Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Still don't like the Marauders. I can see the improvements that have been made but the ripper suits still don't match the art and the commandos are "alright". Granted I have never liked ork factions anyway, Mantic would have had to pull off something seriously impressive to convince me not to sell them the second they arrive on my doorstep...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I still maintain that a simple choice of factions rather than the fixed ones would be a vast improvement. As it is I am teetering on the edge of dropping out and buying some FW stuff.

Honestly, if you still dislike the Marauders then make sure to tell Mantic. Because a ground-up resculpt is still on the table for them if people still don't like them.

For me, the proportions are a lot better and the poses much improved. Not sure on the faces still but a lot of that is due to it being hard to pick out exact details on them. They probably look fine painted up.

I'm hoping the arms are interchangeable as well since that should help variety.

Overall, I am basically fine with them as is now. Just enough RT/2nd Edition Ork look for me to enjoy them. But they were never my primary faction, so I feel I have less of a dog in that race. If they end up seeing a ground-up re-sculpt then I doubt I'd pitch a fit, but if they stay as is I will still be fine with them. Now that I have my Forge Fathers, I am a happy stubborn fuzzball.

But if you still have misgiving about the Marauders, then don't hesitate to voice 'em either in the comments or via direct email to Mantic. They have said that they are open to the idea and if a bunch of people sit and stew rather than tell them then no one is happy.

As an aside... What the hell do I do with the extra $10? Chovar merc, a couple of specialists or maybe grab that Marauder biggun for an extra $2 on-top. Has Mantic said when FF-related add-ons would go up? My guess is we will probably be waiting until it hits $575k and we have a bit more variety in EU units, but I'm chomping at the bit to add a few more Forge Guard to my pledge. I loves me my stompy power armour units and can always use a few more.

Did they say if there's going to be a pledge manager to add on after the KS ends? I'm stretched thin now, but wil have more scratch later. And some of the terrain is hard to beat.

I guess I can throw in my 2 cents on the Marauders. I was fine with them as they were. Their GW-ness didn't bother me. That being said, seeing the old sculpts versus the new, modified ones, the old ones really looked bad. It's amazing what a few tweaks can do to change a figure. I know they mentioned that they based the figures' proportions more on the Marauder Warlord and I can really see it. He didn't seem to have the same shape of head as the standard Grunts. It jutted out more and had a more pronounced underbite. These guys seem to match up quite well with the Warlord. I'd actually like to see a picture of the running guy against the Warlord to see how well the measure up against one another.

Overall, I like how they look now a lot more. The Rippers though.... not so much. I think I'm going to use that money I'd put down for a spare on something else.

Just get some Kromlech mecha-armoured Orcs for Rippers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA0BYrCIrs4

I assume that just like Kings of War/Warpath, Mantic are going to be fine with people using their or other brands of figures for their games.

 Azazelx wrote:
Just get some Kromlech mecha-armoured Orcs for Rippers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA0BYrCIrs4

I assume that just like Kings of War/Warpath, Mantic are going to be fine with people using their or other brands of figures for their games.

Not so certain that will apply here. It all depends how LOS rules pan out. If even the tip of you gun makes it to where I can shoot you, they may want more control on how guys are posed. For that reason, I've refused to play by house rules that let people shoot at hands and feet on models in Necromunda. It's of my opinion, people's sculpts shouldn't be the determining factor on how hard or easy it is for a model to hide behind cover.

So if they are trying to put standards on how much a model sticks out, and ensure models of a certain type have xxxx amount of girth to them, it might get pretty unbalanced once the power gamers show up with the skinniest Sci-Fi orcs they can find, just so they aren't getting shot at as often.

It's partially why I feel the LOS rule needs adjustments made, but maybe they have a sculpting standard for each model, and that's part of their "intangible" stats. If Jake or Ronnie has issued such instruction, I suppose I'm okay with the rule, but that also mean outside models and major adjustments to official ones shouldn't be legal.

I am not so bothered with the LOS rules, I only dissagree with the base being used. Being able to use anypart of the model allows for the abstract of the models are constantly in motion, poking heads around corners etc.

