Arizona will jail you for using the wrong bathroom.

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**hotsauceman1**

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/20/arizona-bill-would-jail-transgender-people-for-using-the-wrong-bathroom/

Republican legislators in Arizona are attempting to pass legislation that forces transgender people to only use public restrooms, dressing rooms and showers associated with the gender listed on their birth certificate. According to the Associated Press, conservative lawmakers are proposing the legislation in response to a human rights bill passed by the city of Phoenix which prohibits gender identity discrimination in public accommodations.

Republican state Rep. John Kavanagh of Phoenix is leading the charge to make it a criminal offense for transgender people to use public restrooms not associated with their birth gender.

According to U.K. paper The Independent, violation of the new law would be a class 1 misdemeanor, punishable by fines as high as $4,000 and up to six months in prison.

Gay state Rep. Tom Simplot told the Independent, “This kind of extremist legislation is exactly what brings criticism to Arizona and compromises our work to make Phoenix an accepting and competitive city.”

Activists say that opponents of the human rights bill’s choice to characterize their legislation as “the bathroom bill” is inflammatory, as is their decision to stoke fears of sexual predation.

Simplot said the bill would criminalise the “very nature” of being transgender, adding “they’re creating a problem that doesn’t exist.”

UPDATE: Raw Story spoke with Mara Keisling, director of the National Center for Transgender Equality. Keisling said the new legislation “clearly has to do with the anti-discrimination law” enacted in Phoenix, “which is about people being able to work, people being able to be fully part of society.”

“These (anti-discrimination) laws are in effect in more than 160 cities and 16 states,” said Keisling, and that the problem of sexual predation on minors that the discriminatory policy alleges to address, “isn’t happening anywhere. It just doesn’t occur. It’s one of the terrible things that opponents of equality always raise in hopes of scaring people.”

**Goliath**

Is there any point to this bill beyond "eww, trans people"?

**d-usa**

Goliath wrote:
Is there any point to this bill beyond "eww, trans people"?

No.

**sebster**

As the battle over gay rights looks to be reaching a point where full and proper recognition is becoming inevitable, the battle is quickly moving to transgender issues.

It's very sad that a lot of people feel this powerful need to find some group of people who aren't like themselves and then act mean towards them.

**d-usa**

My wife used to do a lot of work in the GLBT community back in 2005 and transgender/intersex folk used to face a lot of discrimination from both the straight population and the gay/lesbian folks in the community.

**azazel the cat**

I've never understood what the problem was with European-style unisex bathrooms. Completely bypasses this problem.

**Wyrmalla**

Stupid point, but what if their "birth sex's" toilet's are out of order and they use the opposite's instead? Would a man going into a woman's toilet's not be charged, but a transgender doing the same be?

I'd be surprised if this passed as its pretty blatant discrimination, ie specifically referring to transgenders instead of society as a whole. Hey black people we're passing a law so you have to sit at the back of the bus... =P

**sebster**

d-usa wrote:
My wife used to do a lot of work in the GLBT community back in 2005 and transgender/intersex folk used to face a lot of discrimination from both the straight population and the gay/lesbian folks in the community.

Yep. The last place you'll find help is from the group who just won their own equality. It's very sad.

**MrMoustaffa**

I'll fully admit that I don't really see the appeal to being transgendered or anything, but this is just ridiculous. Are people really this afraid of those they don't understand?

**d-usa**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
I'll fully admit that I don't really see the appeal to being transgendered or anything, but this is just ridiculous.

Well, I think it goes in gradients. It goes from people who simply "like" being the other sex, to people who just deep down psychologically feel (not as in psychological sickness) that they are not the gender that they were born with. It's not as much that being the other appeals to them, its that they truly feel through and through that they are not what they are born to be.

Then you throw in the true intersex people who were born with at least partial reproductive organs from both genders, and sometimes have both an ovary and a testicle, that might have an almost completely genetic makeup of a woman but the doctor at birth decided that it would be easier to cut things into a boy than a girl. And once puberty hits stuff just gets more complicated.

Are people really this afraid of those they don't understand?

Yup.

**KalashnikovMarine**

So.... even if someone's had their surgery, and are in fact biologically male or female they'd have to go by their birth certificate still>

I honestly think the fight on trans issues is going to be even worse then gay/lesbian rights... it's a pretty difficult concept for a lot of people to wrap their heads around, I'll be the first to admit it's still a little beyond me...

**Peregrine**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
I'll fully admit that I don't really see the appeal to being transgendered or anything, but this is just ridiculous. Are people really this afraid of those they don't understand?

It's not about "appeal", it's about a brain/body mismatch. The common situation is where something goes wrong in development and you end up with a person who has the physical body of one gender and the brain (including the mental "map" of how their body is supposed to be) of the other, so the goal is to do as much as possible (living as their brain gender, eventually hormones and surgery to fix the body) to make the physical line up with their mental gender identity. Being transgendered is just a temporary state that happens because the change takes time, the end result is just a normal man/woman (or at least as close as our technology can get).

This is entirely separate from things like dressing up in opposite-gender clothing for sexual purposes, which is a temporary act, not a permanent identity change. The idea of someone dressing up as the opposite gender for the thrill of sneaking into the wrong bathroom is purely a social-conservative strawman that doesn't really exist.

**reds8n**

azazel the cat wrote:
I've never understood what the problem was with European-style unisex bathrooms.

It's a bit of a trek though isn't it ?

... oohhh

**Dreadclaw69**

This seems like either backlash, or preparing the ground for the start of a focused campaign on the transgendered. Forgive my ignorance but in Arizona if you undergo gender reassignment can you legally change your gender too?

reds8n wrote:
It's a bit of a trek though isn't it ?

