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So, i tried out the portaglyph today, and due to some seriously bad rolling, didn't spawn a single wave of new daemons from it in 5 turns. Now i would like to hear what others think about including the portaglyph in semi-competitive lists or is it just too unreliable to wield? One thing i have to say that my portaglyph got scattered in a perfect place, so that my opponent didn't have any good chances to take it out, but after three turns he didn't even bother to destroy it as i didn't roll a single 4+ to start spawning units.

For aggressive armies (which, I imagine, most Daemon armies will be), I feel like the portal is near mandatory. With a minimum of 5 rolls, you should be able to spawn at least a couple of units during the course of the game to hold objectives in your deployment zone. This gives you a lot of freedom with how to manage the rest of your units, especially in situations where you can afford to throw everything forward without worry of deep striking units or fast moving transports (e.g., flyers).

I think it's worth taking. Especially in low point games.

But again, the randomness of statistical error of not rolling a single 4+ in a game will make it useless 30pts. Ok this was just one game and i will be trying it out in more games and with the same list. Also it is worth remembering that the portaglyph can be destroyed easilly if it happens to scatter to open ground, so there is even more randomness involved. Ofc the best place to throw it down is behind the carrier the full 12 away in behind some high terrain so that if it hits, it will just remain there and make the opponent use resources to destroy it and that is allways some big guns not firing on your FMCs and MCs. I would like to hear some experiences in using it, not statistical claims if it is good or bad, but actual games where it has or has not worked well.

Yes but remember you could spawn over 30 models with it.

I hardly take it, because the Book and the Eternal Blade come first most of the time. But if I don't urgently need the Eternal Blade and it is a mission with more than one objective, I will take the Portalglyph.

But I never use it until First Blood has been awarded. Its far too easy to destroy (or a unit of 1 daemon that comes out of it).

Slightly off topic, but how are you modeling it? I imagine it to be roughly 3" in diameter, something you could hide behind a bastion.

I've been using the 3D Apocalypse template for the Vortex Grenade. Its great to have a use for it again.

Ok. If you do the mathhammer for an average daemon unit, this would be 9.25 pts per model. With an average spawn size of 7 we multiply 9.25 by 7 for 64.75. Dividing by 2 because of the 4+ we find the average to be 32.375 PER TURN. Since this is guaranteed 1 turn of spawning chance I would judge the portaglyph worth it's points and then some.

I think that while it can be useful, it is far from mandatory. I tend to think that Daemons should invest very little into Troops, as they are not very good. 4x10 Plaguebearers should already be pretty sufficient. I suppose you could take 3x10 and a Portal, but it is far more random and only saves 60 points.

Considering 1 Pink Horror can still throw out 2D6 shots, I'd say it's worth it

 JGrand wrote:
I think that while it can be useful, it is far from mandatory. I tend to think that Daemons should invest very little into Troops, as they are not very good. 4x10 Plaguebearers should already be pretty sufficient. I suppose you could take 3x10 and a Portal, but it is far more random and only saves 60 points.

Daemon Troops not very good???? Not easy to use maybe, but far from "not very good". All of them are cheap, and two of them completely wreck face in close combat, while one of them excels at holding objectives, and the other throws out up to 4d6 S5 shots with only a single model needing line of sight. How do you find that not good?

Taking units of 10, yeah, that's probably not a great idea except for maybe Plaguebearers (all they will generally do is camp objectives). Everything else needs to be in squads of 15-20. If taking the portal, use either Plaguebearers and go to ground on objectives or use Pink Horrors and sling some spells. Otherwise, don't bother as spawning Bloodletters and Daemonettes in such small groups is next to useless.

I think this will become the best thing out of the codex (mark it down, called on 3/31/2013, by Brymm). We'll all look back at this thread and be like "What!? How did they not see that this was totally awesome!?!?"

Pros: Its basically flat. Anything will completely block line of sight to it.
It can't scatter off of the board or into impassable terrain. It reduces the scatter to allow it to avoid. Aim for the exact corner of the board.
Its crazy cheap.
It makes free guys. We all know Tervigons are terrible because of this.