As for people using skinny models. You could always overwatch. You can trigger the overwatch when they begin or end in an "Area of fire" LOS. which means you dont need to see them to shoot them. Well you can blaze away and try get their head(s) down. Also, dont forget a smaller model means if you can get to see it, its easier to see all of it to get that +2 for Clear Shot.

You can always move squares to try and get a LOS on them. You can move 4". Then depending how big the cover is it might have hidden a normal sized model.

I personally think that combat is a little too powerfull. The ability to move into a square and fight for free. Then do it again is a little powerfull. The whole group I play with feels this.

560k goal passed.

So what are your ideas on the beta rules?

I much prefer the activation changes, haven't looked too much into what the other differences is. I noticed LoS hasn't changed but to be honest I don't think that's up for debate as no Mantic game thus far has used anything different.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Honestly, if you still dislike the Marauders then make sure to tell Mantic. Because a ground-up resculpt is still on the table for them if people still don't like them.

That's true but like I said, it would take a miracle for me ever to like them. Besides, general consensus is that they are much improved and I have no desire to become that one whiny person goes on about it from now until the end of the campaign.

That being said however, I will whine and complain about not being able to switch starters for the duration of the Kickstarter...

The problem with the Orx fixes is they are good enough to be "acceptable" but still away from what they could have been.

At this point a full resculpt may hurt the kickstarter more than it could help.

I agree with the general consensus that the Orx fixes make the models ok, but still not worth purchasing if you had the choice. The Orx were never going to be my favorite faction either, and if I ran the zoo, they wouldn't be in Deadzone at all. But that's just my taste. I still think the Orx are a drag on the Strike Team ticket, but no longer a catastrophic one.

I am disappointed in Mantic as a company for settling for "good enough". It's clear that the majority of pledgers don't actually like the commandos, they just don't hate them anymore. But there aren't many (there are a few, always a few) people who are excited to be buying them. And Mantic should take that as market research, perhaps not ironclad but not worthless either, and a good indication that the Marauder faction isn't going to do very well at retail. I think Mantic should want to resculpt them not to satisfy "whiny pledgers", but out of standard business practice / greed: they want to make more money. These aren't throw-away units for a niche game, they're planning on using the Marauders as a crucial component of their Warpath armies. Why not invest in the models properly so they'll pay off later? The Kromlech models posted by Azazelx show what's possible - why didn't Mantic aim higher?

As a first time Mantic customer, it's apparent that they're moving towards higher sculpting standards. But it's also apparent that they're still in transition, and that high standards aren't held across the entire line. I have looked over the KOW sculpts coming in, and fantasy is not my thing, but if I were Azazelx I would be disappointed in them too. On balance, Deadzone is looking much better. There are some poor sculpts in the mix - I can't use include the Marauders and Plague 3rd gens - but there are also outstanding ones, and the good outweigh the bad right now by a high enough margin that I'm staying in. I also think that the Asterians and Forge Fathers are looking like good risks. The Asterians will be 3-d sculpted, so we'll get well-proportioned figures in dynamic poses, like the Enforcers. The Forge Fathers will probably be sculpted by hand, but as Mantic's leading line in the Warpath property, I don't think they can afford to have the FF look bad. I wouldn't be surprised if they'll be having Remy do them.

But as people have well articulated here many times already, they need to drop the fixed faction thing. If they do something similar in the Warpath KS, I won't participate. And putting up individual restic figures as high-priced add-ons with only the concept art for customers to go on is nonsensical. If there has to be a gamble involved in terms of what the final sculpt will actually look like, they need to sell those figures at a significant discount to move them.

But as people have well articulated here many times already, they need to drop the fixed faction thing.

This. I'd pay extra for this.

Cain nails it really... no matter what they do with the Orx, some people aren't going to want that faction.

Forgefathers would have been a more natural fit as the fourth faction, they're the most popular Warpath army.

I'm firmly of the opinion after the polite non-responses that the fixed faction thing isn't changing. Shame since I'm likely to drop Strike now as the more I look at it the more the only starter that looks worth painting to me is the Rebs.

Questions:

If I do express my dislike for the Orx on the KS comments, Will it be seen by anyone that matters or is it swept away?

