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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 12:59:45
Subject: Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
Norway
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One thing that I have wondered about is how would people worship Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch and Nurgle. Would the upper crust in general due to ambition and lust worship Tzeentch and Slaanesh? And would the lower classes go more for Nurgle and Khorne due to increased mortality and anger due to oppression?
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If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 13:01:59
Subject: Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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It's Chaos, it doesn't really matter which God is worshipped by who.
But i would Imagine that upper Classes would wosrship Slaanesh ( rich men orgy's  ) and maybe Tzenetch ( upper class scientists ).
Lower class would worship Nurgle ( poor health care ) and Khorne ( rage at the upper class  ).
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The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 13:06:46
Subject: Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Beaviz81 wrote:One thing that I have wondered about is how would people worship Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch and Nurgle. Would the upper crust in general due to ambition and lust worship Tzeentch and Slaanesh? And would the lower classes go more for Nurgle and Khorne due to increased mortality and anger due to oppression?
Sounds reasonable to me.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 13:30:42
Subject: Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
Perth/Glasgow
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Slaanesh is for everyone, the hedonistic upper classes and the workers who want to escape the monotony of their daily lives for just one night. (Of course it's never just one night in the end)
Nurgle is a well as who doesn't want to live for ever?
The martial aspect of Khorne may also intrigue some of the upper classes who are warriors (Some worlds will have the rule that only nobles can be officers etc.)
Tzeentcch will be mostly upper class but all those scheming drug barons and crime lords will pay him service as well
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Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 13:30:48
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Croatia
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upper class - pure Tzeench (scheming, struggle for power), Slaanesh (hedonism)
lower class - Nurgle (mutations, diseases), Khorne (constant killing for survival)
Also constant gibberish about martial provess of Khorne is getting on my nerves...Khorne doesn't care how the blood flows - get it in your skull....
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/29 13:33:19
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 13:41:31
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Then again, lower classes might worship Tzeentch, seeking the change and hope of overthrowing their oppressors.
A peasant boy might call out to Slaanesh to make the highborn girl his or to offer him experiences beyond the humdrum of his monotonous life in the processing plant and hab-cells.
A noble house, terrified as disease ravages the city beyond their walls, might call out to Nurgle to show mercy. An aging miser might plead with him to grant him longevity to maintain his grasp on his business empire.
The proud youth, never beaten in the ritual duels might call on the blood god to ensure he never does, the kingdom's priests, fearing the invasion of foreign powers, might find the emperor just too far away and call out in desperation to Khorne to strengthen their arm.
Any class or people could find themselves seeking out power or aid from one of the infernal powers.
A world invaded by the spawn of the warp might even call out to Malal... Automatically Appended Next Post: DarthMarko wrote:
Also constant gibberish about martial provess of Khorne is getting on my nerves...Khorne doesn't care how the blood flows - get it in your skull....
Skulls for the Skull Throne...
Try offering up the skull of the guy in the wheelchair you just shot as an offering and see how fast you get turned to spawn.
The more difficult, the more dangerous the foe, the greater the reward and the higher in favor of the blood god you will sit.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/29 13:44:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 13:48:40
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Croatia
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So Khorne is noble, now ?
Exterminatus doesn't fuel him ? Khorne bezerkers don't massacre women and children ? Jiz
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/29 13:52:09
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 14:01:23
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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DarthMarko wrote:So Khorne is noble, now ? Exterminatus doesn't fuel him ? Khorne bezerkers don't massacre women and children ? Jiz There is a difference, between mindless slaughter, and the kind of slaughter Khorne favours, is all he meant. Yes, he cares little from where the blood flows, but if you offer him the head of a cripple as a sacrifice, he would most likely be insulted. Offer him the head of a great leader of men, and you would (usually) be rewarded. Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, but that doesn't mean he would appreciate his followers going only to backwater planet's to slaughter peasant's. He may not be the great schemer, but he does have plans. Khorne, ironically, actually is noble, in his own way. He detests cowards who hide, and often claims the souls of those who are exceptionally brave, or strong, or skilled, such as a mortal who goes toe-to-toe with one of his greater creations and win. It's hinted that that's what fuels bloodletters, they are the remanent's of great warrior's khorne has claimed, and twisted.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/29 14:03:32
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 14:06:32
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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DarthMarko wrote:So Khorne is noble, now ?