Cons: There's a chance it won't work, like all game, if you roll poorly!
There's a chance it will be destroyed!
... last time I checked, those 'cons,' that describes every unit in the game.

Best thing in the codex.

I used to run with one plaguebearer squad. Now I run a portalglyph instead. Not only do I save 60 points, but usually, I spawn my plaguebearers anyway, in MSU 's , meaning that they are more resillient to shooting and assaulting( Possible to kill all of a group of 10 from shooting or assaulting easilly, but 3 units of 3 need 3 unit's shooting at them or assaulting them.)

Perfectly good item

So basically here's how I see it being used: turns 1-3 spawn horrors unless the opponent brought only termies in which case you bring Daemonettes. Turns 4-whatever spawn plague bearers unless you're about to table your opponent, in which case you could spawn anything depending on the situation

 Evileyes wrote:
I used to run with one plaguebearer squad. Now I run a portalglyph instead. Not only do I save 60 points, but usually, I spawn my plaguebearers anyway

This.

If you want to spawn out some more units, its a great way to do this.

I'm not convinced. I see too many points of failure in doing this.

First, the cost isn't 30 points, it's 30 points plus a model to carry it. If that model is already in the army, then it's 30 points of opportunity cost for other rewards that you're giving up.

Meaning, most characters have a limit on how many rewards they can take. If you're taking an exalted reward with the expectation of taking a portaglyph, then you're not taking a greater reward that might increase your character's longevity. I'd hesitate to put this on a daemon prince, because I really want two shots at getting one of the defensive greater rewards to keep my guy alive.

If you're putting it on a dedicated portaglyph carrier, then the cost for having the portaglyph is then increased by the cost of that carrier.

Okay, so you took it somewhere. But, it's still a AV12 vehicle that dies to any glancing hit. That's not too durable. Hide it behind terrain? Sure, but the average scatter on this thing is 14" from where you wanted it. How many pieces of terrain that cover 28" (14 in either direction) do you typically play with? Sure, it won't go off the table, but it's not stopped by difficult terrain, so it can easily deviate towards your opponent and away from whatever you tried to hide it behind.

I'm not sold. I think if it's going to be useful in a game, any good list should be able to take it out in short order, and I don't think it's as simple as 30 points, I think those 30 points could be better spent on most of the models who would be tasked with carrying the thing,

The problem i see is Sadly those units spawned are gonna be smaller units. Giving up easy KP's. Best luck trying to get it near 2 pieces of terrain/ruins perhaps where you placed some objectives. Get some big cover save PB's out. ( with a huge scatter range, def tough. You could stick it in your back far corner far from your enemy. And hope it scatters in the 180 degree arc off the table, therefore stays in the corner since it wont go off table.

Also i think it said (dont have my book in front) new units coming from portlaglyph count as disembarking from a transport (so arrive and charge?) Sadly this usually puts the portlaglyph in danger.

But if your worried about making that 4+, consider running fateweaver in the same list.

Ran three games with a Portal Glyph yesterday. Deployed the Glyph in my backfield to cover objectives while everything moved towards the enemy. First and Third games glyph barely scattered. Second it scattered directly across my deployment zone 20 inches.

First game I got three units, one Horror, three Horrors and then six Bloodletters late. Horrors were able to cover both objectives in my zone. 30 point glyph, 96 points of daemons, claimed two objectives.

Second game got two units, four Horrors and six Horrors early. Unit of four got taken out, glyph was destroyed in turn four. Unit of six was able to use bolt twice, took out a DE Archon when he failed his invuln save, while they were claiming an objective. 30 point glyph, 90 points of daeons, killed an archon, claimed an objective.

Third game, went six turns, got four units, Two units of two Horrors, a unit of six Horrors and then five Bloodletters. Two units of two were able to tag team a termagaunt brood with flickering fire and take it off the table. Bloodletters contested an objective late while the unit of Six was able to claim an objectie. All this in a Big Guns Never tire where all my actual troop choices had been destroyed. Cannons of Khorne were able to claim an objective and get me the win 9-8. 30 point glyph, 140 points of damons, killed 15+ unit of termagaunts, contested one objective, claimed another when all other troop choices destroyed.

