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For years I have always looked for some "logical" way to explain why the Astartes are so good... Below is my personal justification on how Astartes can be seen as being as good as 2 to 3 IG, or 9 to 10 IG, or even 34 IG, depending on how you look at it. Bottom line: Unarmed SM are worth 2 to 3 IG, in powered armor they are worth 9 to 10 IG, and when looking at operational deployment, SM are worth about 30 to 34 IG. Anyway, click the spoiler and see if there are any big flaws in my logic. The tables might not come out the best since I don't know how to make a nice table in the post (willing to learn tho).
Spoiler:
The Adeptus Astartes tactical, operational and strategic capabilities on a unit by unit level are much greater than those possessed by other military organizations. This increased capability is based off the fact that individual marines are simply biologically superior, better equipped and more highly trained than any comparable military force.
The individual space marine is much stronger, tougher, intelligent and resilient. Going by the fluff we can figure that the average space marine is roughly 8 feet tall and 450 pounds. This will give them a benchpress of approximately 400 pounds, ON AVERAGE. They are also faster than average humans, generally twice as fast on average, giving them the capability to conduct a march at roughly 10 miles an hour with a combat load, which for a space marine (without armor) would be ~300 pounds of equipment, which is roughly twice the equipment that a normal human can carry. This gives them at least twice the combat endurance as other human units, which is generally 72 hours, but can be extended to 5 days… The capabilities of an unarmored space marine allow for operations in low light conditions (including night time operations) and thus will take no penalties to speed while operating at night, unlike normal troops.
A comparison of capabilities is shown in table 1 below.
The weaponry for a space marine will be a bolt pistol, a close combat weapon, bolt rifle, heavy bolter, or sniper rifle. In comparison, the bolter is a 20mm weapon with recoil compensation, automatic targeting, smart-link capabilities, laser target designator and fires either incendiary, high explosive, or armor piercing rounds. The main difference between bolt pistols, bolt rifles and heavy bolters are their range, rate of fire and internal ammunition capacity. In comparison with either laser rifles or current technology small arms, the bolter exists at the upper end of any comparable spectrum. A bolt offers terminal ballistics equivalent to that of current 20mm weapon systems, albeit with much shorter ranges except for the heavy bolter. The bolt pistol and bolt rifle offer comparable ranges with small arms of their class (heavy pistol, heavy rifle) that have been heavily modified for accuracy, but they are not in a separate class for either range or accuracy.
Sniper rifles for the Astartes would classify as anti-material rifles in other military organizations, offering accurate placement of heavy kinetic rounds on targets up to several thousand meters distant with low, or no signature. This allows the engagement of lightly armored vehicles at long distances with high PK on most biological targets with low possibility of accurate return fire.
The equipment of the space marine increases their capabilities as well. The base armor protection of an UNARMORED space marine is considerable when factoring in their increased muscle density, toughened skin, thickened bone, regenerative and clotting capabilities, mental resilience to avoid shock and the black carapace. These factors give an unarmored space marine the equivalent of class IIIA soft armor, which makes them all but immune to artillery fragmentation and pistol rounds. The standard armor package for scouts is equivalent to class IV hard armor and provides armor protection against all small arms and AP rounds, which reduces the casualty rates to almost negligible levels against small arms. Only multiple hits are capable of damaging space marines in armor, generally requiring 6 hits with a 5.56mm caliber weapon, 4 hits from a 7.62mm caliber weapon or 2 hits from a .50 caliber weapon to injure a space marine. Even when injured, a space marine heals at roughly 4 times the rate of human soldiers, thus even traumatic injuries can see survival rates of 98% and a return to active duty within days even from burns and deep penetrating wounds such as gunshots.
The standard Astartes powered armor provides even greater armored capabilities, increasing their armor protection up to taking multiple hits from heavy machine guns (14.5mm to 25mm caliber). The terminator armor increases this protection further. The standard Astartes powered armor is equivalent to a lightly armored wheeled tactical vehicle (FRAG IV equivalent), while the terminator suit is the equivalent of an infantry fighting vehicle, able to withstand multiple impacts from 20mm to 25mm armor piercing fin stabilized discarding sabot depleted uranium impacts.
