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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/25 12:54:54
Subject: Whipcoil, Challenges, and Mind Shackle Scarabs
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Sinewy Scourge
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So with the new FAQ of how Whipcoil and MSS works, I'm just curious how these 3 would work together.
1. If I remember correctly, if things happen at the same time the player of that turn decides which one goes first correct? Can anyone give me a page reference for that?
2. So I have a wraith squad with a destroyer lord charge in and the Wraith was in base to his character, then the Challenges.
In this case would his initiative drop to 1 as well for the challenge or remain as full Init?
Thanks!
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40K:
5000+ points W/D/L: 10/0/6
4000+ points W/D/L: 7/0/4
1500+ points W/D/L: 16/1/4
Fantasy
4000+ points W/D/L: 1/1/2
2500+ points W/D/L: 0/0/3
Legends 2013 Doubles Tournament Champion |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/25 14:00:31
Subject: Whipcoil, Challenges, and Mind Shackle Scarabs
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Lieutenant Colonel
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pg nine is about things happening at same time being decided by owning turns player
dont have necron codex for the other stuff,
but AFAIK yes if a model was in BTB at the start with a spider w whipcoils, its now i 1
then you can choose to challenge
then you can choose to use MSS on a random model in BTB (only one now if challenge accepted)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/25 18:31:27
Subject: Whipcoil, Challenges, and Mind Shackle Scarabs
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Sinewy Scourge
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Ok, thanks for the reference to page num.
But that's the thing don't they all happen in the sub-combat phase though everything before combat?
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40K:
5000+ points W/D/L: 10/0/6
4000+ points W/D/L: 7/0/4
1500+ points W/D/L: 16/1/4
Fantasy
4000+ points W/D/L: 1/1/2
2500+ points W/D/L: 0/0/3
Legends 2013 Doubles Tournament Champion |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/25 19:47:15
Subject: Whipcoil, Challenges, and Mind Shackle Scarabs
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Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker
South Chicago burbs
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Whipcoils activate at the start of the fight subphase, before initiative 10.
Any enemy model in contact with the whipcoil at that moment drops their initiative to 1.
Models getting into base contact after that point do not suffer the penalty to initiative such as models getting into base contact during pile in moves.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/25 23:53:41
Subject: Re:Whipcoil, Challenges, and Mind Shackle Scarabs
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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The turn player gets to choose, so if you charged your opponent you could do 1. Whip coils, 2. Challenge, 3. Mindshackle Scarabs. But if your opponent charged you they could choose 1. Mindshackle Scarabs, 2. Challenge, 3. Whip Coil, thus having their character avoid both the whip coils and MSS.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/26 05:48:44
Subject: Whipcoil, Challenges, and Mind Shackle Scarabs
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Whip coils is not something that someone does it is an effect that just happens.
Therefore it is not affected by the rules on Page 9 about both players having to do something at the same time.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/26 06:45:51
Subject: Whipcoil, Challenges, and Mind Shackle Scarabs
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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DeathReaper wrote:Whip coils is not something that someone does it is an effect that just happens.
Therefore it is not affected by the rules on Page 9 about both players having to do something at the same time.
You still need to perform a check to see what is in base to base to use whip coils, which happens at the beginning of the fight sub-phase, at the same time as challenges and mindshackle scarabs. Yes, it's a stupid ruling, but it is the official ruling.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/03/26 06:47:11
Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/26 09:49:40
Subject: Whipcoil, Challenges, and Mind Shackle Scarabs
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I do agree with prince raven, say I charged a librarian with tac squad at a squad of wraiths with d lord with MSS, happens a lot for me!. as I charged I would say do MSS first as I would have put a random tac marine in btb with the Dlord, then challenge, as I have challenged (and assuming it is accepted) we then move the libby and dlord in btb, therefore my libby is then not in btb with whip coils which would be resolved last.
As it is my libby usually sports a force axe so pretty moot about the I1 but still could be useful.
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40kGlobal AOA member, regular of Overlords podcast club and 4tk gaming store. Blogger @ http://sanguinesons.blogspot.co.uk/
06/2013: 1st at War of the Roses ETC warm up.
08/213: 3rd place double teams at 4tk
09/2013: 7th place, best daemon and non eldar/tau army at Northern Warlords GT
10/2013: 3rd/4th at Battlefield Birmingham
11/2013: 5th at GT heat 3
11/2013: 5th COG 2k at 4tk
01/2014: 34th at Caledonian
03/2014: 3rd GT Final |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/26 11:23:59
Subject: Whipcoil, Challenges, and Mind Shackle Scarabs
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The easy solution don't buy whip coils they are way overpriced now that combat has changed from 5th to 6th.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/26 15:58:42
Subject: Re:Whipcoil, Challenges, and Mind Shackle Scarabs
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Sneaky Lictor
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Since the fight a challenge verbiage (pg 64) says the challenging units are considered not in base contact with any other unit, I would see them fighting at I2 regardless of where the wraiths were at the time of the challenge.
In the case of MSS we both roll at the same time and just hope our guy passes the ldr test, so the dice can decide the battle.
This is how a buddy and I play. It has happened multiple times now. ( we both run crons)
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- 4500pts: Shinzon Dynasty
3000pts: Hive Fleet Empusa
- 3000pts Rampagers |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/26 16:01:13
Subject: Whipcoil, Challenges, and Mind Shackle Scarabs
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Sinewy Scourge
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No but before Challenges are declared and on the initial charge, all of these seem to happen at the same time.
Also, this was a problem because my Destroyer Lord kept dying so he was in and out of combat, and my opponent's character was in BtB with the Wraith after my DLord died.
I would agree with the others, and that the player of that turn would decide what happens first.
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40K:
5000+ points W/D/L: 10/0/6
4000+ points W/D/L: 7/0/4
1500+ points W/D/L: 16/1/4
Fantasy
4000+ points W/D/L: 1/1/2
2500+ points W/D/L: 0/0/3
Legends 2013 Doubles Tournament Champion |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/26 18:31:30
Subject: Whipcoil, Challenges, and Mind Shackle Scarabs
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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PrinceRaven wrote: DeathReaper wrote:Whip coils is not something that someone does it is an effect that just happens.
Therefore it is not affected by the rules on Page 9 about both players having to do something at the same time.
You still need to perform a check to see what is in base to base to use whip coils, which happens at the beginning of the fight sub-phase, at the same time as challenges and mindshackle scarabs. Yes, it's a stupid ruling, but it is the official ruling.
Page 9 still does not apply as the whipcoils are not something you or your opponent have to do, it is just an effect that happens.
Unlike MSS which forces the 3D6 roll of a LD test.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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