So far its worth the points I've spent on it

 Redbeard wrote:
I'm not convinced. I see too many points of failure in doing this.

First, the cost isn't 30 points, it's 30 points plus a model to carry it. If that model is already in the army, then it's 30 points of opportunity cost for other rewards that you're giving up.

Meaning, most characters have a limit on how many rewards they can take. If you're taking an exalted reward with the expectation of taking a portaglyph, then you're not taking a greater reward that might increase your character's longevity. I'd hesitate to put this on a daemon prince, because I really want two shots at getting one of the defensive greater rewards to keep my guy alive.

If you're putting it on a dedicated portaglyph carrier, then the cost for having the portaglyph is then increased by the cost of that carrier.

Okay, so you took it somewhere. But, it's still a AV12 vehicle that dies to any glancing hit. That's not too durable. Hide it behind terrain? Sure, but the average scatter on this thing is 14" from where you wanted it. How many pieces of terrain that cover 28" (14 in either direction) do you typically play with? Sure, it won't go off the table, but it's not stopped by difficult terrain, so it can easily deviate towards your opponent and away from whatever you tried to hide it behind.

I'm not sold. I think if it's going to be useful in a game, any good list should be able to take it out in short order, and I don't think it's as simple as 30 points, I think those 30 points could be better spent on most of the models who would be tasked with carrying the thing,

I put it on my herald of Tzeentch. He doesnt need longevity when he is in a squad of 20 horrors. All he needs is his locus, and psychic powers, therefore, I had a "free" slot to put the glyph in. And since they are at the back of the table with the objectives most games, he can throw it out onto my second objective if I have one, thus almost ensuring me 2 objectives for an extra 30 points

In my latest list i too decided on putting the portaglyph on my herald of tzeentch, as i would not take any rewards for him anyway.

Tsilber wrote:
The problem i see is Sadly those units spawned are gonna be smaller units. Giving up easy KP's. Best luck trying to get it near 2 pieces of terrain/ruins perhaps where you placed some objectives. Get some big cover save PB's out. ( with a huge scatter range, def tough. You could stick it in your back far corner far from your enemy. And hope it scatters in the 180 degree arc off the table, therefore stays in the corner since it wont go off table.

Also i think it said (dont have my book in front) new units coming from portlaglyph count as disembarking from a transport (so arrive and charge?) Sadly this usually puts the portlaglyph in danger.

But if your worried about making that 4+, consider running fateweaver in the same list.

Easy kill points? In one out of six games? Are 5-man Necron Warrior squads not used because they are "easy kill points?" Cheap troops win games.

Also, too many points of failure? What?
Free troops = more games you'll win.

 Brymm wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
The problem i see is Sadly those units spawned are gonna be smaller units. Giving up easy KP's. Best luck trying to get it near 2 pieces of terrain/ruins perhaps where you placed some objectives. Get some big cover save PB's out. ( with a huge scatter range, def tough. You could stick it in your back far corner far from your enemy. And hope it scatters in the 180 degree arc off the table, therefore stays in the corner since it wont go off table.

Also i think it said (dont have my book in front) new units coming from portlaglyph count as disembarking from a transport (so arrive and charge?) Sadly this usually puts the portlaglyph in danger.

But if your worried about making that 4+, consider running fateweaver in the same list.

Easy kill points? In one out of six games? Are 5-man Necron Warrior squads not used because they are "easy kill points?" Cheap troops win games.

Also, too many points of failure? What?
Free troops = more games you'll win.

In games i play in... yes

Anyway just realized units arriving from portlaglyph cant charge the first turn they show up. So trying to get it near terrain i think is best best. Far away and hiding..

Daemon Troops not very good???? Not easy to use maybe, but far from "not very good". All of them are cheap, and two of them completely wreck face in close combat, while one of them excels at holding objectives, and the other throws out up to 4d6 S5 shots with only a single model needing line of sight. How do you find that not good?