The capabilities of a human vs a space marine in various levels of armor protection is shown in Table 2, below.
Without armor, space marines have low-light vision, which is the equivalent of NVG’s whereas with armor, space marines gain the benefits of full color thermal optics, laser range finder, ballistic computer, full navigational system (both GPS and INU capable), short, medium and long range LOS secure burst radio communications, full suites of tactical command and control software tools, short range radar, noise amplification and nullification capabilities, Full NBC protection, universal translators, video and audio recording, expert systems for many combat tasks such as electronic warfare, cyber capabilities, repair operations, and the ability to eat and void waste with only minimal time expenditure (~1 minute).
The final piece is the training of a space marine which is what truly allows the organization to outperform other military organizations. Each Astartes has a minimum of 7 years of training before engaging in their first battle. Due to this, they have the equivalent of five years of training (accounting for the surgery and recovery time). Since space marines operate on 4 hours of sleep or less normally (instead of 8), they have no “time off”, they have increased memory retention and are chosen for increased intelligence (with the minimum IQ generally being around 140), for every year of time, they have the equivalent of 4 times the ability of a normal human to engage in training. Thus the 5 (effective) years of training that a space marine receives prior to any mission is equivalent to 20 years of training and experience for normal human soldiers.
Each space marine is fully trained in all infantry centric tasks as well as those which are often considered to be special operations by other forces. Space marines can be inserted from space, air, ground or undersea vectors. They are all marksmen of expert caliber as well as unarmed combat experts. They can track, infiltrate and operate for days without saying a word, communicating only by their chapter’s unit specific sign language. They can survive indefinitely as long as there is sufficient food to forage. They can operate unaided in any terrestrial terrain from -100o F to +140o F and from 200m below sea level to ~9,000m above sea level. This means that a space marine can literally swim the English Channel or jog up Mount Everest every day for roughly 3 days in a row before they would be exhausted.
Their skills would include infantry, armor, artillery, piloting, naval ship operation, space ship operation, guerilla warfare, close quarters battle, boarding actions, intelligence collection and analysis, planning, maintenance and field expedient repair of all their organic weapon systems, tactical casualty care, fire support and logistics. Due to this training, and their ability to rapidly gain intelligence, plan, choose a course of action, and execute, the space marines have no need of dedicated staff positions. The ability for every space marine to operate all of their organic vehicles is also a benefit, and the fact that they are responsible for their own maintenance also reduces their need for logistic or maintenance support.
To fully understand the benefit of these gains, it is necessary to understand that space marines are capable of drastically reducing the required manpower for an operation. As an example, we will examine the manpower savings that can be realized. For a 3000 man imperial guard mechanized infantry regiment, the following personnel are not required by Astartes forces:
Administration and Staff: ~1000 There is no need for multiple layers of command authorities. The expert systems and data net capabilities of the armor allow for the rapid transmission of orders to any and all troops that require the information
Military Police/ Discipline: ~100 Space marines are not subject to discipline problems that are not solved by absolution or death. Battle brothers watch out for each other
Signal: ~200 Powered armor negates the need for special communications systems, as they are already built in and mobile
Chemical: ~50 Powered armor eliminates the need for special chemical troops.
Intelligence: ~300 space marines are fully qualified to gather, analyze, fuse and report all manner of intelligence and are trained in interrogation if necessary. The data sharing capabilities of the powered armor allow for rapid dissemination of all tactical data.
Engineers: ~100 Space marines are not defensive troops, but rather offensive troops and are fully trained on all breaching techniques via the use of thunder hammers, assault shields, chain fists and power weapons.
Maintenance: ~200 Space marines are responsible for the maintenance of their own equipment
Medical: ~200 While Astartes do require medical attention, an apothecary, in conjunction with Astartes powered armor and the inherent regenerative capabilities of a space marine is able to provide superior care to a human surgical team. This allows for a total manpower savings of 200 personnel since there is no requirement for transportation of the casualty from the location of injury to the point of treatment. Space marines either receive treatment and survive or they die immediately from trauma. A space marine who does not die within 30 seconds of injury has a 75% chance of recovery with only rudimentary first aid, and a 95% recovery rate when treated by an apothecary.
