What if...GW liked money?

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**Harriticus**

There's little reason for GW's anti-social behavior and mindless business strategies. "Need to defend their IP" doesn't make sense when every other company in the world defends their IP while also actually advertising/expanding their products just fine.

The OP does bring a good point that GW isn't a big greedy company just bent on making money in any way possible. They're greedy and bent on making money, but also stubborn and mean spirited and want to make money only in their own way.

**AllSeeingSkink**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Anecdotes (experiences) can be qualitative data, but some people have a habit of considering them to be quantitative.

Studies are continuing to try and identify the gene responsible for this behaviour.

Qualitative data is simply a lot of anecdotal experience, quantitative data is simply a lot of anecdotal data which has numbers put to it.

**precinctomega**

Fine. I will spell it out.

If GW grows too big, it will begin cutting into the margins of much, much bigger companies. Why have they not licensed their products for action figures? Why did they pull out of conic books despite impressive (and growing) sales and industry plaudits? Why have they been so very circumspect with licensing when it is clearly their largest single revenue stream?

Because if they get too big, Hasbro will step in, buy up a controlling interest, and annihilate the Hhhhobby as we know it.

**Agamemnon2**

nkelsch wrote:
Oh look, this thread again.

Another "internet wishlist" of how everyone knows how to do everything better.

We have these literally every week, bulleted lists and all.

Give KK some credit. His list is numbered, not bulleted.

precinctomega wrote:
Because if they get too big, Hasbro will step in, buy up a controlling interest, and annihilate the Hhhhobby as we know it.

No, I don't buy that. A buyout would be troubling for us, as fans, but for GW suits? It'd be a massive payday, possibly in the "don't have to work for a few years" level. That controlling interest would be bought from GW shareholders, which would, I assume, include Kirby and other bean-counters. Nobody at Wizards of the Coast was reduced to beggary when Hasbro bought the company. They got richer.

**Peregrine**

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Nobody at Wizards of the Coast was reduced to beggary when Hasbro bought the company. They got richer.

And of course they kept on making games and, in the case of MTG, are better now than they ever have been. So I really don't see where this idea of "buyout = goodbye hobby" comes from.

**Agamemnon2**

Peregrine wrote:
Agamemnon2 wrote:
Nobody at Wizards of the Coast was reduced to beggary when Hasbro bought the company. They got richer.

And of course they kept on making games and, in the case of MTG, are better now than they ever have been. So I really don't see where this idea of "buyout = goodbye hobby" comes from.

Precisely. WOTC was bought because it had a bestselling product and was raking in lots of money. It's still doing that today, with some differences to the operations and corporate structure I'm sure, but the product still exists. MTG cards did not change cardboard for ham. Black mana was not replaced with Shady Quintessence. Everything kept buggering on.

**Yodhrin**

precinctomega wrote:
Fine. I will spell it out.

If GW grows too big, it will begin cutting into the margins of much, much bigger companies. Why have they not licensed their products for action figures? Why did they pull out of conic books despite impressive (and growing) sales and industry plaudits? Why have they been so very circumspect with licensing when it is clearly their largest single revenue stream?

Because if they get too big, Hasbro will step in, buy up a controlling interest, and annihilate the Hhhhobby as we know it.

What a load of nonsense. As Agamemnon2 pointed out, a GW takeover by a major toy or entertainment corporation/conglomerate would be a huge payday for the existing executives and shareholders, and that's all they're interested in. Most of the people with a financial interest in GW couldn't give a flying fig about "the hobby", hell most of them probably don't even know where their money is invested since it's being done through brokers and mutual funds, they'd be overjoyed by the sort of return they'd get in the event of a buyout, and Kirby more than any of them since it gives him exactly what he's after at the moment without all that pesky "work" and "obfuscating the perilous financial situation of the company he runs to reassure investors" stuff.

**Kilkrazy**

I have a bunch of money in my personal pension funds and I have no idea where it is invested except that 80% of it is in the UK stock market. Some of it could be in GW for all I know.

**ExNoctemNacimur**

Well, GW may have actually done some research on it and found that because the market is small, marketing on TV or in newspapers may not make economical sense - they're not getting enough of a return on that investment.

But going to trade shows definitely would be a wise idea.

