Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm gonna take a snap shot at the snap shot rules, and hope I roll a 6.

So, this won't affect too many models, but I think snap shots should be a modified BS and not automatically BS1. I think it's goofy that you can have a BS8 model, a character that is usually an AWESOME AND PERFECT SHOT, to automatically have the same skill as an ork just because they moved, shot at something in the sky, or have a group of people charging them. To be fair, I think that snap shots should be resolved at -4 BS to a minimum of BS1. This would allow BS6+ models to hit on something other than a 1... just like an ork... or a guardsmen...

How did I roll? ? or ?

Why not just halve the BS. Kinda wish that was the case personally. cuz OH NO'S A FLYER means a Guardsmen is a Marine is a Ork is a Firewarrior is all the dumb.

I think you rolled a 5

Why thank you. Halve BS would be a good idea too, but would you round up or down?

Gooood question. I imagine down. It is still hard to do. DnD rounds Attribute bonuses down and that makes sense there soooooo...But honestly I don't know how the scores come out then. For the most part MEQs will use BS2 and everyone else Is still stuck mostly at BS1. Now:

New Average Snap Shot BS Chart
Marines/Chaos=2
Orks=1
Necrons=2
Eldar=1 (usually re-rolled, I think)
Guard=1 or 2 as per unit
Tau=1 or 2 as per unit/gear (A Markerlight would make them BS4 so Snap at BS2, and any additional Markerlights have no effect since they cap BS at 5.)
Tyranids=1 or 2 as per unit

That chart looks way more reasonable. And remember these were just the most common scores in the armies common units. Not ICs or anything like that.

I guess halving and rounding down would be quite decent since most units will still have BS1 except those who you'd really expect to be able to hit stuff under pressure ie. IG Veterans, Space Marines, Necrons etc.

How ever, that would discourage CC even more.
What I would like, but what is not actually possible in 40k would be to have the attack angle/position matter for overwatch.
Meaning that if a unit charges straight into the defenders guns (the side every soldier is facing) then their overwatch is half their BS rounded down, since under pressure, they can still hit an enemy that runs straight into their guns.
If they charge the flank, then they only fire snap shot at BS 1 since everybody has to spin around to see the enemy and hitting is really just a matter of luck, where an Ork might as well hit while a marine misses.
And finally, if charged from the back, the unit shouldn't have over-watch, since they are completely taken by surprise and have to chance to still fire of shots before being hit.

That would somewhat fix the snap shot issue and bring more tactics into the game. However, it's hard to do... I might try it out with a friendly game some time though.

I think that is reasonable.... Only the best of the best could should back well.... And flamers...

Honestly though... Chuck Norris, Silvester Stallone, Bruce Willis and most other action stars all shoot off the hip at BS 6.

Chuck Norris even sniped a sniper with an unzeroed rifle from a helicopter even though he was a life long Texas Ranger. Even less believable then EOD turning sniper team in 5 minutes in The Hurt Locker.

I would aim for the BS be (-4) during snap shot.

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Gooood question. I imagine down. It is still hard to do. DnD rounds Attribute bonuses down and that makes sense there soooooo...But honestly I don't know how the scores come out then. For the most part MEQs will use BS2 and everyone else Is still stuck mostly at BS1. Now:

New Average Snap Shot BS Chart
Marines/Chaos=2
Orks=1
Necrons=2
Eldar=1 (usually re-rolled, I think)
Guard=1 or 2 as per unit
Tau=1 or 2 as per unit/gear (A Markerlight would make them BS4 so Snap at BS2, and any additional Markerlights have no effect since they cap BS at 5.)
Tyranids=1 or 2 as per unit

That chart looks way more reasonable. And remember these were just the most common scores in the armies common units. Not ICs or anything like that.

So I'm curious as to how you get BS 1 for Eldar. Guardians, Guardian Jetbikes, and vehicles are the only thing that is BS 3. Everything else is BS4 minimum.