Transportation: ~200 space marines are mobile and do not require transportation, they will move themselves and their own equipment. This means that there are no dedicated drivers, gunners, vehicle commanders. There are troops and vehicles and the troops man any vehicles when necessary.
Logistics: ~200 space marines are responsible for planning and executing their own logistic resupply plans, the vast majority of which are delivered via orbital drops.
Thus space marines are able to have a manpower savings of roughly 1/3 while increasing the protection and firepower available. Thus for a mechanized infantry regiment of 3000 people has the combat power of 16 artillery pieces, 60 tanks, 60 armored fighting vehicles, 10 wheeled recon armored vehicles and 300 infantry. In comparison, a 1000 man space marine chapter fields 30 heavy tanks that double as troop transports, 50 heavy infantry that are the equivalent of tanks and 850 infantry that are the equivalent of armored fighting vehicles in firepower and tactical mobility.
If firepower can be rated as 6 for artillery, 5 for heavy tanks, 4 for tanks, 3 for armored fighting vehicles, 2 for wheeled recon armored vehicles and 1 for infantry, then the mechanized infantry force has a firepower of 956 with a manpower allotment of 3000 (.318 firepower per man). The Astartes force would have a firepower of 2900 with a manpower allotment of 1000 (2.9 firepower per man) which makes every space marine the equivalent of 9.12 Imperial Guard as a tactical unit. Thus a full chapter of Astartes have the same firepower capability of a full division of IG, which again holds true for the rough estimate of 1 AA = 10 IG.
In addition to the tactical power of the AA, there is also a strategic element. There is a specialized IG regiment for each role the IG is expected to pursue such as siege regiments, armored regiments, mechanized infantry regiments, light infantry regiments, special operations regiments, airborne regiments, air assault regiments, artillery regiments, amphibious/marine regiments, garrison regiments, and space assault regiments that specialize in boarding actions. Unlike those units, a space marine chapter is actually not specialized, but rather deploys with their ship configured to take any of those roles, although garrison troops is not a mission that any AA would stoop to perform. Although the extreme physical capabilities of a space marine make them the equivalent of 10 other troops in a tactical role, the ability of each chapter to fulfill the roles of up to 10 specialized IG regiments for strategic planning.
Thus, instead of having to get 6 regiments of assault troops, one regiment of siege troops, a regiment of artillery troops and two regiments of armored troops…a single space marine chapter can be tasked with that operation as the chapter can fulfill all of those roles in succession without the need to do anything other than transition into or out of vehicles, thus having one chapter of 1000 space marines actually take the strategic place of 10 IG regiments, making 1000 space marines the equivalent of 30,000 IG. This is the true worth of the Astartes.
In conclusion, the combined effects of genetic engineering, advanced technology and superior training make the AA the pinnacle of military technology, turning the average infantryman into the equivalent of an armored fighting vehicle and a squad of dismounted troops. On an individual level, the AA are the equivalent of two to three IG soldiers. With the addition of powered armor, the individual trooper becomes the equivalent of 9 to 10 normal IG soldiers. When the chapter is measured on a regimental level, however, each chapter can replace up to 30,000 normal IG troops, and when measured against the additional support requirements of 3 divisions (which is up to 1,000 additional troops for a Division HQ) and a full corps (another 1,000 troops for a Corps HQ), then each Astartes is worth up to 34 IG troops on a strategic scale, not to mention all of the additional logistical support that the Navy has to provide for the troops such as ammunition, food, casualty evacuation, etc.
