Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
Oh, carry on then! When he wrote "The party of 'Freedom for only things we agree with'" I thought he was only referring to a single one. Now it actually makes sense.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/27 20:00:36
Hordini wrote: Does North Dakota consider the morning after pill an abortion?
It depends on the specific pill. Plan B only prevents fertilization by stopping the egg from falling into place, and by making the chemical environnement harder on the zoids. Ella is thought to be able to kill a (very) young foetus.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/03/27 20:25:19
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
Vulcan wrote: Choking the chicken? Spanking the monkey? Playing with himself? Each sperm cell IS a potential life after all. Same thing for guys who use condoms. Millions of potential lives lost each time.
In Arizona, 140,800 of the 1,290,026 women of reproductive age became pregnant in 2008. 71% of these pregnancies resulted in live births and 14% in induced abortions.
Source: Guttmacher Institute
I'm bothered by the fact that old men think they deserve governance over the reproductive functions of young women.
Those old men think they are preventing the killing of millions of babies annually, thats why.
Then they are deluded and should not be in office. The epidemiological evidence is clear.
Mmmm quite the opposite. But thats ok. As noted, I just don't care (as long as you don't make me pay for them). Third trimester, thats a different story.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
I'm bothered by the fact that old men think they deserve governance over the reproductive functions of young women.
Those old men think they are preventing the killing of millions of babies annually, thats why.
Then they are deluded and should not be in office. The epidemiological evidence is clear.
The epidemiological evidence of what?
Toaster doodles. DUH!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Kilkrazy wrote: In Arizona, 140,800 of the 1,290,026 women of reproductive age became pregnant in 2008. 71% of these pregnancies resulted in live births and 14% in induced abortions.
Source: Guttmacher Institute
Do you have any proof whatsoever to that statement?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Do you have any proof whatsoever to that statement?
Why would it even be controversial? If you're pregnant with a baby you don't want why would you wait any longer than you have to before getting rid of it? The only plausible reasons for abortions after 20+ weeks are because the various anti-abortion laws prevented you from getting one earlier (the admitted intent of some restrictions is to slow everything down and ensure that women can't get an abortion before the deadline), or because you've just discovered that the fetus has horrible medical problems.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Frazzled wrote:Do you have any proof whatsoever to that statement?
Will a report that compares the late-term abortion restrictions by state suffice? North Dakota currently does not permit late-term abortions (nebulously referred to as post-viability, which I believe is in excess of 21 weeks -someone can correct me if I've got that part wrong) with the only exception being for life-threatening complications.
EDIT: My mistake; North Dakota apparently doesn't even allow for late-term abortions when the fetus is guaranteed not to surve; the late-term abortion is only allowed if the life of the mother is in jeopardy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/27 23:01:24
hotsauceman1 wrote: you mean The party of "Freedom for only things we agree with"?
Doesn't that describe every political party?
To some extent. The issue here is that the Republicans sell themselves as the 'get government out of your life' and 'small government' party, then at every turn try to interfere just as much as the Dems. The Dems at least don't lie about wanting some government intervention.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
hotsauceman1 wrote: you mean The party of "Freedom for only things we agree with"?
Doesn't that describe every political party?
To some extent. The issue here is that the Republicans sell themselves as the 'get government out of your life' and 'small government' party, then at every turn try to interfere just as much as the Dems. The Dems at least don't lie about wanting some government intervention.
Hordini wrote:Okay. They probably think they're saving thousands of babies a year then.
Then they're still deluded. Those 21+ week abortions are typically due to zero-chance-at-life conditions like being born with half a heart or brain.
I didn't know we were only talking about 21+ week abortions. I just thought we were trying to figure out why some old men think they deserve governance over the reproductive functions of women.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/27 23:24:11
hotsauceman1 wrote: you mean The party of "Freedom for only things we agree with"?
Doesn't that describe every political party?
To some extent. The issue here is that the Republicans sell themselves as the 'get government out of your life' and 'small government' party, then at every turn try to interfere just as much as the Dems. The Dems at least don't lie about wanting some government intervention.
They just lie about other things.
Which makes them different, and not really equal in this instance. There is no shame in calling the Republicans out on their bs. Doing so doesn't make you a Democrat anymore than calling out Democrats on theirs makes you a Republican.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Hordini wrote:Okay. They probably think they're saving thousands of babies a year then.
Then they're still deluded. Those 21+ week abortions are typically due to zero-chance-at-life conditions like being born with half a heart or brain.
I didn't know we were only talking about 21+ week abortions. I just thought we were trying to figure out why some old men think they deserve governance over the reproductive functions of women.