Exterminatus doesn't fuel him ? Khorne bezerkesrs don't massacre women and children ? Jiz
Let's clear this up again.
The often cited 'Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows' is a quote from a Khornate champion attacking other followers of Khorne, they turn on each other readily enough when other worthy offerings are not available.
Is it likely this bloodlust leads them to atrocities of the innocent? Sure. Is that what Khorne wants? No, not through mercy, but it does nothing to sate his want for war.
Khorne sets his fleshhounds upon those of his followers who cravenly massacre the weak instead of seeking out worthy foes. This was all set down 20 years ago in Realm of Chaos. He is the God of War, the God of Warriors and Martial Pride.
In a short story, a Bloodthirster is attacking an imperial governor's palace and carving it's way through the PDF when some Grey Knights teleport in, the daemon is pleased to be confronted by these much more dangerous foes and snarls out 'Ah, Worthy Meat!'. It leaves it's intended target and goes off to battle the knights instead of leaving them to it's underlings.
Are a bunch of Khorne followers likely to depopulate a civilian population in short order, yes. Will they enjoy it, not much, they exist for war, war against a worthy foe, a servant of Khorne that gets too busy with busting into hospitals and orphanages to wreck havoc will be daemonic dogchow in very short order.
Slaanesh, on the other hand, yes, those guys will really enjoy turning civilians into paste, relishing the tears and the screams. Indulging in perverse delight at the suffering and murder, that's really not how Khorne rolls.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 14:08:33
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Croatia
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What plans ? He's an emotion of war, bloodlust and slaughter....Also WE descending upon agri-worlds is not a rare thing IIRC...
Automatically Appended Next Post: MeanGreenStompa wrote: DarthMarko wrote:So Khorne is noble, now ?
Exterminatus doesn't fuel him ? Khorne bezerkesrs don't massacre women and children ? Jiz
Let's clear this up again.
The often cited 'Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows' is a quote from a Khornate champion attacking other followers of Khorne, they turn on each other readily enough when other worthy offerings are not available.
Is it likely this bloodlust leads them to atrocities of the innocent? Sure. Is that what Khorne wants? No, not through mercy, but it does nothing to sate his want for war.
Khorne sets his fleshhounds upon those of his followers who cravenly massacre the weak instead of seeking out worthy foes. This was all set down 20 years ago in Realm of Chaos. He is the God of War, the God of Warriors and Martial Pride.
In a short story, a Bloodthirster is attacking an imperial governor's palace and carving it's way through the PDF when some Grey Knights teleport in, the daemon is pleased to be confronted by these much more dangerous foes and snarls out 'Ah, Worthy Meat!'. It leaves it's intended target and goes off to battle the knights instead of leaving them to it's underlings.
Are a bunch of Khorne followers likely to depopulate a civilian population in short order, yes. Will they enjoy it, not much, they exist for war, war against a worthy foe, a servant of Khorne that gets too busy with busting into hospitals and orphanages to wreck havoc will be daemonic dogchow in very short order.
Slaanesh, on the other hand, yes, those guys will really enjoy turning civilians into paste, relishing the tears and the screams. Indulging in perverse delight at the suffering and murder, that's really not how Khorne rolls.
So in your opinion, he has a noble side, which is fueled by a noble emotion?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/29 14:11:27
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 14:21:47
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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DarthMarko wrote:What plans ? He's an emotion of war, bloodlust and slaughter....Also WE descending upon agri-worlds is not a rare thing IIRC...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MeanGreenStompa wrote: DarthMarko wrote:So Khorne is noble, now ?