Yes they are not very good. Daemonettes are outclassed by Seekers, who get a number of bonuses for three points and lose only scoring (which Daemonettes aren't going to be doing anyway). Bloodletters are incredibly bad. They are slow and lack grenades and fleet. Horrors have to jump through a number of hoops to be successful. 180 points of Horrors averages 14 shots, 7 hits, and a bit less than 5 wounds on MEQ, 6 on GEQ. Add in a Herald and you get more potent, but you are also sinking 225 into the unit at a minimum. Not to mention that 1/6 of these barrages are going to be denied from your average unit, even more from Psykers and those with Deny the Witch protection. Also, the unit gives out FNP based on a toughness test. 2/3-1/5 of the time, you are making what you are shooting at better. Finally, while a LD 10 psychic test is good, it is not a guarantee. Against SW and Eldar..gg.

As for "not easy to use," I don't follow. The strategy for Letters and Nettes is to get into CC (where they will lose models and thus, you lose scoring units). The strategy for Horrors is to shoot reasonable targets without getting close enough to feel threatened by overwhelming shooting or assault. /Shrug/

The best idea is still to take 10 count Plaguebearers and work to overwhelm opponents so much that they don't get a chance to kill your troops. Such is the Daemon way.

Taking units of 10, yeah, that's probably not a great idea except for maybe Plaguebearers (all they will generally do is camp objectives). Everything else needs to be in squads of 15-20. If taking the portal, use either Plaguebearers and go to ground on objectives or use Pink Horrors and sling some spells. Otherwise, don't bother as spawning Bloodletters and Daemonettes in such small groups is next to useless.

I wouldn't take anything but Plaguebearers because they only need to take objectives. Counting on the others to put in substantial work is a folly. Invest points into the better close combat units in the Codex before throwing them away on the inferior Daemonettes and Bloodletters.

Portalglyph is a situational item, but it's a situational item that you aren't forced to take if the situation requiring it doesn't come up. I have a single exalted reward in my version of the MTO list that I use primarily to gain access to the Grimoire. When I find myself in a situation where scoring troops are necessary, such as in a 5 objective game, or when I don't feel the Grimoire will be necessary, I grab Portalglyph. Portalglyph is actually an insanely points efficient offensive threat if you use it to spawn Pink Horrors (and the group of folks you play with don't use iffy RAW to deny your Horrors shooting). Each Horrors unit spawned by the Glyph is equivalent to a 90pt minimum Horror unit offensively. An average game will spawn 180 to 270pts of Pink Horrors offensively. That's pretty obscene for a 30pt upgrade. I tend to go for the Bolt when able with my Horrors, and having more chances at using that spell is awesome.

The way that I use Portalglyph is to stick it in a corner behind LOS blocking terrain of some sort. Any LOS blocking terrain at all is likely to render the Portalglyph nearly invulnerable to enemy shooting the first turn or two of the game. By sticking the Glyph in a corner you vastly decrease the chance that your Portalglyph will suffer an appreciable scatter. First you have a 1/3 chance of getting a "hit" on the scatter dice, thus suffering no scatter. Then, even if you do scatter, 50% of the possible scatter directions will go onto a table edge, which will vastly decrease your scatter, generally rendering it nill. Even if you do get unlucky with your scatter and fail the 1/3 chance to get a "hit" and then scatter in one of the directions that doesn't intersect a table edge you're in the corner of the board and many of those scatter directions won't render the Portalglyph vulnerable. A tactic I don't use, but is worth considering, is to use an Aegis Defense Line to create an even greater safe zone for your Glyph to scatter behind. In general, that glyph isn't going anywhere.

So yeah, the Portalglyph is cheap. It's reliable (your experience was terrible, but statistically unlikely, and you still only lost 30pts of investment because of it). When used in conjunction with Horrors it generates a disproportionate amount of threat (don't forget Horrors can GtG for a re-rollable 2+ in ruins; they have a 30" threat range from the Glyph, too!). Most importantly, it lets you invest almost no points at all in troops (I usually spend around 300ish on three troops choices when I plan to bring the Glyph) and not get ruined by missions that benefit large numbers of troops units. This means you can invest almost all of your points into bringing the biggest, scariest threats you can with no negative repercussions. The glyph is a huge boon for Daemons.