Tyranid Origin Theory

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**2x210**

What if they wernt created by the Old Ones, but are a Old One.

The Hive Mind is a singualr thing in the Warp so what if it was an especially powerful Old One who fled to the warp and slowly turned into the Hive Mind. He devours life because he is pissed at the whole universe for the Old One's all dying and he getting cast out.

Just my crazy 10guy ramblings

**Kovnik Obama**

2x210 wrote:
What if they wernt created by the Old Ones, but are a Old One.

The Hive Mind is a singualr thing in the Warp so what if it was an especially powerful Old One who fled to the warp and slowly turned into the Hive Mind. He devours life because he is pissed at the whole universe for the Old One's all dying and he getting cast out.

Just my crazy 10guy ramblings

Except the Hive Mind isn't a singular thing either. It's described as a gestalt consciousness. A gestalt is the essence of a coherent and cohesive whole, different from the sum of it's parts.

Coherently with that description, the Nids don't exists because of the Hive Mind, it's the Hive Mind that exists because of the Nids.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Selym wrote:
Kovnik Obama wrote:
Pilau Rice wrote:

And I agree, but does that mean we cannot discuss and investigate possibilities because we don't know about them? There are supposedly a 1000 Chapters of Astartes, most we don't know about. Should we not then created our own ones in case we make something that someone doesn't like?

No. This is why I said Nids need to remain unknown and unfathomable. IMO, there are no possibilities, no avenue of investigation that will not result into making Nids crappy.

Fix'd

As of now, the options explored in this thread can be resumed as :

a) The nids got created like every other race, decided to flee the universe, but then, lol, decided to come back. What would be the point of this explanation, except creating a useless link to the existing creation lore?
b) The nids ARE an Old One. DUN DUN DUNNNN. This creates more problems than it solves, and again, only serves to provide us with a useless twist.
c) The nids were created by the Emperor. Lol wut? I don't even.

Yes, this is my opinion. That's implied in any discussion that doesn't boil down to an enumeration of scientific facts. But opinions can be evaluated, even in regards to things like fiction. How many liked the explanation that the Force was the result of the level of midi-chlorians in the blood? Not fething many. If your explanation of the origin of the Nids only serves to introduce some poor twist in regards of pre-existing material, then it's a bad explanation.

**AegisGrimm**

I certainly think that Tyranids are simply as extra-galactic race. The numbers of Tyranid creatures who seem to "have been here for a long time" like Genestealers, Kraken and even further back Zoats, are explained away by simply saying they were isolated scouts that were part of the forerunning tendrils of the hive fleet. They have had thousands of years to get established before the main waves showed up, so they look like they "have always bee here" to short-sighted races. In that time their genetic material could have been spread over quite a few planets and races.

Some, like genestealers, manage to migrate quite effectively. Others like how Kraken are rumored to be Tyranid-like, were stranded on a single planet and after so long "appear" to be native fauna.

**Phonics**

AegisGrimm wrote:
I certainly think that Tyranids are simply as extra-galactic race. The numbers of Tyranid creatures who seem to "have been here for a long time" like Genestealers, Kraken and even further back Zoats, are explained away by simply saying they were isolated scouts that were part of the forerunning tendrils of the hive fleet. They have had thousands of years to get established before the main waves showed up, so they look like they "have always bee here" to short-sighted races. In that time their genetic material could have been spread over quite a few planets and races.

Some, like genestealers, manage to migrate quite effectively. Others like how Kraken are rumored to be Tyranid-like, were stranded on a single planet and after so long "appear" to be native fauna.

Kraken were around in the Horus heresy and beyond. I can verify this if you wish. Can we not have even more theories in the thread.

Lolwut: Emporer makes tyranids?

**Selym**

Phonics wrote:
AegisGrimm wrote:
I certainly think that Tyranids are simply as extra-galactic race. The numbers of Tyranid creatures who seem to "have been here for a long time" like Genestealers, Kraken and even further back Zoats, are explained away by simply saying they were isolated scouts that were part of the forerunning tendrils of the hive fleet. They have had thousands of years to get established before the main waves showed up, so they look like they "have always bee here" to short-sighted races. In that time their genetic material could have been spread over quite a few planets and races.

Some, like genestealers, manage to migrate quite effectively. Others like how Kraken are rumored to be Tyranid-like, were stranded on a single planet and after so long "appear" to be native fauna.

Kraken were around in the Horus heresy and beyond. I can verify this if you wish. Can we not have even more theories in the thread.

Lolwut: Emporer makes tyranids?

Yes, thousands of years can include tens of thousands.
The 'nids by their method of travel must be countless billions of years old. 10,000 years ago is to them what a second ago is to us.