Exterminatus doesn't fuel him ? Khorne bezerkesrs don't massacre women and children ? Jiz
Let's clear this up again.
The often cited 'Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows' is a quote from a Khornate champion attacking other followers of Khorne, they turn on each other readily enough when other worthy offerings are not available.
Is it likely this bloodlust leads them to atrocities of the innocent? Sure. Is that what Khorne wants? No, not through mercy, but it does nothing to sate his want for war.
Khorne sets his fleshhounds upon those of his followers who cravenly massacre the weak instead of seeking out worthy foes. This was all set down 20 years ago in Realm of Chaos. He is the God of War, the God of Warriors and Martial Pride.
In a short story, a Bloodthirster is attacking an imperial governor's palace and carving it's way through the PDF when some Grey Knights teleport in, the daemon is pleased to be confronted by these much more dangerous foes and snarls out 'Ah, Worthy Meat!'. It leaves it's intended target and goes off to battle the knights instead of leaving them to it's underlings.
Are a bunch of Khorne followers likely to depopulate a civilian population in short order, yes. Will they enjoy it, not much, they exist for war, war against a worthy foe, a servant of Khorne that gets too busy with busting into hospitals and orphanages to wreck havoc will be daemonic dogchow in very short order.
Slaanesh, on the other hand, yes, those guys will really enjoy turning civilians into paste, relishing the tears and the screams. Indulging in perverse delight at the suffering and murder, that's really not how Khorne rolls.
So in your opinion, he has a noble side, which is fueled by a noble emotion?
This is not my opinion, it's 40k Lore for about 20 years. The Chaos Powers have a positive side, two sides of the same coin.
Khorne: Martial Honor, Duty
Tzeentch: Hope in change and ambition
Nurgle: Resilience and stubborn determination
Slaanesh: Power of self, confidence and wisdom through experience.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 14:25:09
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Croatia
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Now if you can give me a source of this claim I will be humbled....really...
Btw, only heard that on Tzeench and maybe Slaanesh...
Somehow Khorne and duty won't work in my book....
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/03/29 14:31:40
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 14:33:21
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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It's been prevalent for 20 years, since they created chaos. It's all over the place.
Here's one, The Lost and The Damned, page 7.
A chaos power thus represents a particular and generally extreme aspect of the traits shown in the living. The traits which characterise the Chaos Powers are insanity, violence, ambition, greed and others of a kind which are often felt to typify the worst of human nature. But this is not wholly the case, and Chaos Power s also exist which typify fellowship, charity, law and other redeeming characteristics. Indeed, no Chaos Power is wholly one sided, for no human of other creature is wholly good or evil, and likewise neither are their shadow-selves. For example, along with violence and bloodshed, Khorne has inherited the warrior's sense of honour and martial virtue. Nurgle may typify decay and disease, but he also embodies the human hope and energy that defies the inevitable.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 14:37:50
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Croatia
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Well I know dude, but me being brainwashed by the BL books did some damage on my brain - so I go to debate sometimes....
Like I said, I want to see those noble aspects in act.....All what I get about Khorne is trough bezerkes eyes - and they tend to kill guys in the wheelchairs:-)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/29 14:40:59
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 14:47:28
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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DarthMarko wrote:Well I know dude, but me being brainwashed by the BL books did some damage on my brain - so I go to debate sometimes....
Well, I think it's a very common misconception, made worse by that quote 'Khorne cares not from where...' being abused, as it initially represented the notion that Khorne's followers will fall upon each other and are not a cohesive army across the board, in fact, champions of Khorne would readily find other champions of Khorne in the Chaos Wastes or the Eye of Terror, as they know the other Khorne-servant will give them a worthy battle.
