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That's my point -- just as I wrote it -- perspective poses no problems for continuity. Those two novels are absolutely in continuity with one another despite being from very different general perspectives.

Ah, OK, in which case I agree.


That said, you do get a lot of people taking them at face value in my experience.

Well, in those books there are events and there are what characters think of those events. Just because a TS and a SW have different feelings about what happened over the course of those two novels does not mean that the two novels should be read separately as two of these ten thousand overlapping visions Lynata is always going on about. And that's not just limited to A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns -- that's just the most obvious example. The entire HH is linked as a series.

Manchu wrote:Apparently you did not understand why reds8n underlined the part about Merrett.

No, what I don't understand is where you see the relevance to this discussion.

Manchu wrote:Just because a TS and a SW have different feelings about what happened over the course of those two novels does not mean that the two novels should be read separately as two of these ten thousand overlapping visions Lynata is always going on about.

Please. This is not what I wrote. jareddm understood my post.

Quoting myself - as perhaps you did not read this clarification:
"What I'm saying is that the continuity that may or may not exist within the Horus Heresy books or any other series has no meaning whatsoever outside this limited scope. In essence, all HH novels ever should be treated as if they were a single book. It should be inernally consistent, but the contents are not any more valid or invalid than any other source. This is also not in contradiction to Mr. Gascoigne's explanation."

So in regards to internal consistency I am actually agreeing with you.

 Lynata wrote:

Manchu wrote:Apparently you did not understand why reds8n underlined the part about Merrett.

No, what I don't understand is where you see the relevance to this discussion.

Because its shows BL now has concern for continuity.

They've even said that as/when Deilverance Lost gets a reprint they're going to edit the wee passage about the Primarch order so it tallies with their revised/final version.

IIRC Mr. Kyme's Dwarf ToL book is getting a similar treatment with regards to some place names/similar.

... dunno if they'll reduce the number of Dragon Princes he mentions at the start, which did raise a few eyebrows amongst those overly who are into the fine details like that.

.. he typed with a bare faced lack of irony !

Manchu wrote:Because its shows BL now has concern for continuity.

Within their Horus Heresy series.

Do you think this was ever different, as far as other series (Gaunt's Ghosts, Enforcer, Daemonifuge, etc.) are concerned? I would assume that the things which are meant to tie into each other also should do so. The mistake would be to believe that this intent for consistency expands beyond a single series. But if I understand you correctly, we are actually in agreement here.

I actually remember that in the reprint of "Inquisitor", they edited the squat engineer out of the story, so there's a historic precedent for BL retroactively changing details.

My reprint of Inquisition War (from the late 2000s) retains the Squat. I have never seen a version where he is edited out although I have often heard that happened.

Do you not think that the expansion is inevitable ?

Mission creep kind of thing.

We've already had/got The Fang battle book and at least one justpostHHera Flesh Tearer book which follow on from/acknowledge the continuity of the HH series, whilst not being part of it directly.

Mr. Abnett has woven links a'twixt his HH works and elements of his "modern" 40k books, and there's obvious links between Mr. McNeill's HH books and his Ultramarine/Chaos books.

IIRC there's links between the Word Bearer stuff from the HH and the later A. Reynolds' series too.

They'll always leave gaps to room to fit ones own stuff in -- one thing the setting is not short of is time eh ? -- and they've said over and over again that those 2 shall not be named or revealed ( Personal theory : we will see them one day. Either due to demand from the customers or the need to extract £/$s suddenly from the customers.. but that's a whole other thread ) , and I think they'll never give a complete list of ( for example) Captains of the Ultramarines so you can indeed build, paint and most of importantly of all buy a captain model and proudly proclaim him to be Captain Steve Holt of the 7th company.

 Lynata wrote:

Manchu wrote:Because its shows BL now has concern for continuity.

Within their Horus Heresy series.

That's what's interesting about this project. Collected Visions was the first deep look at the HH -- and not in terms of a novel series but basically as an art book that contained fiction. It's not like BL has a rule that it's continuity only exists within the HH series, as if nothing that happens in the HH series matters to any other book. There's already some cross pollination there, as I recall.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 reds8n wrote:
so you can indeed build, paint and most of importantly of all buy a captain model and proudly proclaim him to be Captain Steve Holt of the 7th company.

Steve Holt!

 Manchu wrote:
My reprint of Inquisition War (from the late 2000s) retains the Squat. I have never seen a version where he is edited out although I have often heard that happened.