**AegisGrimm**

Selym wrote:
Phonics wrote:
AegisGrimm wrote:
I certainly think that Tyranids are simply as extra-galactic race. The numbers of Tyranid creatures who seem to "have been here for a long time" like Genestealers, Kraken and even further back Zoats, are explained away by simply saying they were isolated scouts that were part of the forerunning tendrils of the hive fleet. They have had thousands of years to get established before the main waves showed up, so they look like they "have always bee here" to short-sighted races. In that time their genetic material could have been spread over quite a few planets and races.

Some, like genestealers, manage to migrate quite effectively. Others like how Kraken are rumored to be Tyranid-like, were stranded on a single planet and after so long "appear" to be native fauna.

Kraken were around in the Horus heresy and beyond. I can verify this if you wish. Can we not have even more theories in the thread.

Lolwut: Emporer makes tyranids?

Yes, thousands of years can include tens of thousands.
The 'nids by their method of travel must be countless billions of years old. 10,000 years ago is to them what a second ago is to us.

Exactly what I meant- thanks Selym. In no way have I proposed another theory. Everything my post was supporting the one where they come from a genesis outside of the Milky Way, so there's no need to bust my balls over it, Phonics. Some of their organisms just got here thousands of years in advance, and with no Tyranids until much more recently to judge them by, people (rightly so) assumed they are local fauna to the Milky Way.

**Pilau Rice**

Kovnik Obama wrote:

As of now, the options explored in this thread can be resumed as :

a) The nids got created like every other race, decided to flee the universe, but then, lol, decided to come back. What would be the point of this explanation, except creating a useless link to the existing creation lore?
b) The nids ARE an Old One. DUN DUN DUNNNN. This creates more problems than it solves, and again, only serves to provide us with a useless twist.
c) The nids were created by the Emperor. Lol wut? I don't even.

Yes, this is my opinion. That's implied in any discussion that doesn't boil down to an enumeration of scientific facts. But opinions can be evaluated, even in regards to things like fiction. How many liked the explanation that the Force was the result of the level of midi-chlorians in the blood? Not fething many. If your explanation of the origin of the Nids only serves to introduce some poor twist in regards of pre-existing material, then it's a bad explanation.

Some are out there, like Loki said, and I agree with him and you. Why would the Emperor create such a dangerous race of creatures and how would he beam them 12 galaxies away, he's not even old enough to create them. But you seem to have missed the mark of what I had suggested and that there is room for possiblity. But you like your Tyranids as they are, as do I, I'm just looking at the plausibilty that they could be an Old One creation.

The light of the Astronomicon is what is drawing the Tyranid back to Terra, so that's why they are coming back, drawn to its light like moths to a flame. I'm not sure anyone suggested that the Tyranid fled our galaxy.

**Orkimedes1000**

Manchu wrote:
It would make more sense if the Old Ones banished the Tyranid once the Necrontyr were contained but before they discovered the C'Tan. The Old Ones were masters of the Warp, they could have sent the Nids milennia distant. The nids meanwhile could have been on their way back ever since.

I don't see it as more interesting than nids being true "outsiders" to our galaxy but I guess it's not impossible.

Lets assume the old ones were attempting to create a stronger exhibit A

and a smarter Exhibit B

but

something went horrbily wrong and as a result

...

or

lets assume that they were created by the C'tan in response to the old ones creating Exhibit A

& Exhibit B

so they created Exhibit C

reasoning: they were powerful enough to fight the old ones so they had thought out all possible outcomes, and created a self evolving highly intelligent race of space arachnids. only something went wrong and they escaped (evolved simply grew wings and like a locust swarmed out of Necrontyr space)

**Selym**

Orkimedes1000 wrote:
Manchu wrote:
It would make more sense if the Old Ones banished the Tyranid once the Necrontyr were contained but before they discovered the C'Tan. The Old Ones were masters of the Warp, they could have sent the Nids milennia distant. The nids meanwhile could have been on their way back ever since.

I don't see it as more interesting than nids being true "outsiders" to our galaxy but I guess it's not impossible.

Lets assume the old ones were attempting to create a stronger exhibit A and a smarter Exhibit B but something went horrbily wrong and as a result ...

or

lets assume that they were created by the C'tan in response to the old ones creating Exhibit A & Exhibit B so they created Exhibit C reasoning: they were powerful enough to fight the old ones so they had thought out all possible outcomes, and created a self evolving highly intelligent race of space arachnids. only something went wrong and they escaped (evolved simply grew wings and like a locust swarmed out of Necrontyr space)

But:
1) How did they end up so far away in such a short space of time?
2) Why did they come back [Also in such a short spapce of time]?
3) Why didn't they eat the entire milky way galaxy before leaving?
4) What would be the point in returning?