Perhaps, in time, there will be enough 'total bezerker god massacring babies and kittens' stories told that this overrides the old lore, but there has never been an official 'retcon' of the positive aspects of the Chaos gods, byproducts though they are, so they are still good, just less referenced these days. Automatically Appended Next Post: DarthMarko wrote:
Like I said, I want to see those noble aspects in act.....All what I get about Khorne is trough bezerkes eyes - and they tend to kill guys in the wheelchairs:-)
Are you asking me to prove this through actual stories from the games/books?
I think you'd find more with the Khorne champions in fantasy, the world eaters were nutjobs before turning to chaos... I seem to remember reading Konrad many years ago and it dealt with the notion of passing over simple slaughter of villagers to press on to find worthy foes to prove devotion to Khorne.
As I said, it's very widespread over the years. Worthy meat, Worthy challenges, Honor the Skull Throne.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/29 14:57:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 15:10:26
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Croatia
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IMHO BL is presenting it is rather paradoxal :
Slaanesh - experience trough emotions and self-confidence = rape and giant egoism (clear winner - Fulgrim)
Khorne - martial prowess = plain old war and slaughter
Tzeench - changes = scheming (special kudos to the =I=, blessed be)
Nurgle - resilience = diseases
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/29 15:10:56
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 15:57:25
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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MeanGreenStompa wrote:Let's clear this up again.
The often cited 'Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows' is a quote from a Khornate champion attacking other followers of Khorne, they turn on each other readily enough when other worthy offerings are not available.
That seems kinda misleading. First off, it's not "a quote from a Khornate champion" - it is a quote about Khornate followers in general and their relationship to their deity. Here's the actual citations:
"Khorne is the Blood God, Lord of War, Taker of Skulls. He is wrath incarnate, filled with never-ending lust to dominate and destroy, to conquer and kill. [...]
Under Khorne's urgings, his endless tide of soldiers are whipped into a blood frenzy and will fall upon each other in their desire to spill blood if no other foe can be found."
"Khorne is the Blood God, an angry and murderous God of Chaos whose bellows of insatiable rage echo throughout time and space. His great brass throne sits upon a mountain of skulls in the midst of a plain of splintered bones and lakes of blood, the remains of his followers slain in battle and those killed in his name. Khorne embodies mindless and absolute violence, destroying everyone and everything within reach, slaying both friend and foe alike.
The followers of Khorne are always ferocious warriors, for the Blood God abhors the trickery of magic and cowardly sorcerers. Men turn to Khorne for the power to conquer, to defeat their enemies in battle, to wreak bloody vengeance and to attain unaimaginable martial prowess. The most fanatical and dedicated to his followers, those trapped fully within his clawed grasp, know that he desires only wild slaughter. Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it does."
Also note how Chaos daemons are an embodiment and an accurate reflection of their patron deity - and I don't really see Bloodletters sparing a cripple or a kid.
We had threads discussing this before, though. Doing so yet again might derail this one. Maybe the discussion about Khorne's motifs should be relegated here?
OnTopic: I would say that those in power would show a clear tendency towards Slaanesh, simply because planetary nobility is regularly described as being hedonistic already. Sure, you will have some who may follow one of the other Chaos Gods, especially the schemers and backstabbers (Tzeentch) or those with martial ideals or lust for revenge against a political rival (Khorne). The majority, though, just comes across as being lazy gits who have little on their mind other than holding grandiose feasts and fething around, enjoying their priviliged life.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/29 15:59:39
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 16:02:52
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Lynata wrote:MeanGreenStompa wrote:Let's clear this up again.
The often cited 'Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows' is a quote from a Khornate champion attacking other followers of Khorne, they turn on each other readily enough when other worthy offerings are not available.
That seems kinda misleading. First off, it's not "a quote from a Khornate champion" - it is a quote about Khornate followers in general and their relationship to their deity. Here's the actual citations:
"Khorne is the Blood God, Lord of War, Taker of Skulls. He is wrath incarnate, filled with never-ending lust to dominate and destroy, to conquer and kill. [...]