Have that one....Is it woth of reading?

Manchu wrote:It's not like BL has a rule that it's continuity only exists within the HH series, as if nothing that happens in the HH series matters to any other book.

Of course not. Just like they don't have a rule that it has to matter to any other book. Author's choice, going by ADB's explanations.
I'd not be surprised if more people jump on board, though. The series does seem fairly popular, from all I've heard.

DarthMarko wrote:

Manchu wrote:My reprint of Inquisition War (from the late 2000s) retains the Squat. I have never seen a version where he is edited out although I have often heard that happened.

Have that one....Is it woth of reading?

I only have "Inquisitor" (my first 40k novel .. before I even knew what 40k actually is ), but it's actually a book I like to read again every couple years or so. Narratively, it's well written (imho) and the characters are as diverse as they are enjoyable.

I am interested in seeing the rewrites of Battle for the Abyss and The Outcast Dead above all others, I might actually buy these two again.

Inquisitor/Draco is a great read, Ian Watsons style is very different to a lot, if not all, of the current 40k writers and like Lynata says, it's an enjoyable read.

The Deathwing anthology short story "Warped Stars" originally had Grimm the Squat in it but he was replaced byGrill the Tech Priest in the version I have.

Pardon my ignorance - but how do this rewrites work ? Like, what PoV the reader's mind must take ?

 DarthMarko wrote:
Pardon my ignorance - but how do this rewrites work ? Like, what PoV the reader's mind must take ?

Honestly mate, I don't know. I guess the stories will be the same but the continuity errors and the like will be addressed. With the Warped Stars short I mentioned that was amended by the editor, so I don't know if it will fall down to them or the actual writer of the book.

In the case of BftA, I want to see how they rewrite the Supplicants masking the Word Bearers assault.

Well it's the bonus for the guys who are reading books for the first time, certainly, but I don't think my mind would endure some radical changes...
I'mean I've read the book which (in my mind) goes into history ( with all fluff flops and changes )...So with this, they might add even more contradiction to already contradicting universe....

I wonder if they will update the audio books as well?

For example in Know no Fear



but in Garro: Legion of One




But, yeah, it could make them even worse, Sanguinius might now have pink hair as well!

It's a stretch but IIRC it is possible for the gene seed to be removed from a marine prior to their death.

I guess this might have happened here..?

 reds8n wrote:
It's a stretch but IIRC it is possible for the gene seed to be removed from a marine prior to their death.

I guess this might have happened here..?

That's true red, but when would Erebus have had the opportunity? Tariks not the kind of guy to let Erebus have his way with him.

Unless in the dead of night, Erebus the Geneseed burglar skulked in the shadows and stole it from underneath Tariks pillow

I have also have a question for the masses about the series - Has anyone actually bought every single short story and mp3 that has been released, can someone advise if they are worth buying or not? I am also interested in the Advent Calendar they released that has some Heresy stuff in it, is that worth getting?

With all these mini stories, new formats and mp3s I am finding it a little hard to keep interested if I am honest.

i've noticed that BL is running the HH in a very comic book style. What I mean is in a long running comic series, when a new character is introduce, there's usually a seperate tie-in comic focused on that character and explaining the events that led to their appearance in the main story. For instance, I never got a chance to read Kryptos so when I started Angel Exterminatus, the Raven Guard and Iron hands characters meant nothing to me. However, when Kryptos was referenced, I knew that those characters played an important role in that short story. And I'm okay with that. I'd bet money that the Salamander characters from Strike and Fade will feature in Vulkan Lives, but if you hadn't read Strike and Fade, to you they'd just be new characters. Knowing how they got to where they are is nice, but it's not crucial. That's been the case with all of the short stories and mini audiobooks they've been releasing. Though Warmaster was a pretty cool insight into Horus's mind, even if it was only 9 minutes long.

 DarthMarko wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
My reprint of Inquisition War (from the late 2000s) retains the Squat. I have never seen a version where he is edited out although I have often heard that happened.

Have that one....Is it woth of reading?

It is my favorite 40k fiction of all.

A few quick questions, more about how BL is actually selling the books:

Will Angels Exterminatis and on (the hardcovers) ever be released as small paperbacks? Ive seen them in paperback, but much larger than my existing collection.

Will the Scripts Volume 1 be released in paperback? It's been 5 months since the Hardcover release and I've seen nothing.