I'm sure there are answers to those questions, but it does seem unlikely that the C'tan made the 'nids. Personally, I think this theory is less plausible than the Old Ones making them and sending them away/making them far away/Kayoss.

**CalgarsPimpHand**

I think it's short-sighted to dismiss this out of hand, although I think you have to modify it to fit suggestions in the fluff. It's a theory I've long had, because nothing in the fluff actually goes against it (in spite of Loki's efforts to prove otherwise).

Tyranids may have consumed up to 12 galaxies before ours, and there just isn't enough time to do that - who's to say they aren't moving in parallel and just got to those galaxies before they got to ours? Do we actually know what speeds they can achieve over intergalactic distances?

Old Ones were all destroyed - nothing explicitly says that, and nothing says some didn't flee the galaxy. They just lost the War in Heaven, and I would expect at least some members of such a super-intelligent race to beat feet out of the galaxy if they could.

I see it like this:

The Old Ones were losing a millions-year-long war. They had already created multiple races to fight the Necrons (so they definitely employ bio-weapons and think on a grand and very long-term scale) and were unable to defeat them. At least some Old Ones could have fled to a new galaxy, either during or after the war, and worked on creating a "reset button" to annihilate all life in the Milky Way, the ultimate tool to defeat their ancient enemy by stripping all value from their galaxy.

Except the Old Ones screwed up. They lost control of the Tyranids, who first wiped out the Old Ones' new galaxy, and then spread uncontrollably in all directions, destroying all nearby galaxies (I suppose 11 of them, so 12 counting their home galaxy) with the Milky Way being the next closest.

Look at the rest of the evidence we do (and don't) have. Nothing says the Tyranids are moving linearly, in fact graphics in the codex suggest their fleets practically fill the intergalactic void as they approach the Milky Way. This suggests they may have sufficient number to be radiating in all directions from their home. Also remember that if they function at all as a species, they are probably like a virus or bacteria, stripping planets and expanding in number - as they consume, their expansion will increase exponentially. Not one planet at a time, and one galaxy at a time, but one, then three, then nine, then 27, etc etc. And nowhere does it explicitly describe the speed of their locomotion, or even the exact mechanism. Some sort of quantum gravity drive could provide continuous acceleration in a bubble of moving space-time, making superluminal flight possible. Anything they did would take so much energy as to be totally unfeasible, and the details provided are so sketchy, I believe we are free to come up with whatever sci-fi justification is necessary.

Finally it plugs some holes in the Tyranid story that have nagged me. How does a race from another galaxy just happen to use a compatible DNA structure with all the major races in our galaxy (which incidentally were seeded/influenced by the Old Ones)? How did they first develop interplanetary/interstellar travel if they started on a single planet? Like the Orks and their inbuilt technological know-wuts which pretty much never could have evolved on their own, the Tyranids appear to be designed from the ground-up as a perfect interstellar bio-weapon.

It does have a certain poetry to it. The Old Ones, masters of time and space, once omnipotent rulers of the Milky Way, have finally committed an act of such hubris they have doomed all life, everywhere. GG guys.

I'm not saying anything I've presented is fact or the only deduction possible based on what we know. But face it, if the fluff goes out of its way to shroud something in mystery, it's an invitation to speculate. Not a gag order to never think about it. Nothing will ever be official of course, but the creative freedom allowed is half the fun of this game universe. If you don't like it, argue against it rationally or ignore it, but no need to harsh somebody's day by saying they can never speculate about it for fun.

**chapgrimaldus**

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised is any of these theories became official (though doubtful they will add to much in the near future) because lets face it today's writers make plot twists that are never original and always predictable. I agree with some that the nids should be kept scary and mysterious. Bring me BG fluff that can fit into the official fluff and post it in the fanfic area. I'll read it and most likely enjoy it but all this off the wall speculation making the waters mucky is a bit irritating. Plot twists are so yesterday

**Corporal_Reznov**

I'd prefer it if Nids just remain monsters from beyond the galaxy. It shows that the universe is a heartless bitch. It fits 40k and adds grimdark.

**Psienesis**

Actually, the depictions of the War in Heaven that appears in several Codices all but says the Old Ones were wiped out, and those who survived exist now as barbaric lizard-men proxy-armies, because GW already produces a suitable product line to present them on the table.

Seriously, that's what it says.

**Selym**

Psienesis wrote:
Actually, the depictions of the War in Heaven that appears in several Codices all but says the Old Ones were wiped out, and those who survived exist now as barbaric lizard-men proxy-armies, because GW already produces a suitable product line to present them on the table.

Seriously, that's what it says.

Just want to point out "All but destroyed" does not mean they were actually destroyed. It basically just says "Everything except destroyed"...

**Tiarna Fuilteach**

I do miss the old codex that used to allow my barbarian slann to fight necrons