... oohhh

**Rented Tritium**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
So.... even if someone's had their surgery, and are in fact biologically male or female they'd have to go by their birth certificate still>

I honestly think the fight on trans issues is going to be even worse then gay/lesbian rights... it's a pretty difficult concept for a lot of people to wrap their heads around, I'll be the first to admit it's still a little beyond me...

It sounds like you're still way ahead of the rest of the population, though.

**Frazzled**

Whats interesting is that, if this is the next great pending civil rights issue in the USA, then we've come far indeed from the bad old days.

AMERRRRIKA HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

**Steve steveson**

d-usa wrote:
My wife used to do a lot of work in the GLBT community back in 2005 and transgender/intersex folk used to face a lot of discrimination from both the straight population and the gay/lesbian folks in the community.

Unfortunatly it is often (not always) worse from the LGB community. Many of them seem to have a big problem with trans people. It seems, from what I have known from the few trans people I have known in my time, that gay and lesbian people are just as biased as the rest of the world but feel they can get away with being more vocal. This is not all gay and lesbians but the small minority, just like the small homophobic minority.

**MeanGreenStompa**

Oh look, Arizona's being a medieval douche again...

**Rented Tritium**

Steve steveson wrote:
d-usa wrote:
My wife used to do a lot of work in the GLBT community back in 2005 and transgender/intersex folk used to face a lot of discrimination from both the straight population and the gay/lesbian folks in the community.

Unfortunatly it is often (not always) worse from the LGB community. Many of them seem to have a big problem with trans people. It seems, from what I have known from the few trans people I have known in my time, that gay and lesbian people are just as biased as the rest of the world but feel they can get away with being more vocal. This is not all gay and lesbians but the small minority, just like the small homophobic minority.

Same with bisexuals, though that has gotten a lot better in the last bit.

**Steve steveson**

azazel the cat wrote:
I've never understood what the problem was with European-style unisex bathrooms. Completely bypasses this problem.

I was talking about this with my wife last night oddly enough. We came to the conclusion that in principal there is no problem with this, but until the average woman works out how to go in a reasonable time it won't work

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rented Tritium wrote:
Steve steveson wrote:
d-usa wrote:
My wife used to do a lot of work in the GLBT community back in 2005 and transgender/intersex folk used to face a lot of discrimination from both the straight population and the gay/lesbian folks in the community.

Unfortunatly it is often (not always) worse from the LGB community. Many of them seem to have a big problem with trans people. It seems, from what I have known from the few trans people I have known in my time, that gay and lesbian people are just as biased as the rest of the world but feel they can get away with being more vocal. This is not all gay and lesbians but the small minority, just like the small homophobic minority.

Same with bisexuals, though that has gotten a lot better in the last bit.

Yep, that too. You would have thought the whole of the LGBT comunity would be accepting of itself, but no... People will always find a reason to pick on those who are "different", no matter how "diffrent" they are themselves.

**Frazzled**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Oh look, Arizona's being a medieval douche again...

I think part of this, is a reaction to a recent something from the Dept. of Education recently mandating equal access for GLTRSBORTYPORREEEs for sports - to the extent of opening up showers etc.

But you know, its really hot in Arizona. This makes you do things you won't rationally do.

**Rented Tritium**

Why does arizona have sports at all? That sounds like a bad idea in that heat.

**Frazzled**

Rented Tritium wrote:
Why does arizona have sports at all? That sounds like a bad idea in that heat.

Yep.

**Ouze**

I wish all the fiscal conservatives down in Arizona would tell their legislators to stop wasting taxpayer money on such foolish, meanspirited, and pointless legislation. Maybe address the fact you have the highest dropout rate in the nation, or that you're 7th in the nation for families living in poverty, or the third highest in the nation with uninsured children?

**KingCracker**

sebster wrote:
As the battle over gay rights looks to be reaching a point where full and proper recognition is becoming inevitable, the battle is quickly moving to transgender issues.

It's very sad that a lot of people feel this powerful need to find some group of people who aren't like themselves and then act mean towards them.

Ive never agreed with something youve said more. Completely agree.

**Frazzled**

I'd agree if Iever saw such in real life. In the Real World (TM), we're seriously getting into the weeds here.

First World problems.

**Kilkrazy**

Yeah but Frazzled, it is a problem that doesn't yet exist and the legislators are trying to create it!?!?!?

**Frazzled**

Actually this is what I was thinking of.
http://schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/25/schools-must-provide-sports-for-students-with-disabilities-u-s-department-of-education-says/

Thats clearly not it. I don't know what they are on about. At least they aren't New Mexico.

**Alfndrate**

I've got a buddy from high school that's FTM (was identifying as a girl up until he was 20). Atm he's getting monthly Testosterone shots, and while I don't understand it*, he's saving up his pennies for gender reassignment surgery. He's definitely happier identifying as a male than he was as a girl, and it actually saddens me that this is even being considered as a law...

*sigh* It was humorous when he was learning to pee standing up... but that'd be a story for him to tell...

Also, what happens if you're a dad and you're out with your toddler daughter and you've got to change her diaper. Can you get jail time since you're responsible for her, and you took her into a men's room to change her diaper?

* -

Spoiler:

**kronk**

sebster wrote:
As the battle over gay rights looks to be reaching a point where full and proper recognition is becoming inevitable, the battle is quickly moving to transgender issues.

Sadly, enough hasn't been done yet for the G&L community. Only 21 states have outlawed discrimination based on sexual orientation.

Most states still don't.

Linky. Yes, it's a wiki, but still good information.