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So with rebuilding my IG aircav list and getting some needed kits/models I've asked myself how many Vendattas I should bring in an all aircav list?
I have 2 Valks now and getting my kits from forgeworld to build them into Vendettas but while browsing FW I've asked myself how many Vendettas are useful in a 2250pts - 2500pts army?
The army is basicly all veterans/stormtroopers but I am thinking about having one blob behind to bring some support fire on the table. But since I havent played a game in the 6th edi and just read a lot about the new meta I am a bit clueless.

Well the one thing I've learned from playing aircav so far (I've only got a vulture, 1 valk and 2 vendettas). You do need to have a solid core on the board to begin with lest you get tabled before your flyers hit the board. In addition in an air cav list from personal experience I've found my astropath an auto include. As to numbers of flyers for 2500pt army I'd assume you want as many as your going transport vets/stormtroopers/PCS's in. At that point range in my opinion you can afford to take some valkyries as well. Like I said to exact numbers I'd don't know I plan on getting 1 more vendetta and one more valk eventually. Giving me 2valk/3vendetta/1vulture.

Really you should look at the Elysian list in IA Vol 8. It's got some really cool options for taking fliers as dedicated transports.
You lose some heavy weapon choices, but you gain army wide deep strike and a really cool flavour.

Why should I take a valk ever? I mean they dont add much to my list from what I know but maybe I am wrong.
Vultures are a nice addition, so another gakload of bucks for some FW models


Elysian was on the deciding table but I think running Elysian will get me into troubles when playing tournaments or are IA books now allowed in official tourneys? So far I am building up an Cadian shock troop force because I have most models already but if Elysian is playable I will run them for sure since I love the theme and their models.

I rarely encounter FW bans in tournaments. I've never been to an "official" tournament. GW doesn't hold many of those any more.
There are reasons to take Valks. If you're spamming Vendettas you'll be hard-countered by horde lists. Although if you can get your hands on a Vulture, that'll really help mitigate this. However it doesn't have a transport capacity.

 Griddlelol wrote:
I rarely encounter FW bans in tournaments. I've never been to an "official" tournament. GW doesn't hold many of those any more.
There are reasons to take Valks. If you're spamming Vendettas you'll be hard-countered by horde lists. Although if you can get your hands on a Vulture, that'll really help mitigate this. However it doesn't have a transport capacity.

Sounds like I will get me some vultures and Elysian stuff then - my bucket crys already.
Valks are nice vs hordes yes but vulture seems to be even better and has more potential to support vs heavy stuff as well.
2Vendettas, 2x Vulture, 2x Sky Talon is on the deciding table. I will get me IA 8 asap and have a look into the Elysian stuff to get a clue what to order.
But since I build my lists theme orientated I guess I will go with 6 flyers plus 2support vehicles and the rest will be drop troops.

 Gorbad wrote:
2x Vulture.

Ah, I forgot to specify: this is why you might consider Valkyries. You cannot squadron Vultures. Although 1 Vulture should handle most hordes well. It's on the table for longer than a Valkyrie and so contributes a lot more. I wouldn't recommend taking Valks if you can get a Vulture, I was just giving a reason why you might want to!

Aye

Vultures are no real problem, they cost a lot but I am not in a hurry to get all models and when I really decide to go full Elysian it will eat my 2013 hobby budget and a chunk of my 2014 one as well so one or two vultures wont add too much. I wish GW would have more choices for IG troops but well, it seems it have to be all FW *urghs* On the other hand I am still thinking about sticking with Cadian shock troops. I have around 50 GW cadians, 2 squads of Kasrkin, some special weapon Kasrkins, 3 weapon teams, 2 valks and a command squad already lieing around. But never got around to assemble and paint them since I had my focus on commission works and my WHF army. So getting some FW kits to pimp the GMs and building the valks into vendettas would save me a good chunk of money.

 Griddlelol wrote:
Really you should look at the Elysian list in IA Vol 8. It's got some really cool options for taking fliers as dedicated transports.
You lose some heavy weapon choices, but you gain army wide deep strike and a really cool flavour.

Yeah maybe I will just to mix it up and use my catachans as count as, but I have the flexibility with the amount of models I got to do traditional gunline to.

Back to the OP: Yeah the vulture is definitely awesome, has become a staple in my lists with the twin-linked punisher cannons (if my opponent allows it), vector dancer is surprisingly capable of keeping it on the board.

The biggest problem that you're going to have with air cav in 6th relative to 5th is that now you can't start with all of your stuff in reserves. As such, any air cav is really sort of... half air cav.

Even if you could put everything in reserves, it's all rather risky now, as a few bad reserves rolls and your opponent concentrating on your ground forces, and it's possible that you could lose the game by virtue of having nothing on the table, even if you still have healthy units in continuing reserves.

As such, you're going to have to devote a lot more attention (and points) to what you want your ground game to look like than you had to in the past.

Can full Elysian purchase an aegis? They seem portable. The wall would help prevent aircav from getting tabeleld early, and more importantly the coms relay is golden.