**Kilkrazy**

TV advertising is very expensive. GW's best form of marketing is word of mouth from older players because it costs nothing. That is why it is dangerous to alienate the veterans.

**jonolikespie**

Kilkrazy wrote:
TV advertising is very expensive. GW's best form of marketing is word of mouth from older players because it costs nothing. That is why it is dangerous to alienate the veterans.

Can not exalt enough.

They are trying to have their cake and eat it too, they expect word of mouth to be their primary advertisement but they have no interest in fostering a good company image that is needed for word of mouth to be effective.

**Mannahnin**

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Peregrine wrote:
Agamemnon2 wrote:
Nobody at Wizards of the Coast was reduced to beggary when Hasbro bought the company. They got richer.

And of course they kept on making games and, in the case of MTG, are better now than they ever have been. So I really don't see where this idea of "buyout = goodbye hobby" comes from.

Precisely. WOTC was bought because it had a bestselling product and was raking in lots of money. It's still doing that today, with some differences to the operations and corporate structure I'm sure, but the product still exists. MTG cards did not change cardboard for ham. Black mana was not replaced with Shady Quintessence. Everything kept buggering on.

Magic has kept on well, but D&D has taken steps back and lost market dominance.

Rick Marshall has written a lot of interesting stuff about Wizards and the Hasbro buyout. He started, oddly enough, by highjacking a set of blog comments (link below) with a lot of fascinating material.
http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2010/11/thank-you-ryan-dancey.html#comments

He's since started collecting a lot of history and his thoughts on Wizards of the Coast on his own blog.
http://oathsandfates.blogspot.com/2011/07/wizards-of-coast-new-series.html
http://oathsandfates.blogspot.com/2011/07/wizards-to-rescue-dungeons-dragons.html

**JOHIRA**

I feel like advertising isn't so important. It has it's place and GW could certainly do more with it (including hype-building previews, rather than the fake-leaking shoddy pictures nonsense they play at now). But what GW really needs to invest in is quality control.

At the production level, they need quality control to prevent things like the Finecast introduction debacle.

But more than that, they need quality control at the design level. Every plastic release needs to be relentlessly scrutinized to make sure it is perfect. GW has a long history of releasing disappointing plastics and then not fixing them because the cost of plastic molds makes it prohibitive to go back and revisit a model they've already done. That should never happen. They should be able to look at every model they release, at least the plastic ones, and say, "Yes, 10 years down the line this will still look cool."

**Byte**

They don't like money, they only strive for the happiness of their customers regardless of the cost. Our happiness and loyalty is their priority.

**blood reaper**

Byte wrote:
They don't like money, they only strive for the happiness of their customers regardless of the cost. Our happiness and loyalty is their priority.

I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not. Hopefully you are.

If GW did care about the player base, then they wouldn't try so hard to alienate and push them away as they do. GW's current activities show that they aren't really too concerned for regulars. More so they seem to concentrate on occasionally selling starter sets, than selling to regulars.

**Kilkrazy**

JOHIRA wrote:
I feel like advertising isn't so important. It has it's place and GW could certainly do more with it (including hype-building previews, rather than the fake-leaking shoddy pictures nonsense they play at now). But what GW really needs to invest in is quality control.

At the production level, they need quality control to prevent things like the Finecast introduction debacle.

But more than that, they need quality control at the design level. Every plastic release needs to be relentlessly scrutinized to make sure it is perfect. GW has a long history of releasing disappointing plastics and then not fixing them because the cost of plastic molds makes it prohibitive to go back and revisit a model they've already done. That should never happen. They should be able to look at every model they release, at least the plastic ones, and say, "Yes, 10 years down the line this will still look cool."

Yes, totally.

GW are about two decades behind the curve on plastics production. Which means they are improving, actually, because 15 years ago they were about four decades behind the curve.

**Asherian Command**

That would be cool. having mainstream horus heresy and black liby characters being released.

**Aleph-Sama**

T-Shirts... Nuff said. I can't find shirt with a space wolf on it. Or a farseer. Or a celestian. or anything.... Why don't they sell these things?! Or a hat! Or coffee mugs! They really need to expand their merchandising. But the High Coucil of Terra, I mean the execs at GW, would rather just feed 1000 psykers, I mean gamers, to the golden throne that is WFB and 40K, instead of trying to fix the machine and keep the whole thing alive.