Is there a better place to express my dislike?

And finally, does anyone know if the shooting sniper replaces the dancing sniper or are we still stuck with the dancer?

Well, don't think they'll switch out the Orx.

If you want to play Deadzone with Forge Fathers, you'll almost certainly have to get your sci-fi dwarfs from Mantic either way.

If you want to play Deadzone with Orx, you'll have a gazillion alternatives out there (straight GW Orks, Kromlech, etc..).

If Mantic wants to "kickstart" their own sci-fi green-skins - bumps along the road and all - they'll need to place them strategically "smart" into the pledge-structure.

Unlike DreadBall, Deadzone may potentially (!) be facing some severe "reverse-counts-as" risk from people that just grab the awsome "no-measuring-tape, "true-line-of-site", rule-set from Jake, but simply plug-in their dust-gathering collection of GW Space Marines, some Kromlech Orks, Necromunda-minis-as-Rebs, new-Wraithguard as Cyphers, etc.., at least until they know whether they truly dig the game or not.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Shame since I'm likely to drop Strike now as the more I look at it the more the only starter that looks worth painting to me is the Rebs.

I did this exact thing a while ago. I was Strike, but then the Orx greens came out. I was already not a fan of the Enforcers (they are decent for what they are, but I don't really like the whole armored marine aesthetic) and the plague looked silly except for the 1st Gen. Once the Marauders were shown to be sort of comic relief style instead of brutal monsters, I knew I was going for the Rebs and maybe the odd add-on.

 Zweischneid wrote:


If you want to play Deadzone with Forge Fathers, you'll almost certainly have to get your sci-fi dwarfs from Mantic either way.

Not sure why you would say that, I'm thinking Hasslefree Grymm would work great.







arm variants:

 CptJake wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:


If you want to play Deadzone with Forge Fathers, you'll almost certainly have to get your sci-fi dwarfs from Mantic either way.

Not sure why you would say that, I'm thinking Hasslefree Grymm would work great.

Those are brilliant!

 CptJake wrote:
Questions:

If I do express my dislike for the Orx on the KS comments, Will it be seen by anyone that matters or is it swept away?

Is there a better place to express my dislike?

And finally, does anyone know if the shooting sniper replaces the dancing sniper or are we still stuck with the dancer?

main KS comments and the last orx faction focus.

 recruittons wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:


If you want to play Deadzone with Forge Fathers, you'll almost certainly have to get your sci-fi dwarfs from Mantic either way.

Not sure why you would say that, I'm thinking Hasslefree Grymm would work great.

Those are brilliant!

Mantic had a colaboration with Hasslefree Minis for a while before Warpath came to be... I for one was hoping they get a license from Kev White and did the Grimm in plastic. I like some stuff from the FF, but the Grimm are the best sci-fi dwarf minis out there, by far

Can someone copy the old orx (or is it marauders?) and new orx pictures here? People keep referring to how the new is better than the old (but perhaps still needs work), but I don't know where to find that comparison...

go to page 89

So having never been around for a Mantic KS. How does the post-KS pledge-manager work? More specifically, "when" does that tend to make the rounds?

I'm increasingly thinking I am going to go in with a lesser total for the moment, and bolster my pledge later on.... unless their notion of "later" is actually right after the KS ends, which does me and the finances, little good. :-p

It's usually a week or two after the end date.

Does the Asterian starter set now come with 2 gun-thingies after that stretch goal?

Well the later on addition hurts the kickstarter pledgers, since it does not increase the kickstarter pledge so fewer unlocks.

But aside that and it is entirely understandable you may not be able to add stuff now, the pledge manager will come some time after the kickstarter ends usually a few months after when things are tooled and the need to know how many they need to make.

And you usually have a while before you need to send in your survey as well.

I'd also say "PM" them directly from within Kickstarter too, using the 'contact me' link on the front page.

Also, the Vermonter is dead nuts on - the Orx represent an ongoing problem for Mantic in terms of future sales as well.

If they looked more like the Dreadball versions, everyone would be a lot happier, and they'd probably sell a lot more - now and later on...

That would be a nice issue to either say on the KS page or in directly in the contact us.