Table 1:
Factor Human Space Marine
Speed/duration: 10 mph sprint/30 seconds 20 mph sprint/ 2 minutes
7 mph run/10 minutes 15 mph run/30 minutes
5 mph jog/ 1 hour 10 mph jog for 12 hours
4 mph march w/ load/10 hours 10 mph for 40 hours
2.5 mph walk w/ load/20 hours 5 mph for 60 hours
Combat Endurance 72 hours normal 7 days normal
5 days extended 15 days extended
Patrol Radius 2.5 miles per hour (day) 5 mph day or night
1 mile per hour (night)
If there is a flaw in my logic, point it out. If it is tl/dr...why are you posting a reply?
-STS
Grey Knights 712 points Imperial Stormtroopers 3042 points Lamenters 1787 points Xenomorphs 995 points 1200 points + 1790 points 770 points 369 points of Imperial Guard to bolster the Sisters of Battle
Kain said: "This will surely end in tears for everyone involved. How very 40k." lilahking said "the imperium would rather die than work with itself"
Yep but this can be equally matched by sisters AoF
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
Lot of supposition, very little facts. Also assumptions that relic-based technologies of 40K is inherently superior to modern military hardware, which is not suggested in the fluff that describes these technologies.
Also assumes that the SM do not require resupply or logistic support, which is patently false, as they have to schlep their arses to the combat theater themselves. You can't walk from Fenris to Armageddon.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Psienesis wrote: Lot of supposition, very little facts. Also assumptions that relic-based technologies of 40K is inherently superior to modern military hardware, which is not suggested in the fluff that describes these technologies.
Also assumes that the SM do not require resupply or logistic support, which is patently false, as they have to schlep their arses to the combat theater themselves. You can't walk from Fenris to Armageddon.
The Space Marines have their own Ships though, Battle Barges. I think alot of them are run by Servitors and Chapter Serfs, but even adding those in still makes them alot more mobile than the IG. I agree that the majority of 40k Tech may not be inherently superior to modern technology but I dont think you can argue the technology of an Adeptus Astartes. Power Armour and Bolters as described in the fluff are pretty hardcore.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also to the OP, this post was great! I really like and appreciate the work you put into it! I'm not a huge 40k expert, but I dont see any flaws after the first read-through.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/25 19:31:05
So long as the enemies of the Emperor still draw breath, there can be no peace.
I'm really not a fan of the tactical double speed thing, I know there's some disconnect between rules and fluff but in 25 years and a dozen games I don't think GW has ever once statted up marines as being notably faster than regular humans on a tactical level.
Their ability to go days without sleep would be a major multiplier on the daily rate however.
SerQuintus wrote: I'm really not a fan of the tactical double speed thing, I know there's some disconnect between rules and fluff but in 25 years and a dozen games I don't think GW has ever once statted up marines as being notably faster than regular humans on a tactical level.
Their ability to go days without sleep would be a major multiplier on the daily rate however.
I think they just keep the movement speeds relatively the same for balancing issues. Or maybe they arent twice as fast but because of their endurance they can travel twice as far?
So long as the enemies of the Emperor still draw breath, there can be no peace.
I doubt it was a balance thing, that didn't used to be a big issue. For example in 40k 2nd edition and Space Marine 1st edition the Predator was faster than a Rhino even tho better armoured and armed, yet Space Marines still had the same movement stat as mere humans, not even a fractional advantage like the Eldar.
Wow, thats interesting, definitely proves your point then. I think maybe their big advantage would be stamina and their ability to travel twice as far, or your example of not needing as much sleep as a normal human or some combinaiton of both. Although that isn't something youd be able to show on a gameboard.
So long as the enemies of the Emperor still draw breath, there can be no peace.
Psienesis wrote: Lot of supposition, very little facts. Also assumptions that relic-based technologies of 40K is inherently superior to modern military hardware, which is not suggested in the fluff that describes these technologies.
Also assumes that the SM do not require resupply or logistic support, which is patently false, as they have to schlep their arses to the combat theater themselves. You can't walk from Fenris to Armageddon.
The Space Marines have their own Ships though, Battle Barges. I think alot of them are run by Servitors and Chapter Serfs, but even adding those in still makes them alot more mobile than the IG. I agree that the majority of 40k Tech may not be inherently superior to modern technology but I dont think you can argue the technology of an Adeptus Astartes. Power Armour and Bolters as described in the fluff are pretty hardcore.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also to the OP, this post was great! I really like and appreciate the work you put into it! I'm not a huge 40k expert, but I dont see any flaws after the first read-through.