**Selym**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

1. The Hobbit Game would be heavily advertised
That would be an excellent idea for GW to follow through, but they seem to believe that simply word of mouth will advertise for them, and they arre too afraid of technology to out anything out on the internet...

2. Popular GW tie-ins like the video games, novels and RPGs would be represented on the table top. Rogue Traders and Death Watch would be playable factions. Each month there would be a new special character based on a popular BL character. We'd have 3 versions of Inquisitor Eisenhorn for example and Guant's Ghosts would still have their own rules.
Personally, I'd prefer GW concentrated on getting the WH40k system to actually work before adding stuff to it. Unless you meant as separate entities, in which case I'd like them to fix WH40k before dividing their attentions even further

3. GW would let retailers and fans know what's coming to generate excitement. Stores would hold special events to sell the newest army.
They did something like this with the 50th (?) anniversary of WH40k, and the turnout for that at my local GW was quite impressive - I'm sure they sold in one day more models than they normally sell in a month. If only they were more consistent with these kinds of events *dreaming*

4. Starter sets would be a bargain to get fans started on a new army which they would then spend a fortune improving.
It already does this quite well. In the UK, the DV box is £61.50, and contains a rulebook, templates, dice, army roster sheet and two finely detailed 500 pts (Approx) armies. Brilliant deal - especially considering their other products.

5. GW would still make stand alone games like Space Hulk and would get them into new channels like toy and book stores. And they'd actually stay in production.
Yes. And this is what all board games companies to to stay alive - and they don't even have a fan base. We can only imagine the ludicrous profits that GW would get if this happened.

6. Horus Heresy, based on a BEST SELLING BOOK SERIES would be a mainstream product, available in plastic in stores rather than mail order only resin.
They'd need to get the books to be FAR more popular first, IMO, but this would be a great idea.

7. GW would try to keep fans engaged so we don't drift off into other games or hobbies.
Well, you have to admit that this will be quite difficult for GW to do, considering the current universe. WH40k as a tabletop game needs stability in it's story line in order to hold together. But it would be nice to see WH50k (10,000 years later) wherein the 40k models are still usable, but the game is set in a progressed story line.

8. We'd be able to buy Finecast with confidence the models would be error free.
Not sure if finecast errors are due to laziness, materials, molds or simply not giving a damn, personally. This one depends on how Finecast actually works under GW.

9. Core products like Cult Marines would be regularly updated instead of focusing on dinobots.
Erm... dinobots? If I'm right about what you mean here, then yes I agree that they should update more cyclically, and cover all the armies on a rota, rather than Space Marines, Spess Marines, Spess Muhreenz, SPHEZZ MUHREENSZ!!

10. Plastic characters would be multipose and have options so we have a reason to buy more than one.
Aren't they already? And why would that encourage more sales?

But hey... I'm not a multimillionaire executive so what do I know?
More than GW, that's for sure.

My post is all in the quote in cyan.

**precinctomega**

I realize this is hard to believe, but the people who really control GW actually do care. Possibly not about you (in fact, definitely not about you), and possibly not about the community at large in any normal use of the word "care", but they care very much about sustaining the company in its niche. There are a lot of reasons why they care and not all of them are laudable. But GW's track record since Tom Kirby's management buy-out has consistently been one of cautious growth, beneath the notice of the big operations who might seek to snapup a "toy" company that grows too far, too fast. Sometimes cautious growth means pulling back when growth has been to rapid.

Having met most of the people I'm talking about, I can assure you that they are not idiots, nor are they incompetent, naive or malicious. On the contrary, whilst not business geniuses, they know their own business extremely well. I may not be much of a customer anymore, and I may happen to think that a lot of KK's ideas would be excellent for the company. But I do happen to think that GW's powers that be aren't doing them for perfect logical reasons.

R.

**Selym**

precinctomega wrote:
I realize this is hard to believe, but the people who really control GW actually do care. Possibly not about you (in fact, definitely not about you), and possibly not about the community at large in any normal use of the word "care", but they care very much about sustaining the company in its niche. There are a lot of reasons why they care and not all of them are laudable. But GW's track record since Tom Kirby's management buy-out has consistently been one of cautious growth, beneath the notice of the big operations who might seek to snapup a "toy" company that grows too far, too fast. Sometimes cautious growth means pulling back when growth has been to rapid.