Under Khorne's urgings, his endless tide of soldiers are whipped into a blood frenzy and will fall upon each other in their desire to spill blood if no other foe can be found."
"Khorne is the Blood God, an angry and murderous God of Chaos whose bellows of insatiable rage echo throughout time and space. His great brass throne sits upon a mountain of skulls in the midst of a plain of splintered bones and lakes of blood, the remains of his followers slain in battle and those killed in his name. Khorne embodies mindless and absolute violence, destroying everyone and everything within reach, slaying both friend and foe alike.
The followers of Khorne are always ferocious warriors, for the Blood God abhors the trickery of magic and cowardly sorcerers. Men turn to Khorne for the power to conquer, to defeat their enemies in battle, to wreak bloody vengeance and to attain unaimaginable martial prowess. The most fanatical and dedicated to his followers, those trapped fully within his clawed grasp, know that he desires only wild slaughter. Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it does."
Also note how Chaos daemons are an embodiment and an accurate reflection of their patron deity - and I don't really see Bloodletters sparing a cripple or a kid.
"Khorne is the god of anger and destruction, the warrior god of Chaos whose bellows of rage echo throughout time and space. He sits upon a great throne of brass atop a mountainous pile of bleached skulls. Whenever a champion of Khorne is slain in battle his skull is added to the pile, which slowly grows higher and higher. Khorne is a fighting god and his daemons and mortal Champions are amongst the most potent warriors of all. Khorne is a noble warrior who respects strength and bravery, who takes no joy in destroying the weak, and considers the helpless unworthy of his wrath. It is said that fate will spare any brave warrior who calls upon Khorne's name and pledges his soul to the blood god. It is also said that Khorne's daemons will hunt down and destroy any warrior who betrays his honour by killing a helpless innocent or murdering in cold blood. Khorne's great delight is battle and the spilling of blood"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 16:06:24
Subject: Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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That is from a way older description, though, and incompatible with my quotes, which are from the 4E Chaos Codex.
It has actually been debated in the linked thread how this was "retconned" by GW.
I mean, given the company's stance regarding "canon" it is entirely in our hands what we wish to work with, but it's still worth pointing out what the current books say, I think.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 16:17:24
Subject: Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Lynata wrote:That is from a way older description, though, and incompatible with my quotes, which are from the 4E Chaos Codex.
It has actually been debated in the linked thread how this was "retconned" by GW.
I mean, given the company's stance regarding "canon" it is entirely in our hands what we wish to work with, but it's still worth pointing out what the current books say, I think.
I merely showed you the quote to remind that what I've been talking about in this thread is the duality of the chaos gods, the 'beneficial byproduct' side has not been retracted and can still be said to exist.
I certainly think the chaos gods portrayal, along with damned near everything else, has been simplified and presented in much easier to pick up terms of goodies vs baddies for a while, but the duality was never removed, just skimmed over in lighter and lighter background coverage. YMMV.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 18:46:28
Subject: Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Crazed Cultist of Khorne
On the right hand of the Skull Throne
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All i know is the least fortunate would probably worship Tzeentch in hope of a change in their status.
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: : KILL MAIM BURN KILL MAIM BUUUUURRRRRN
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 19:10:43
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Croatia
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Lynata wrote:MeanGreenStompa wrote:Let's clear this up again.
The often cited 'Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows' is a quote from a Khornate champion attacking other followers of Khorne, they turn on each other readily enough when other worthy offerings are not available.
That seems kinda misleading. First off, it's not "a quote from a Khornate champion" - it is a quote about Khornate followers in general and their relationship to their deity. Here's the actual citations:
"Khorne is the Blood God, Lord of War, Taker of Skulls. He is wrath incarnate, filled with never-ending lust to dominate and destroy, to conquer and kill. [...]