They do, yes, but the IG requires the IN because, ten thousand years ago, half the Space Marines lost their gak and decided to burn the house down. I'm not denying that the SM are awesome (they are), but a lot of their awesomeness comes from fluff writers simply stating "they're SM, they're awesome", because it's a plot contrivance (as are the plots where they die like flies, also a plot contrivance). Sure, their gear is top-notch for what exists in the Imperium, and perfectly fits with the brute-force approach of the SM... but, like the IG, they, too, require resupply and transport. That they handle it somewhat internally to their organization is somewhat besides the point.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Very well thought out post, I enjoyed. Excellent grasp of military logistics and organisation.
The biggest plot hole, with the Astartes, I've always thought, is that there's just so few of them. 40K writers really have no sense of scale... considering we have armies on the scale of millions on a single planet, it's not entirely clear how useful a single chapter, or a thousand of them, will be in the grand scale of the universe.
Sure, they're extremely effective when available, but still a mere drop in the ocean of the Guard.
Also, with the ability to deploy things like Titans...
DarthMarko wrote: Yep but this can be equally matched by sisters AoF
The AoF of the SoB makes them almost equivalent of the Astartes in small scale combat up to about platoon level, but the AA really shine when you get to Company and Battalion level operations. Granted, on the game board, it is hard to really show the effects of this for both game balace and scale, but if there was a wargame that took place in the 40K universe, the AA would get a lot of bonuses for their ability to operate for longer periods of time, rapidly shift roles and just more able to effectively command and control thier units.
-STS
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote: Very well thought out post, I enjoyed. Excellent grasp of military logistics and organisation.
The biggest plot hole, with the Astartes, I've always thought, is that there's just so few of them. 40K writers really have no sense of scale... considering we have armies on the scale of millions on a single planet, it's not entirely clear how useful a single chapter, or a thousand of them, will be in the grand scale of the universe.
Sure, they're extremely effective when available, but still a mere drop in the ocean of the Guard.
Also, with the ability to deploy things like Titans...
Agreed. The AA just don't have the manpower to do anything on a strategic scale. They have operational flexibility and mobility and tactical punch, but strategically, they are pretty useless, especially if it takes an entire planet to equip them with personnel and gear.
-STS
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SerQuintus wrote: I'm really not a fan of the tactical double speed thing, I know there's some disconnect between rules and fluff but in 25 years and a dozen games I don't think GW has ever once statted up marines as being notably faster than regular humans on a tactical level.
Their ability to go days without sleep would be a major multiplier on the daily rate however.
Well, I gave them additional speed due to the increased speed they get in Inquisitor and the write-ups in Death Watch (IIRC). I did the write up while at work yesterday and have none of my books with me (currently out of country) and it just sort of seemed to fit.
-STS
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Psienesis wrote: Lot of supposition, very little facts. Also assumptions that relic-based technologies of 40K is inherently superior to modern military hardware, which is not suggested in the fluff that describes these technologies.
Also assumes that the SM do not require resupply or logistic support, which is patently false, as they have to schlep their arses to the combat theater themselves. You can't walk from Fenris to Armageddon.
As for capabilities I was going under the assumption that autoguns = modern small arms, heavy stubbers = modern HMG, flak armor = Modern class III hard armor, and carapace armor = modern class IV armor. As for the vehicle piece, it is based on assumptions, BUT the Rhino is 30 tons, so I suspect that they are equivalent to a current MIFV (Bradley or BMP-3) and the Predator is 66 tons, so I suspect that they are at least as capable as a moderm MBT (M1E2 or Merkava).
My assumptions:
Astartes PA is better than class IV hard armor (carapace armor in game), and the next rated type of armor is vehicular armor (STANAG 4569) that kicks it up to stopping 14.5mm rounds, and that Terminator armor ups that to stopping 25mm rounds.
