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Alright I was trying to figure out the size of the IoM in Warhammer 40k and I came up with a simple equation for doing so. I'm less curious about the specific number as much as I am about whether you think this is too big, too small, or just about the right size for what you imagined the IoM to be. Also let me know if you think my tithe is way off.

1. I assumed the avg tithe for the IG was about 5% a planets population at any given time.

2. I assumed the avg planet population was about 1 billion (this could easily be far too small but I imagined agri and death worlds would be very small versus the massive hive worlds)

3. The IG Codex references trillions of guardsman so I assumed the IG was 3 trillion

4. I took 3tril divided by 50mil (5% of 1 bil) and arrived at 60,000 planets.

Sixty thousand sounded just about right to me as far as the IoM but I think the avg planet pop could easily be a lot bigger which would drive down the number of planets considerably.

There's a lot of assumes in there.

The only real number you can calculate is how many capital ships the Imperial Navy operates:

1.) The Galaxy is stated to be ninety-thousand light years across and fifteen-thousand light years thick
2.) On average, a Sector is a cube whose sides are each 200 light years
3.) on average, an Imperial Navy Battefleet (1 per sector) is 50 to 75 capital ships (Cruiser class or above).

Have fun with the math, I don't feel like it.

And yeah the calculation isn't very precise considering the IoM doesn't rule over the entire galaxy.

 pretre wrote:
There's a lot of assumes in there.

Of course. We have few empirical stats (except that the IG ranges in the trillions) so I'm forced to rely on an extended number of premises. Tha'ts why I mentioned the possible problems with several of those premises.

I believe it is stated somewhere in the fluff that the IoM is over a million words....

 Thaanos wrote:
I believe it is stated somewhere in the fluff that the IoM is over a million words....

50 trillion IG using my equation then. Damn. Space Marines never seemed so irrelevant....

 Thaanos wrote:
I believe it is stated somewhere in the fluff that the IoM is over a million words....

I think that's the space marine codex. It basically states there are 1,000 chapters each with 1,000 marines giving us 1 marine per planet....

60k planets is way too small.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shlazaor wrote:
50 trillion IG using my equation then. Damn. Space Marines never seemed so irrelevant....

Marines are simply the shock troops. You'd rarely see as many marines in a battle as is common in the tabletop game. They drop in, destroy anything that would be too difficult for the guard, then leave. Most of the time it's just a handful (squad size or less) that go in. Only on rare occasions, such as a Black Crusade, do you see marines operate in any sizable force. The vast majority of citizens, or even guardsmen, have never seen a marine in person.

Complicating this are that the SM chapters essentially operate as their own masters frequently doing whatever the feth they want. From an IoM perspective I think they are pretty much just tolerated as poster boys because completely removing them would be problematic.

 Thaanos wrote:
I believe it is stated somewhere in the fluff that the IoM is over a million words....

Was explained in 3rd ed Rulebook too.
Page 114 - 115.
Worlds of the Imperium.

Hive worlds 140.000+
Population 100.000.000.000 - 500.000.000.000

civilized Worlds 350.000+
Population 15.000.000 - 10.000.000.000

Agri worlds 200.000+
Population 15.000 - 1.000.000

Stone age world 80.000+
Population 100.000 - 5.000.000

Lifeless world 20.000
Population .... 0 .....

death world 60.000+
Population 1.000 - 15.000.000

Research-base 10.000+
Population 100 - 500.000

Feudal world 40.000+
Population 10.000.000 - 500.000.000

Forge world 100.000+
Population 1.000.000 - 15.000.000.000

Sum: 1.000.000 worlds ( but theres a + at the end sometimes so..)

The number of hive worlds seems to have fallen dramatically by 5th edition.

The Hive Worlds of the Imperium are classed as having upper limit population of 500 billion (3rd edition 40K rulebook, p. 114). The 5th edition rulebook on p. 115 estimates there to be 3.238 * 10^4 or 32,380 hive worlds in the Imperium. If all 1,000,000 worlds of the Imperium were hive worlds with 500 billion people that is 5 * 10^17. Put another way, 5 million billion people, or 500 quadrillion people. That is an UPPER limit for the Imperium's population because we know that not all worlds are maximum population hive worlds.

Minea from that page in the 5th edition rulebook is described as a typical example of a hive world, and it has 154 billion population, well under the 500 billion maximum. Assume we are still generous and give all hive worlds a population of 250 billion to account for less populated worlds elsewhere in the Imperium. 32,380 hive worlds of 250 billion population each is 8.095 * 10^15.