Having met most of the people I'm talking about, I can assure you that they are not idiots, nor are they incompetent, naive or malicious. On the contrary, whilst not business geniuses, they know their own business extremely well. I may not be much of a customer anymore, and I may happen to think that a lot of KK's ideas would be excellent for the company. But I do happen to think that GW's powers that be aren't doing them for perfect logical reasons.

R.

Other than wondering what those reasons are, I have to admit that I can't blame GW for being a bit gakky at the moment, considering the current economy. For the past several years thay've been growing, and considering that a lot of other things are at a standstill or slowly collapsing, they are holding out marvelously well.
But, when the economy is better (If ever) they would do well to try some of these ideas.

**Kilkrazy**

GW say their business is not affected by economic cycles.

**Selym**

Kilkrazy wrote:
GW say their business is not affected by economic cycles.

Why do I even try to defend anything - my defence is always sabotaged by the very thing I'm trying to defend...

**kronk**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

6. Horus Heresy, based on a BEST SELLING BOOK SERIES would be a mainstream product, available in plastic in stores rather than mail order only resin.

Exalted. My man-crush continues.

**Mr. Burning**

precinctomega wrote:
I realize this is hard to believe, but the people who really control GW actually do care. Possibly not about you (in fact, definitely not about you), and possibly not about the community at large in any normal use of the word "care", but they care very much about sustaining the company in its niche. There are a lot of reasons why they care and not all of them are laudable. But GW's track record since Tom Kirby's management buy-out has consistently been one of cautious growth, beneath the notice of the big operations who might seek to snapup a "toy" company that grows too far, too fast. Sometimes cautious growth means pulling back when growth has been to rapid.

Having met most of the people I'm talking about, I can assure you that they are not idiots, nor are they incompetent, naive or malicious. On the contrary, whilst not business geniuses, they know their own business extremely well. I may not be much of a customer anymore, and I may happen to think that a lot of KK's ideas would be excellent for the company. But I do happen to think that GW's powers that be aren't doing them for perfect logical reasons.

R.

Any company can buy a stake in GW, through share holding, and maybe buy enough to hit the magic number where a buyout can can be placed on the table.

Shareholders should expect some growth on the proposition should they not? Some Institutional investors would be looking to maximise their earning potential and would, maybe, enjoy sustained growth through expansion and diversification.

Surely, exploiting their IP and ideas to the maximum is sound business sense even to the point of take over. GW could grow further still and still not be a viable target for a major to swoop.

**Jack_Death**

Re: Licensing

Total Revenue in the last reporting period = 67.5 million pounds, give or take
Revenue from licensing (royalties) = 434 thousand pounds.
Revenue from licensing = 434/67500 = ~.6% of revenue. Not nearly the largest single revenue stream.
Let's do profit:
Total operating profit before taxes = 11094K
So, licensing = 434/11094 = ~4% of profit. More important as a source of profit than as a source of revenue, which makes sense, but still not nearly the major source.

I would guess that they haven't done additional licensing deals because of a lack of buyers who want to license their IP. Or a lack of the right buyers, maybe.

precinctomega wrote:
Fine. I will spell it out.

If GW grows too big, it will begin cutting into the margins of much, much bigger companies. Why have they not licensed their products for action figures? Why did they pull out of conic books despite impressive (and growing) sales and industry plaudits? Why have they been so very circumspect with licensing when it is clearly their largest single revenue stream?

Because if they get too big, Hasbro will step in, buy up a controlling interest, and annihilate the Hhhhobby as we know it.

**Yodhrin**

precinctomega wrote:
I realize this is hard to believe, but the people who really control GW actually do care. Possibly not about you (in fact, definitely not about you), and possibly not about the community at large in any normal use of the word "care", but they care very much about sustaining the company in its niche. There are a lot of reasons why they care and not all of them are laudable. But GW's track record since Tom Kirby's management buy-out has consistently been one of cautious growth, beneath the notice of the big operations who might seek to snapup a "toy" company that grows too far, too fast. Sometimes cautious growth means pulling back when growth has been to rapid.