Another assumption is that the armor tech of the vehicles increases by an order of magnitude, thus a modern MBT firepower/armor can be matched by (some versions) of the Rhino, and be exceeded by (some versions) of the Predator.
As for the logistics question, I basically figured that the internal volume of a battle barge has to be filled with something other than a few companies of Space Marines, so I made the assumption that they would load up on ammo and equipment such as armored vehicles, logistics drop pods, thunderhawks, etc. Basically, the battle barge is too big to haul around a hundred marines, especially if it is not equipped for long range space engagements like IN ships are.
Thank you for everyone's input. I do appreciate it.
-STS
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/03/26 06:50:35
Grey Knights 712 points Imperial Stormtroopers 3042 points Lamenters 1787 points Xenomorphs 995 points 1200 points + 1790 points 770 points 369 points of Imperial Guard to bolster the Sisters of Battle
Kain said: "This will surely end in tears for everyone involved. How very 40k." lilahking said "the imperium would rather die than work with itself"
I dispute your claim about the strength of an astartes. There are humans today that can bench press 400 pounds and they're not 8 foot tall super soldiers. I imagine a space marine benching closer to double that, or possibly even a thousand pounds. Remember that their skeletons are reinforced, meaning that they can handle a great deal more weight without the risk of fractures.
There are a lot of books and stuff where it's clearly stated that the astartes are more the scalpel of the emperor while the IA is the mainforce nowadays. I mean they kinda get thrown away like nothing else but still they are the hammer and are used like it. But some missions/tasks require the AA instead of IG because of the enviroment, the opponent, the warp or a combination of all three. The wars for Armageddon are some nice examples where small numbers of SM's where used for special tasks. IG holds the line while small combat forces of Marines accomplish some special missions. Besides that the AA chapters are not meant to fight those meatgrinder wars except they are called space wolves and where on Fenris at the wrong time
On the topic question itself:
Take a human body, optimise it with future tech, train it for several hundred years, give him armor that makes his body even stronger and better, give him nice "super weapons" and see how hard he will outclass a normal soldier.
Boss, Raglun´z mob ´az redda trouserz dan uz!
Too bad, da mob got stinky about ... Dakka Gallery
On the topic of speed...going by some of the builds you can make in Inquisitor and the FF Games you can build the average Space Marine to be, on average twice as fast as a normal human...OR you can just go crazy with it like they show here: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15141246/
As for the strength, I was going by the rules, again, of the FF and Inquisitor RPG's where you are about twice as strong as a normal human, stat-wise.
Granted...if you are going with the fluff, then only like the top 1% of a planetary population can be space marines, so really, you can start with people in the top 10% statwise and build from there, so yes, you can have marines that are insanely strong, which would seem to indicate that they would also be quite fast (sprinting) due to the large amount of fast twitch muscle fiber AND they would be able to keep up the pace due to their enhancements. So, as a nod to balance, I just went with x2 strength, and x2 speed...for the "average".
-STS
Grey Knights 712 points Imperial Stormtroopers 3042 points Lamenters 1787 points Xenomorphs 995 points 1200 points + 1790 points 770 points 369 points of Imperial Guard to bolster the Sisters of Battle
Kain said: "This will surely end in tears for everyone involved. How very 40k." lilahking said "the imperium would rather die than work with itself"
The Space Marines are so good because they usually choose their missions themself. They select an important target and strike it with overwhelming force, then let the Imperial Guard mop up anything that's left (which could be whole regiments of troops now without their highest command echelon). Then the Imperial propaganda department takes this one strike and spreads the story about how the direct intervention of the Emperor's Finest changed the war.
On the grand scale of things they're useless, but as a rapid strike force they can take out something important. And as propaganda they're priceless.
slade the sniper wrote: As for the strength, I was going by the rules, again, of the FF and Inquisitor RPG's where you are about twice as strong as a normal human, stat-wise.
The average Spehss Mehreen without armour, going by the FFG rules, can backpack 675 kilograms, aka 1,485 pounds. By comparison, the average human, can only push 144 kg/316 pounds.