 Happyjew wrote:

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Gooood question. I imagine down. It is still hard to do. DnD rounds Attribute bonuses down and that makes sense there soooooo...But honestly I don't know how the scores come out then. For the most part MEQs will use BS2 and everyone else Is still stuck mostly at BS1. Now:

New Average Snap Shot BS Chart
Marines/Chaos=2
Orks=1
Necrons=2
Eldar=1 (usually re-rolled, I think)
Guard=1 or 2 as per unit
Tau=1 or 2 as per unit/gear (A Markerlight would make them BS4 so Snap at BS2, and any additional Markerlights have no effect since they cap BS at 5.)
Tyranids=1 or 2 as per unit

That chart looks way more reasonable. And remember these were just the most common scores in the armies common units. Not ICs or anything like that.

So I'm curious as to how you get BS 1 for Eldar. Guardians, Guardian Jetbikes, and vehicles are the only thing that is BS 3. Everything else is BS4 minimum.

But thats just it, the majority of what we would be shooting in that kind of situation is for assaulted guardians, assaulted bikes, or vehicles taking shots at fliers. That being said there will be lots of units in an Eldar list that are BS4 but even if its half and half saying 1 and admitting he's not sure looks cleaner than a well informed 1.5

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Why not just halve the BS. Kinda wish that was the case personally. cuz OH NO'S A FLYER means a Guardsmen is a Marine is a Ork is a Firewarrior is all the dumb.

I think you rolled a 5

It's not about them being dumb, it's that a machine moving hundreds of kilometres per hour, hundreds of metres in the air flew past and they took a chance, however small, to shoot at it.

Over Watch should be linked to Leadership IMO. The fluff explanation is that panicked soldiers fire off wild shots into their attackers. Characters with high leadership should be able to hit more easily to represent the fact that they wouldn't be panicked.

Well, Flyers are more akin to gunships than planes right now, hardly moving very fast (an APC can go at the speed of a slow flyer in 40K ...)

Should just have kept old Epic / FW Flyers rules where your planes can make an attack run every other turn and where they can be intercepted by other planes

Less presence = less impact, it's nice that there is a new dimension and new options, but it's making too much of an impact right now, and trying desperatly to make them work (more or less) like any other unit didn't prove very efficient

Well, in Zone Mortalis, to fire overwatch, a unit makes an INITIATIVE TEST.

IF they pass, they fire overwatch at FULL BS
If they fail, they fire as BS 1

Granted, Zone Mortalis is meant to be hyper-lethal
I'd take a spin at it and if they pass their initiative test, they fire at half BS.

No reason to shoot assaulting armies in the foot even more, shooting is already king.

Id say half BS is fine.

Im just interested to know how you got 2 hits from Necrons...

the correct answer is 4 (cue the hate on Tesla Weapons)

i was pondering this exact idea the other day and was posing the idea of a flat -2BS to a minimum of 1, though i came up with this specificly to target fliers and remove some of the filthy cheese and also posing the idea of all units with interceptor snapfiring at unmodified BS but that is just my logic

 Griddlelol wrote:


Over Watch should be linked to Leadership IMO. The fluff explanation is that panicked soldiers fire off wild shots into their attackers. Characters with high leadership should be able to hit more easily to represent the fact that they wouldn't be panicked.

This. Though everyone firing at BS1 is probably for balance.

I point you towards my Tesla Point

With the addition of overwatch, the nerfing of power weapons and other such factors, I don't think that shooting needs any more of a boost in power. BS1 is fine. In another edition though, I could see where you're coming from, but I think it'd be better to say, perhaps, that anything with a ballistic skill of 1-4 fires snap shots at BS1, whereas anything with 5+ fires at BS2. Maybe changing them to 1-5 and 6+ respectively.

Imo a squad of boys get too many hits from overwatch and some percent of a low BS unit like them should be excluded from shooting, the highest BS guys should get BS:2.