Hmm, I really need to get my mind into 6th

Maybe the best idea for now is to pimp the stuff I have, put the stormtroopers into the vendettas and build up a gunline in the back. That way I can get a quick grip on 6th while working on my air cav list. I'll definately get the IA8 book asap to see what special rules Elysian offers. This year will be pretty expensive regarding the 40k part of my hobby

 Ailaros wrote:
The biggest problem that you're going to have with air cav in 6th relative to 5th is that now you can't start with all of your stuff in reserves. As such, any air cav is really sort of... half air cav.

Not completely true. The "up to half of army in reserve" rule is only half of stuff that has the option of starting on the table. Fliers and their contents do not count towards this, so you can put as many in reserve as you want to. Of course, you should probably have something on the the board at the start of the game or you will just lose. Fluffy aircav units to start on the board would be sentinels, tauros and camo vets acting as forward scouts.

As for FW, I have found people and events slightly less accepting of the lists than of the individual units. Of course, this is something you should look into with the actual people or events you are going to play.

Also, I thought that vultures could be taken in squadrons of three. I know that they can be in an ABG list, although you can only take one unit.

 Trickstick wrote:

Also, I thought that vultures could be taken in squadrons of three. I know that they can be in an ABG list, although you can only take one unit.

In IA:A they are limited to one per unit. That's where I took my number from.

Trickstick wrote: Fliers and their contents do not count towards this, so you can put as many in reserve as you want to. Of course, you should probably have something on the the board at the start of the game or you will just lose.

Right, but still, it's not the air-cav of yore where everything was in a vendetta. Now it's more like most of your army is in vendettas, but a serious chunk is still on the board.

Other than the changes to fliers, I think that's what most puts me off wanting to play air cav at the moment. I liked the 5th ed version where everybody flew in. Less so the half and half thing.

Trickstick wrote: As for FW, I have found people and events slightly less accepting of the lists than of the individual units. Of course, this is something you should look into with the actual people or events you are going to play.

Which I find kind of ironic. The only way FW approaches any semblance of balance is when you take an entire list of one of their armies, and it's when you're allowed to cherry pick the worst-balanced units and add them into your army without any of the restrictions is when things get really absurd.

I'm getting more and more convinced to stick with stormtroopers as a VP picking strike force while my "gunline" holds my side. All aircav seems to be not so tasty and running an all aircav with Elysian might get me into trouble because of all FW army. Going with cadia is waaay cheaper on top of all the good points. So now I just need to come back from holydays, get a grip on the 6th rules and assemble my army plus adding all the needed stuff - back to the decision table.

So besides the cookie-cutter choice: stormtroopers in vendettas any suggestions for a good gunline to hold my back? I'm not a big fan of mech lists but that doesnt mean I dont like tanks if I need them.

memo to myself: next holiday trip take your BRB/codices with you!

Storm troopers in vendettas is considered cookie-cutter? I can't see a single benefit of putting a storm trooper squad in a vendetta, when you could put Vets in there instead.

 Griddlelol wrote:
Storm troopers in vendettas is considered cookie-cutter? I can't see a single benefit of putting a storm trooper squad in a vendetta, when you could put Vets in there instead.

Vets it was ... no codex here and long time out of 40k, my bad

 Gorbad wrote:


Vets it was ... no codex here and long time out of 40k, my bad

Oh lol. No worries.

Griddlelol wrote:Storm troopers in vendettas is considered cookie-cutter? I can't see a single benefit of putting a storm trooper squad in a vendetta, when you could put Vets in there instead.

You can assault out of them without having to take the vendetta out of flier mode while playing planetstrike games.

Don't ask how long it took me to come up with that...

Ah Air Cav!
Elysian 1500 points army, it's so fluffy I'm gonna die (by turn 3):

Company command Tauros (60 points)
Vets 3 GLs 1 ML (110 points)
Vets 3 GLs 1 HB (105 points)
Vets 3 PGs, Vendetta (255 points)
Vets 3 PGs, Vendetta (255 points)
2 Drop Sentinel HF (70 points)
2 Drop Sentinel MM in Sky-Talon 2 MRP 1 HB (200 points)
2 Drop Sentinel MM in Sky-Talon 2 MRP 1 HB (200 points)
Vulture HB TL Punisher (155 points)
2 Tauros Tauros-GL (90 points)

- 9 AV10s
- 5 Flyers AV12s
- 4 Large blasts
- 13 blasts
- 2 templates
- 6 twin-linked Lascannons
- 4 MMs
- 6 get's hot fun
- Silly twin-linked Punisher with a sprinkle of HBs.
- Everything can either deep strike or scout.

 Ailaros wrote:

You can assault out of them without having to take the vendetta out of flier mode while playing planetstrike games.

Don't ask how long it took me to come up with that...

You got me! Apparently there is a reason lol.

 Ailaros wrote:
You can assault out of them without having to take the vendetta out of flier mode while playing planetstrike games.

