanguard veterans? If he is, they loose heroic intervention so now you've got a really really (like seriously really, not even THSS termies are that much and they kick ass) expensive unit that will drop in, pop off a few plasma pistol shots and then die horribly from 100 lasgun or shoota shots.

Your tac squads are virtually running naked, and from past experience my orks or whatever eat them when they're not in their shiny metal boxes.

I dont think you really need to drop pod the TFC. Its not as though range is an issue, so its just LOS but deployment can normally deal with that. Also thats one expensive drop pod.

You really only have one unit with presence on the board and thats the Terminators in the raider. But with only 1 at 2000pts and no support, its dead meat.

Yes I hear what your saying about fielding a veteran army but what I feel is this; squads like the Sternguard look like they are trying to accomodate for every situation... poorly. How I see the 1st companies are a whole lot of small specialist units who excel in their particular niche and work well together overall to make the army effective.

edit; I guess I should make some suggestions if I'm going to be a critic...

I would make some sternguard units to specialise in anti tank with melta in a drop pod. But being mindful of that they're often one hit wonders, also grab some other anti tank units like predators or some of the fliers if you're up for those (point dependant).
Loose all the jump packs and take the vanguard vets, or more terminators? and chuck them in another raider.
Loose the pod on the TFC
Rhinos for the tac squads, mostly useful for 1st turn redeployments and such then just troll with LOS to the raiders... okay trollings not very 1st company but whatever.
Obviously this all depends on what other models you've got...

I just now saw your post. Wow, I'm blind.

Hmm... Actually, you're right... But what I was thinking is that the termies go up with Sternguard support to deal with things, and get a Heroic Intervention in need be, while (with the revised list) going after any objectives, if any, with the other Sternguard and the Tac Marines. ...but maybe I do need Rhinos for them... Now I also have to consider the fact that Kantor, who doesn't get termie armor, won't necessarily get much done with the termies now. Hm... I'm gonna spend a little more time thinking this over before I post again,