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What is the common consensus regarding flyers shooting vehicles in cover?, Strictly from RAW whenever you shoot a vehicle you need to shoot at the facing you positioned in so if say a rhino is literally next to a ruin or ADL, it would usually get cover no matter what since the facing is hidden. However what happens when a flyer positions itself on the other side of the wall, looking clearly at the top of the vehicle?, Would it get cover on the fashion of an angled shot? or since the model can be shot straight from above it negates cover saves?

As with ALL cover. Get down and look if the model qualifies. The cover rules are quite explicit in how a model qualifies for cover.

Is it 25% covered? If yes, it gets cover.

If the facing can be seen then you do not get an enhanced cover save.

Since there is no top armor, look at page 73 to see how the facings work. part of the top looks like it is included in the side facing on that tank in the Pic.

 Grey Templar wrote:
As with ALL cover. Get down and look if the model qualifies. The cover rules are quite explicit in how a model qualifies for cover.

Is it 25% covered? If yes, it gets cover.

In the case of vehicles is: Is 25% of the facing hidden? If yes, it gets cover. with any flyer if you look from the gun (if literally being next to the vehicle) the facing would get cover due to the angle of the shot, you might even not look at the facing at all but see the vehicle 100% clear.

Keep in mind that if a Flyer is "looking clearly at the top of the vehicle" it's not likely that your weapons are actually in arc to fire.

Ok, here are two scenarios...



Assuming the heldrake has a Hades Autocannon, it is completely above the rhino, IF it can get to shoot at the rhino because... well it is in front of it would it get a cover?, the look from the head/gun would be something like this:



From the view of the gun you can't actually see the facing so... can you shoot at it? if yes, does it get cover due to the facing being.. well completely obscured?

On a second scenario where there is a more reasonable angle and you can clearly see the facing, of the rhino like say:



There you can easily determine if the facing gets cover, which it does since it is next to the ADL, That's how I read the rule for shooting at vehicles but there has been people at my FLGS claiming that since more than 75% of the model is visible considering the top face there is no cover granted.

The faq on the heldrake's Arc of Sight is to measure all ranges from the edge of the heldrake's base to the nearest target unit.

If we follow the rules about drawing a line through the corners then the helldrake is clearly in the left arc of the rhino. So, looking at it from the base, we can see the top of the left side of the Rhino so the Obscured rule doesn't come into play.

However, 25% or more of the facing being targeted is covered, so you get the regular ADL cover save.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
Keep in mind that if a Flyer is "looking clearly at the top of the vehicle" it's not likely that your weapons are actually in arc to fire.

Very true.
The only one I can think of at the moment is on the Heldrake as the FAQ tells us to measure the arc of sight from the base which side steps this whole issue.

If the flyer was a stormraven instead of the heldrake (which was the case on one of my games), then you still need to draw the LoS from the gun, assuming the heldrake on the pics is a stormraven shooting i dunno, his melta or the assault cannons (which are 360° iirc)

@Lord Yayula: The problem then is that the Stormraven, like all other flyers excluding the heldrake, has a 45 degree wide cone that the shot can come from.

If the Stormraven is basically sitting on top of the Rhino, then the arc rules would prevent all of it's weapons from targetting the Rhino anyway. So cover and obscure doesn't even come into play.

 Lord Yayula wrote:
his melta or the assault cannons (which are 360° iirc)

No, neither the melta nor assault cannons on a stormraven have a 360 degree arc of fire.

Heldrake = Measure LOS from the base

Everyone else: You have a 45 degree vertical arc which means 22.5 degree downward pivot which means most vehicles where you see directly down on will probably be out of LOS of your fire arcs anyways.

You have to be a good 6-8"+ away from a vehicle to see it usually with your 22.5 down vertical arc.

From the pics, you would hit and penetrate against the side armor, and he would get the ADL armor save.

Isn't the Heldrake's weapon a template?

 insaniak wrote:
Isn't the Heldrake's weapon a template?

The weapon it comes with is hades autocannon, the baleflamer is a option on it.

Hardly suprisingly you didnt know it comes with another weapon....

MarkyMark wrote:
Hardly suprisingly you didnt know it comes with another weapon....

Given that I don't have the $85 codex, no.

 insaniak wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
Hardly suprisingly you didnt know it comes with another weapon....

Given that I don't have the $85 codex, no.

Wasnt a dig, I meant you will hardly see the autocannon because everyone will be taking the baleflamer!