Nope, not even that. Grav chute insertion is still disembarking. So yes, the planetstrike special rule would remove the ban on assaulting after deep striking, but it does not remove the ban on assaulting after disembarking from a vehicle without the assault vehicle USR.

h3r0 wrote:
Ah Air Cav!
Elysian 1500 points army, it's so fluffy I'm gonna die (by turn 3):

Company command Tauros (60 points)
Vets 3 GLs 1 ML (110 points)
Vets 3 GLs 1 HB (105 points)
Vets 3 PGs, Vendetta (255 points)
Vets 3 PGs, Vendetta (255 points)
2 Drop Sentinel HF (70 points)
2 Drop Sentinel MM in Sky-Talon 2 MRP 1 HB (200 points)
2 Drop Sentinel MM in Sky-Talon 2 MRP 1 HB (200 points)
Vulture HB TL Punisher (155 points)
2 Tauros Tauros-GL (90 points)

- 9 AV10s
- 5 Flyers AV12s
- 4 Large blasts
- 13 blasts
- 2 templates
- 6 twin-linked Lascannons
- 4 MMs
- 6 get's hot fun
- Silly twin-linked Punisher with a sprinkle of HBs.
- Everything can either deep strike or scout.

Reads like a nice all aircav list, thanks a lot.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
You can assault out of them without having to take the vendetta out of flier mode while playing planetstrike games.

Nope, not even that. Grav chute insertion is still disembarking. So yes, the planetstrike special rule would remove the ban on assaulting after deep striking, but it does not remove the ban on assaulting after disembarking from a vehicle without the assault vehicle USR.

About the only thing that I can think of is the ST apocalypse formation that lets you fire, move and then fire again. Pretty nice for shock value.

 Gorbad wrote:
Reads like a nice all aircav list, thanks a lot.

Well, great if you like losing. It has way too many grenade launchers and other useless things, and not enough of the stuff that makes Elysians special (drop Sentinels and Tauros can be taken in codex lists, and there aren't enough Valkyries/Vendettas to make use of the extra "fast attack" slots you get by taking Valkyries as dedicated transports).

Glad you liked it Gorbad.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Gorbad wrote:
Reads like a nice all aircav list, thanks a lot.

Well, great if you like losing. It has way too many grenade launchers and other useless things, and not enough of the stuff that makes Elysians special (drop Sentinels and Tauros can be taken in codex lists, and there aren't enough Valkyries/Vendettas to make use of the extra "fast attack" slots you get by taking Valkyries as dedicated transports).

First it's a Fluffy list, so probably not for your taste.
As for the GLs the two vets squads with no transport are maint to hold the line at home, the GLs are versatile and cheap.
I am not aware of Drop sentinels and Tauros for regular guards but I am interested to know how and if there is an official GW list amendment about it.
As for the Valkyrie has dedicated transport, at the moment I don't see a lot of potential appart from being a MRPs holder which the Sky-Talon can do for 30 points less. If expending this list it will definitely be a necessity though.

Sorry if you can't handle the fluff boy ;-).

So you are staying on the board turn 1 with 2 vet squads?

You may want to think about turning them into a small platoon since their BS 4 does nothing for you with back board GL.

155 pts for 15 bodies versus 160 pts for 10 bodies...might help keep you on the board for turn 2 to arrive.

If you want a bad ...er, cheap weapon take a mortar so you can fire from out of LoS and stay alive. May keep you on the board so your strike force can show.

You could also really use an aegis defense line...Elysian style. Try http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440312a&prodId=prod1095505

Put a comms behind it and you might actually be able to play a fluffy competitive game. Cause lets be serious "fluffy" is not an elite Elysian strike force showing up one at a time to attack an emplaced enemy with substandard weapons and no forethought or preparation to even make barricades for their "forward scouts" who have to weather an enemy assault. Just cause it is soft doesn't mean it is not dangerous...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg FEAR the fluffy!

h3r0 wrote:
First it's a Fluffy list, so probably not for your taste.

What's fluffy about it? "Fluffy" requires some kind of interesting background fiction behind the choices, not just things that are bad at winning games.

As for the GLs the two vets squads with no transport are maint to hold the line at home, the GLs are versatile and cheap.

If by "versatile" you mean "are bad at lots of different things" then yes, they're versatile. Otherwise take melta/plasma.

I am not aware of Drop sentinels and Tauros for regular guards but I am interested to know how and if there is an official GW list amendment about it.

Read the unit entries in IA1 (second edition).

As for the Valkyrie has dedicated transport, at the moment I don't see a lot of potential appart from being a MRPs holder which the Sky-Talon can do for 30 points less. If expending this list it will definitely be a necessity though.

The point is that the Elysian drop troops list has two advantages over a codex IG list, and gives up various things (support tanks, CCS with 4x special weapon, etc) to get them:

1) Valkyries as dedicated transports so you aren't limited to three fast attack slots for taking your gunships.

2) Deep striking infantry.

This list makes use of neither of these, so why use the Elysian list at all? It's just a weaker version of what you could do with a codex army.

Also vultures are heavy support (this is the only thing I like about the list)