Under Khorne's urgings, his endless tide of soldiers are whipped into a blood frenzy and will fall upon each other in their desire to spill blood if no other foe can be found."
"Khorne is the Blood God, an angry and murderous God of Chaos whose bellows of insatiable rage echo throughout time and space. His great brass throne sits upon a mountain of skulls in the midst of a plain of splintered bones and lakes of blood, the remains of his followers slain in battle and those killed in his name. Khorne embodies mindless and absolute violence, destroying everyone and everything within reach, slaying both friend and foe alike.
The followers of Khorne are always ferocious warriors, for the Blood God abhors the trickery of magic and cowardly sorcerers. Men turn to Khorne for the power to conquer, to defeat their enemies in battle, to wreak bloody vengeance and to attain unaimaginable martial prowess. The most fanatical and dedicated to his followers, those trapped fully within his clawed grasp, know that he desires only wild slaughter. Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it does."
Yep, this was like "mine perspective" on Khorneflake too, I mean honor, duty and Khorne just don't work together in my eyes... ty @Lyn
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ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 19:31:05
Subject: Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Hallowed Canoness
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No Imperial citizen will ever worship the Chaos Gods.
The moment they turn from the Emperor, they cease to be Imperial Citizens and become walking corpses who don't know they are dead yet. But they are. It's only a matter of time until the Ecclesiarchy finds them - if they're lucky. If they aren't, then the Inquisition will get there first...
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 19:51:30
Subject: Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
Norway
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No the lucky ones worship Chaos while without drawing the attention of the Chaos Gods. They still count as Imperial citizens. I mean if you betray your country you still count as a member of that country. The unlucky ones gets the attention of the dark gods.
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If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 19:54:41
Subject: Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Hallowed Canoness
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You speak heresy. Present yourself to your nearest Arbites precinct and recant your crimes.
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 20:07:32
Subject: Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Lurking Gaunt
Its bigger than a breadbox
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Furyou Miko wrote:No Imperial citizen will ever worship the Chaos Gods.
The moment they turn from the Emperor, they cease to be Imperial Citizens and become walking corpses who don't know they are dead yet. But they are. It's only a matter of time until the Ecclesiarchy finds them - if they're lucky. If they aren't, then the Inquisition will get there first...
Who let the commissars in on this thread? Go back to killing teenage conscripts that are too scared to be murdered by a hive tyrant "for the emporer". I just realized how evil those guys are... Automatically Appended Next Post: Furyou Miko wrote:You speak heresy. Present yourself to your nearest Arbites precinct and recant your crimes.
Heresy, or is it the truth?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/29 20:08:41
My armies: Tyranid, Nurgle/Dark Eldar and (hopefully) a squig one. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 20:10:59
Subject: Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Commissars deal with the military. It's the Ecclesiarchy's job to keep the civilians loyal.
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 20:52:51
Subject: Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
Norway
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And the friendly neighborhood Arbitrators.
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If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/31 02:11:47
Subject: Re:Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Lurking Gaunt
Its bigger than a breadbox
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Too bad chaos overcomes all! Nurgle will plague your cities! Khorne will have blood in the streets! Tzeentch will sow confusion! Slaanesh...uh...will do something perverted? I dunno. And Malal will reap chaos! Your emporer might save you. If he wasn't a corpse on a shiny chair!
Chaos approved message
Seriously, why do people worship a corpse?
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My armies: Tyranid, Nurgle/Dark Eldar and (hopefully) a squig one. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/31 02:15:51
Subject: Which god of Chaos would an upper class Imperial citizen worship vs a lower class?
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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Nurgle is pessimism.
Tzeentch is optimism.
As a General rule, people who have had terrible lives will turn to Nurgle (see the Primarch Mortarion) and people who have had pretty good lives will turn to Tzeentch (see the Primarch Magnus). Tzeentch is popular among intellectuals, nobles, and other rich people. Nurgle is popular among plague-sufferers and generally downtrodden people.
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