Having met most of the people I'm talking about, I can assure you that they are not idiots, nor are they incompetent, naive or malicious. On the contrary, whilst not business geniuses, they know their own business extremely well. I may not be much of a customer anymore, and I may happen to think that a lot of KK's ideas would be excellent for the company. But I do happen to think that GW's powers that be aren't doing them for perfect logical reasons.

R.

That's lovely, and I'm sure they're all very nice chaps to have a pint with, but their personality doesn't speak to their business acumen, that's what the company's publicly available financials are for. You know, the ones that show them dropping from substantial yearly growth to almost none, the ones which show they are hiding steadily declining sales volume with price rises and cost-cutting, the ones that show them at a standstill while the industry as a whole is growing? How about their constant ill-advised legal willy-waving, which has now gone so far that they have a fairly reasonable chance of losing control over substantial portions of their IP in America? And those are just the concrete issues, there's also the less tangible problems, such as the already mentioned above reliance on word-of-mouth advertising while simultaneously advancing policies that seem deliberately designed to drive away their most passionate word-of-mouth advocates?

You don't slow down the growth of your company by doing your damnedest to run it into the ground with counter-intuitive policy.

**Byte**

blood reaper wrote:
Byte wrote:
They don't like money, they only strive for the happiness of their customers regardless of the cost. Our happiness and loyalty is their priority.

I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not. Hopefully you are.

Search your feelings.

**Tethyr13**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

1. The Hobbit Game would be heavily advertised
GW have never been big on advertising because for a small niche company they believe that it results in either explosion growth that collapses (creates a fad destined to die) or becomes like a drug and drag on profits (The belief that in order for your advertising to have the same affect in future years keeps costing more and more (ie, the money spent on advertising has to continue getting bigger but the raw and end results will eventually become constant)). But in the end they BELIEVE it will hurt their basic growth model. The adverts for LOTR gave them a bubble. And I still have my notes on MANY separate speeches Tom Kirby or John Stallard gave on this. Note - they did not do the advertising for LOTR, others did. Also their current licensed products are supposed to fill some of the advertising exposure....but they get PAID for them rather than have to pay for them. Only drawback is that they can't target the exposure....it comes down to their partners.

2. Popular GW tie-ins like the video games, novels and RPGs would be represented on the table top. Rogue Traders and Death Watch would be playable factions. Each month there would be a new special character based on a popular BL character. We'd have 3 versions of Inquisitor Eisenhorn for example and Guant's Ghosts would still have their own rules.
Actually agree on this one.....raven guard, character models, etc. Would be brilliant for them to do more of this.

3. GW would let retailers and fans know what's coming to generate excitement. Stores would hold special events to sell the newest army.
Unfortunately they seem to think they have evidence that this is not the case, and I think the quote from Mark Wells has been on Dakka a lot. Defintely agree on the last one.....and would love some cool ways to do this for even independent stores. (it is amazing how many gamers love just little things like pins or mugs or even pens. special ones they could send out for a quarterly promotion for a certain army would be pretty cool, but would definitely go against their cost cutting model) The support they give stores can be cool and substantial, but a lot of gamers never hear about it because the store doesn't mention the free terrain they got (or even just sells it for extra profit) Instead we get people saying things like they just don't support stores. Tournament support should be there.......redo it, make it cool and release it to TOs. The drawback is the control GW want in relation to their support. This has caused problems for just one store (Rogue Trader stuff) up to big ones like Adepticon. Model origination rules for any tourney they support is an example of this....

4. Starter sets would be a bargain to get fans started on a new army which they would then spend a fortune improving.
I think Dark Vengeance isn't bad. I think retail for just the Dark Angels would be 173.75 (now that being the retail price MAY be another discussion entirely ) I'd rather see different options than just one, but that is me (and probably way too much to invest for them). However, cheaper options might be enticing too. I've always not really liked the battleforces, not because they weren't good places to start (though sometimes have useless units for the army you build), they can be good for new players or bulk buying. But i always thought they should put out force boxes (of course probably a bit more) after about year two of any edition. So you could buy the 40k rulebook, Eldar miniatures, dice, etc. Or you could buy the Tyranid box with the same stuff. (kinda the Mercs model I guess) Make all of the main races that have books available. I thought that could be a good way to get people in when the edition isn't "brand new"

5. GW would still make stand alone games like Space Hulk and would get them into new channels like toy and book stores. And they'd actually stay in production.
OK, this seconded, third and man I wish it was the case. GW made this decision a long time ago when their diverted R&D started affecting what they could get out for the main games and the reaction from gamers started being....I don't want to buy this game because it was a flash in the pan. (this was VERY common in stores and in the earliest stages of the interwebs - even though I still play Necromunda, Mordheim and a whole lot more....flash in the pan or not, I still own them all and can play them) If I'd been in charge I would have found some fiscal way to go the opposite direction and started supporting these games longer - and not half way like they tried with Specialist games.....

