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Allied Independent Characters. Can they start the game inside of an allied transport vehicle?

As in, can my Allied HQ start the game inside a rhino or drop pod with my original units?

Maybe I just missed this somewhere, but any help would be appreciative.

Allies can never ride in each other's transports. Bottom left (ignoring the "Forging a Narrative" box) page 112.

IMO it is not so clear at least with ICs and Battle Brothers.

Per the IC rules, the IC, if joined to a unit, is a normal member of that unit for all rule purposes, though they still follow the rules for ICs. So if (for example) a SM Captain joins an IG squad, he is a normal member of an IG unit for all rule purposes. Therefore, he would be able to embark into an IG transport.

 Happyjew wrote:
IMO it is not so clear at least with ICs and Battle Brothers.

Per the IC rules, the IC, if joined to a unit, is a normal member of that unit for all rule purposes, though they still follow the rules for ICs. So if (for example) a SM Captain joins an IG squad, he is a normal member of an IG unit for all rule purposes. Therefore, he would be able to embark into an IG transport.

Are allied ICs allowed to embark?
Is the attached IC required to follow IC rules?

rigeld2 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
IMO it is not so clear at least with ICs and Battle Brothers.

Per the IC rules, the IC, if joined to a unit, is a normal member of that unit for all rule purposes, though they still follow the rules for ICs. So if (for example) a SM Captain joins an IG squad, he is a normal member of an IG unit for all rule purposes. Therefore, he would be able to embark into an IG transport.

Are allied ICs allowed to embark?
Is the attached IC required to follow IC rules?

There is no rule saying an IC cannot embark a transport (barring unit type or certain restictions such as wearing Terminator armour). There is a restriction on battle-brothers not being able to embark into allied transports. (I think we can agree with both of those). The problem is the rules for joining a unit says that the IC is a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes (or something to that effect away from book). It dds on that they still follow the rules for ICs. Since the restriction is on allies and not the IC rule, then for all rule purposes would override the ally rule.

I've gone through the IC rules and "IC's & Transports", "For all rules purposes" seems to cover IC + unit embarking together (or starting together inside), but if the squad were already embarked and the IC attempted to embark that would presumably be denied (equally if the IC attempted to embark alone).

Quanar wrote:
I've gone through the IC rules and "IC's & Transports", "For all rules purposes" seems to cover IC + unit embarking together (or starting together inside), but if the squad were already embarked and the IC attempted to embark that would presumably be denied (equally if the IC attempted to embark alone).

This much I agree with. Furthermore, if the unit were to leave, the IC has to disembark as well. Of course this is all assuming that the IC can embark in the first place. As it stands I play Nids so no allies there and Eldar without allies so this doesn't affect me (yet).

 Happyjew wrote:
The problem is the rules for joining a unit says that the IC is a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes (or something to that effect away from book). It dds on that they still follow the rules for ICs. Since the restriction is on allies and not the IC rule, then for all rule purposes would override the ally rule.

The IC rules say that he counts as a part of the unit for all rules purposes, yes.

But the Allies rules don't care whether or not he is a part of the unit. The rule forbidding riding in a transport doesn't refer to units at all. It simply says that Battle Brothers may not ride in Allied transports.

Whether or not the IC is a part of the unit, he is still an ally.

Examples of things that being part of a unit means:

1) Must remain in coherency.
2) Move together
3) Fire together, at the same target

Examples of things that merely being part of a unit does not change:

1) Name
2) Profile
3) Individual special rules possessed by the model (however many special rules affect all models in the unit)
4) Allied status
5) Equipment

Really, Happyjew, merely being part of a unit simply does not extend to the various things you suggest it as extending to. It means that you use the rules for how a unit behaves. It does not mean the model suddenly becomes a guardsman, with a guardsman profile, guardsman equipment, guardsman (lack of) special rules, and so on.

 insaniak wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
The problem is the rules for joining a unit says that the IC is a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes (or something to that effect away from book). It dds on that they still follow the rules for ICs. Since the restriction is on allies and not the IC rule, then for all rule purposes would override the ally rule.

The IC rules say that he counts as a part of the unit for all rules purposes, yes.

But the Allies rules don't care whether or not he is a part of the unit. The rule forbidding riding in a transport doesn't refer to units at all. It simply says that Battle Brothers may not ride in Allied transports.

Whether or not the IC is a part of the unit, he is still an ally.

I agree with Insaniak. The pg 112 rule is very specific about not being able to embark in transport vehicles; which is only 2 sentences down from the rule allowing units to be joined by IC. The "No" rule also starts off with "However,.." meaning it is overriding some of the statements before it.

I think insaniak is right. Whether the IC is part of an allied unit or not, he doesn't lose his status as a BB. And the rule is very specific that BBs can't embark on allied transports. No relevant exceptions are given for this so that rule stands on its own I think. JMHO....

Just because an IC is considered part of a unit does not remove any other restrictions against them being able to be embarked on a vehicle. For example, an IC that is riding a bike can be joined to an infantry unit but doing so would not suddenly allow him to be embarked on a transport with them.

So no, joining a unit does not suddenly remove the restriction of an allied IC not being allowed to embark onto an allied transport.

Thanks for everyone's input.
I agree now that they cannot at all. Sadly.