Sure you did. Your quote was in response to that information:
Spoiler:
Hordini wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote: In Arizona, 140,800 of the 1,290,026 women of reproductive age became pregnant in 2008. 71% of these pregnancies resulted in live births and 14% in induced abortions.
Source: Guttmacher Institute
Hordini wrote:Okay. They probably think they're saving thousands of babies a year then.
Then they're still deluded. Those 21+ week abortions are typically due to zero-chance-at-life conditions like being born with half a heart or brain.
I didn't know we were only talking about 21+ week abortions. I just thought we were trying to figure out why some old men think they deserve governance over the reproductive functions of women.
Sure you did. Your quote was in response to that information:
Spoiler:
Hordini wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote: In Arizona, 140,800 of the 1,290,026 women of reproductive age became pregnant in 2008. 71% of these pregnancies resulted in live births and 14% in induced abortions.
Source: Guttmacher Institute
Frazzled wrote: Those old men think they are preventing the killing of millions of babies annually, thats why.
And their absolute, unquestioning belief that it is absolutely a baby just is the product of a political decision made in the 1970s by the leaders of the evangelical movement to align themselves with Catholic in order to increase their overall political influence.
Before then opinion on abortion among Evangelical was divided, but the overall consensus was that it was a Catholic thing.
And here we are, a generation away, and the conviction that it is a person is not only unquestionable, but so absolutely taken for granted that most aren't even aware that it could be asked as a question. It's staggering, really.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slarg232 wrote: Why solve the problem when you can solve a symptom?
I don't think there really is a problem. At least there isn't a 'baby murdering' problem like so many abortionists like to claim. If there was, they'd be doing a lot more than making signs and holding rallies and sometimes passing a law that's destined to be shot down by the Supreme Court.
I mean, imagine if it was 4 year old kids. That somehow the state had said if you really don't want your child anymore you can take them to a clinic and the doctor there will get rid of them for you. Well there'd be a lot more than fundraising email chains. The odd killing of an abortion doctor would be nothing like the violence you'd see.
But there isn't. Despite the rhetoric, they anti-abortionists don't actually act as if the foetus is the same thing as a child.
I mean hell, if they really believed that, they'd jump over every chance possible to stop abortion. And right now we know that if you make contraception free we can cut abortion rates by 80%. Offering women free IUDs or implanted hormone releasers would cost about $1,000 per operation, but that should sound like a bargain if it is stopping the murder of babies. But the anti-abortion movement doesn't even consider that, in fact they're opposed to making contraception more widely available.
At which point it becomes hard to see the apparent worry over dead babies as any more than the most transparent bs.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slarg232 wrote: Abstenince itself has a 99.99% success rate.
Failure rates include the inability of the user to use the method properly. Abstinence works at about 30% success rate.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote: Mmmm quite the opposite. But thats ok. As noted, I just don't care (as long as you don't make me pay for them).
You don't pay for them. That's been in law since the 1980s.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/03/28 03:50:35
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
My wife and I hope your all right on the Supreme Court over turning this. We live in North Dakota. She even organized and lead a local rally against these bills. As did several people she knew across the state. Its a sad times to live in this state. North Dakota may have a surplus of money and jobs but it seriously lacks a good governing body with a brain. As a matter of fact this personhood bill was headed up by a woman in the legislature.
my wife almost cried when she heard the governor signed them.
orunlu wrote:my wife almost cried when she heard the governor signed them.
Because your wife was so sad to learn that that the governor is dumb enough to believe that this won't get overturned by the supreme court?
Court cases take time. How many people are going to suffer the effects of these laws before the courts finally throw them out?
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
azazel the cat wrote: Because your wife was so sad to learn that that the governor is dumb enough to believe that this won't get overturned by the supreme court?
I'm guessing that the Governor and everyone else involved in this piece of law knows it isn't consistent with Roe v Wade... they're hoping that when this does go up it's one more chance at the Supreme Court overturning Roe v Wade.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
orunlu wrote: My wife and I hope your all right on the Supreme Court over turning this. We live in North Dakota. She even organized and lead a local rally against these bills. As did several people she knew across the state. Its a sad times to live in this state. North Dakota may have a surplus of money and jobs but it seriously lacks a good governing body with a brain. As a matter of fact this personhood bill was headed up by a woman in the legislature.
my wife almost cried when she heard the governor signed them.
Frazzled wrote:]Don't confuse me with someone who cares.
Frazzled wrote:As noted, I just don't care
As of this writing:
Number of posts in this thread: 51
Number of times you have posted in it: 11 (21.75% of the thread)
Did it sink in yet?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/28 10:46:25
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