Thanks! I've been a bit out of it lately on the fictional side of the Hobby.

 jifel wrote:
A few quick questions, more about how BL is actually selling the books:

Will Angels Exterminatis and on (the hardcovers) ever be released as small paperbacks? Ive seen them in paperback, but much larger than my existing collection.

Will the Scripts Volume 1 be released in paperback? It's been 5 months since the Hardcover release and I've seen nothing.

Thanks! I've been a bit out of it lately on the fictional side of the Hobby.

Yes they will. the way it works is the hardcover and ebooks are sold at the same time, then a few months down the line, the trade paperback is released, then a few more months and the mass market paperback is released (the one you're familiar with). A number of publishers work this way but for BL it's especially sneaky because they know a lot of people will buy the trade paperback because they don't want to wait, but then will also by the mass market paperback to complete the collection.

Also, over time, the older books will be getting hardcover and trade paperback releases as well. These will include some continunity corrections that have since been established (size of legions, order of primarch discovery, etc)

Dang, that is sneaky. I am equally impatient and cheap... Quite a conflict of nature here! I suppose I can try to wait for the normal paperbacks...

jareddm wrote:

 jifel wrote:
A few quick questions, more about how BL is actually selling the books:

Will Angels Exterminatis and on (the hardcovers) ever be released as small paperbacks? Ive seen them in paperback, but much larger than my existing collection.

Will the Scripts Volume 1 be released in paperback? It's been 5 months since the Hardcover release and I've seen nothing.

Thanks! I've been a bit out of it lately on the fictional side of the Hobby.

Yes they will. the way it works is the hardcover and ebooks are sold at the same time, then a few months down the line, the trade paperback is released, then a few more months and the mass market paperback is released (the one you're familiar with). A number of publishers work this way but for BL it's especially sneaky because they know a lot of people will buy the trade paperback because they don't want to wait, but then will also by the mass market paperback to complete the collection.

Also, over time, the older books will be getting hardcover and trade paperback releases as well. These will include some continunity corrections that have since been established (size of legions, order of primarch discovery, etc)

Additional - trade paperback release is 6 months after, mass paperback is 3 months after that. BL has stated that any series that was initially published in MPPB format will carry on in that format, eventually, but anything new will only be issued in trade size - personally I would have been happy with price increases but keeping the MPPB size.

I don't believe"everything is canon and nothing is canon" is a marketing gimmick. (And I have to admit, I'm not sure why the very phrase seems to inspire so much rage, Manchu.) Rather, it's a way to absolve themselves of having to do a rather ridiculous amount of internal editing, retcon work, etc. The folks are GW/BL/FFG/whatever might be on the same page. They may even be on the same sentence. But that's pretty much as far as it goes. They simply appear to have an organizational and editorial style that's uninterested in making sure everyone's on the same word.

Which, fair enough. Want to see nerds really freaking out over canon, hit up any Star Wars forum sometime. I think we've got enough to yell at each other about in 40K without getting into the mud as to whether Horus wore red or pink lipstick.

 Seaward wrote:


Which, fair enough. Want to see nerds really freaking out over canon, hit up any Star Wars forum sometime. I think we've got enough to yell at each other about in 40K without getting into the mud as to whether Horus wore red or pink lipstick.

Red...It looks nice with the black armor

 farmersboy wrote:

jareddm wrote:

 jifel wrote:
A few quick questions, more about how BL is actually selling the books:

Will Angels Exterminatis and on (the hardcovers) ever be released as small paperbacks? Ive seen them in paperback, but much larger than my existing collection.

Will the Scripts Volume 1 be released in paperback? It's been 5 months since the Hardcover release and I've seen nothing.

Thanks! I've been a bit out of it lately on the fictional side of the Hobby.

Yes they will. the way it works is the hardcover and ebooks are sold at the same time, then a few months down the line, the trade paperback is released, then a few more months and the mass market paperback is released (the one you're familiar with). A number of publishers work this way but for BL it's especially sneaky because they know a lot of people will buy the trade paperback because they don't want to wait, but then will also by the mass market paperback to complete the collection.

Also, over time, the older books will be getting hardcover and trade paperback releases as well. These will include some continunity corrections that have since been established (size of legions, order of primarch discovery, etc)

Additional - trade paperback release is 6 months after, mass paperback is 3 months after that. BL has stated that any series that was initially published in MPPB format will carry on in that format, eventually, but anything new will only be issued in trade size - personally I would have been happy with price increases but keeping the MPPB size.

It's the other way round: trade is 3 months after release, and mass market a further 6 months after that.