Interesting. I was always under the impression the EoM was supposed to be the dominant presence in the Galaxy however. There are 200 to 400 billion stars in the Milky Way most will have planets are dust/asteroid belts worth mining. With only 1 million worlds directly controlled by man. How could that claim be true?

Harriticus wrote:
3.) on average, an Imperial Navy Battefleet (1 per sector) is 50 to 75 capital ships (Cruiser class or above).

Its been speculated that the Imperial Navy has reserve forces/units waiting IIRC.

Shlazaor wrote:

2. I assumed the avg planet population was about 1 billion (this could easily be far too small but I imagined agri and death worlds would be very small versus the massive hive worlds)

A colony world that is not even officially an Imperial colony worlds has a population of 3 billion. This comes from the Rogue Trader adventure: The Frozen Reaches.

vim_the_good wrote:Interesting. I was always under the impression the EoM was supposed to be the dominant presence in the Galaxy however. There are 200 to 400 billion stars in the Milky Way most will have planets are dust/asteroid belts worth mining. With only 1 million worlds directly controlled by man. How could that claim be true?

Its the largest empire in the current era of 40k.

 vim_the_good wrote:
Interesting. I was always under the impression the EoM was supposed to be the dominant presence in the Galaxy however. There are 200 to 400 billion stars in the Milky Way most will have planets are dust/asteroid belts worth mining. With only 1 million worlds directly controlled by man. How could that claim be true?

You're underestimating the Adepus Mechanicus' ability to mine a dead rock. They don't have to "claim" the planet in the official count since they can strip it clean and leave no one so little time it's barely worth mentioning.

The "million" worlds of the Imperium are habited.

 vim_the_good wrote:
Interesting. I was always under the impression the EoM was supposed to be the dominant presence in the Galaxy however. There are 200 to 400 billion stars in the Milky Way most will have planets are dust/asteroid belts worth mining. With only 1 million worlds directly controlled by man. How could that claim be true?

To quote Monty Python...

Explain the logic underlying that conclusion. (The bold-font part)

Seriously??

To quote Monty Python “Ok”

There are 200-400 billion starts in the Milky Way.
It is apparent through modern observations that plants are quite common.
Where so you normally find Natural resources??? (Emperor doo doo does not count )
The imperium needs unimaginable amounts of natural resources to fuel its war machine.
You only have to look at real world politics to understand the strategic value of natural resource deposits and how fiercely they will be fought over.
Therefor any planet or asteroid belt rich in natural resources becomes a strategic asset.

Hope that simplifies things for you

Math is not fun.

Yeah but to say that a planet that can be mined is one that will also be permanently inhabited is a bit far fetched as well. Seeing as how low the chances are that a star will have a planet that could sustain life, even with the 'technologies' of the grimdark that wouldn't effect the numbers tremendously. So I would say that having the number of inhabited planets in the order of millions is acceptable, but hey I'm no astronomer so this is just my opinion on something I'm pretty sure no-one could make an accurate estimate about.
The main thing though back to the OP is, are you trying to guesstimate the number of planets or people in the IoM?
^^ disagree, sometimes maths is fun

1 million dollars (austin powers/dr evil)...
there'd be close to or over a million worlds under mans dominion. those nearby a probably worlds being conquored, and mined, leaving the other already existing worlds within the EOM/IOM free to whatever number of populace resides there. it is easy to assume that there are atleast 1 million worlds upto 1.5-2 million worlds. taking into account forge worlds and worlds orbiting a forge world. the worlds orbitting the forgeworld have a high chance of having low to non-existant populations beside the endless tide of servitor manual labourer's toiling endlessly. if there are say 72 capital ships, atleast 2 or 3 per subsector then the population is much higher, once you account for the servitors and other non-imperial citizens living in imperial space. remember not everyone in the IOM is a imperial citizen. so there could literally be any number of population capacity of a starsystem-subsector and the IOM as a whole, as well as the density of worlds and the population of them in the 40k universe. best bet if it cannot be figured out (i am bad at math) then maybe try to find out from a games developer (i am sure atleast one possibly stops in every now and again- for idea's)

 vim_the_good wrote:
Interesting. I was always under the impression the EoM was supposed to be the dominant presence in the Galaxy however. There are 200 to 400 billion stars in the Milky Way most will have planets are dust/asteroid belts worth mining. With only 1 million worlds directly controlled by man. How could that claim be true?

The simple explanation is that that part of fluff is decades old. It sounded impressive at the time, and has not been changed since then. Despite our little improved ability to make sense of our surrounding galactic environment.