6. Horus Heresy, based on a BEST SELLING BOOK SERIES would be a mainstream product, available in plastic in stores rather than mail order only resin.
Again - yes for veterans. And this has all happened after I've been gone a LONG time, but I bet someone has made the decision not to muddy the water for new gamers.....having the extra decision of WHICH time period to start collecting might frustrate the little guys into doing neither. [Note- I'm afraid that is the reasoning. I'd rather FW would put the investment into their own plastic minis. I always want FW to be available to shops (GW or Independent retailers.)]

7. GW would try to keep fans engaged so we don't drift off into other games or hobbies.
In the good old days, your #5 did this. They then tried summer campaigns with mixed success - a lot started cool but most puttered out (or exploded like Storm of Chaos) I don' t think that means they have to make them change the timeline, but adding things to the games based on results could work if done very well. Unfortunately I think it is a challenge they have failed to achieve before....Your number 2 could be used well in this way if they could figure it out.....

8. We'd be able to buy Finecast with confidence the models would be error free.
I must say I have been very lucky - I have no horror stories after buying hundreds of the things. But I've seen em before. Low quality control by GW is inexcusable IMHO. It would have gotten a lot of people gone when I was there. Also, I never was that thrilled when they left metal - I understand the reasons, understand the goals, why their cost estimates were way too low and they raised prices because of it. Still hate it - even though I have been lucky! Then again, I'd love to see Bits and Metals all comes back. I want Citadel Classics as a spinoff company. Make all of the discontinued models again. If done right, it could be good and not just a cost sink.

9. Core products like Cult Marines would be regularly updated instead of focusing on dinobots.
I think this means update the basic troopers more often (If not I'm sorry). Yes would be cool (thought their model of plastics cost of spreading the mould costs out over time makes this a bit harder - not saying it is impossible especially with the lower costs involved, but not how they account for these things). I'd rather they make more variety. For a basic troop set, release 10 models in one box, and ten different models in another. sell both. Lets admit a long time ago two people could collect metal dwarfs and do it with very few of the same models in an army. Now everyone's army is too similar because even if they kit bash to some extent it is still just too many of the same bits. The armies that are truly stunning are ones where everything is a major conversion or departure from the "normal" bits for that army. Making more bits available may change this. Though yes, after a certain time period has gone by, everything should at least be evaluated to be replaced.

10. Plastic characters would be multipose and have options so we have a reason to buy more than one.
Yes - and again, more variety available would be excellent

Ok, my replies are in orange.

Oh, only other reply I'll make. GW has always been good at marketing to CURRENT gamers and customers. They have been good at making gamers WANT stuff. They have not really marketed outside of certain channels because of their belief of the niche nature of the business. Their ability to draw new gamers in has always relied on doorways and demo games. (Independent doorways to expose people and their own stores for the demo games.) They are very good at it when you give them the chance, but it also make them believe that they know their business better than others. In a lot of ways this is very true, lots of the things I read on Dakka are off-base because they are NOT what GW is. But it can put extreme blinders on you as well. I've seen the good, but I've seen them lose their sight as well........

**Agamemnon2**

Mannahnin wrote:
Magic has kept on well, but D&D has taken steps back and lost market dominance.

It's true that Hasbro does not care about D&D. For them, it is the gazebo tacked alongside WOTC's MTG juggernaut. RPGs are on a downswing, and there's now an actual competitive marketplace out there. 20 years ago, D&D was the only game in town (ah-ha), but now there's retroclones and alternatives, from spartan homebrew PDFs all the way to the thriving product range of Paizo's Pathfinder. Ironically, it was WOTC itself that did this, but creating the OGL, a djinn that's long since escaped its lamp and will not be returned thither.