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So in a local campagin the IG playsers have united to attack the main enemy stronghold , ( 6 of us ) we plan on splitting into 3 Brigades ( 2k per player ) so the enemy we are facing is Chaos Space Marines with Chaos demons , titans are allowed but Formations are not ( thank god ) so this is the Imperiums 3 Brigades compisation

First Brigade -- " High Speed , Low Drag " -- So for our little alliance we've devised into brigades based on specialty so first Brigades job is going to be objective grabbing during middle game and takeing out enemy air assets that are a threat to our armor

229th Cadian Mobile Infantry --- Mainly mech guard , and men in flyers very fast moving , our plan is to use my force with flank march to steam roll objectives with the help of the other two brigades


130th Airborne Jannasairys -- Friend of mine who is useing these as Elysian Drop troops , hes loaded up Vultures , Vendettas and is bringing about 130 bodies mounted in flyers


Second Brigade -- " Knock Knock " -- Again as this game goes these fellows are bringing rediculous amounts of arty to face against the enemy with -

554th Death Korps Seige - This guy is bringing at least 15 Thudd Guns if i remember looking at his list correclty with 10 Fixed Basilisk emplacements , his primary goal is to provide support for Third Brigade who is going to take the biggest whipeing ( presumably , you'll see why ) he is going to be sitting back throwing the Wraith of the Emperor ontop of those who stand against Third Brigade

214th Rocket Artillary Divison - this Guys entire force is dedicated to Assisting First Brigade against heavy armor that we will not be able to effectively combat , the entire army is 12 Manticore Rocket Launchers .........Steel Rain




Third Brigade " Line Breaker " -- This is Where the Entirety of our center line will be engageing , third Brigade is made entirely of Tanks yes one guy in our area has over 60 + leman Russ Battle tanks

2230th Tallaren -- 12 Leman Russ Battle Tanks and 1 Vanquisher ........ enough said there goal is to break the back of the enemies offensive

103rd Tank Destroyers --- ( Guy Modeled his Laser Destroyers like Jadgtigers from WW2 ) his goal is to get into a pissing match with the enemies super heavys , , it consist of 6 Laser Destroyers with camo neeting ect




SUPER HEAVIES !!!!!! ( each Player is allowed 1 )

( First Brigade )
Maruader Destroyer
Maruader Destroyer

Second Brigade

Paetor Assualt Launcher
Paetor Assualt Launcher

Third Brigade -
Warhound Titan ( dual Turbolasers)
Warhound Titan ( Dual Turbo Lasers )





SO what i am looking for your guy's help in is i have absolutly no bloody clue as to how im going to deal with a Full Nurgle based CSM army and Demons , of First Brigade we have a total of 120 AP 1 and 2 Shots , SEcond Brigade has a metric fuckton of Arty , and Third Brigade has around a dozen tank murdering shots

Expected Chaos Troops -

Plague Marines ( Blobs ) what should i ve scared of and how should i deal with them? just sheer volume of fire
6 Defliers ( have seen the guy Field them before )
over 60 + Obliterators ............ Ideas ? ( aside from cry myself to sleep as my chimeras disappear to strenght D weapons
7 or 8 Land Raiders


Chaos Super Heavies -

Nurgle Greater Demon -
x2 Brass Scorpions
x1 Reaper titan



As i have not fought chaos on this scale im looking for all help avalialbe


Imperium Force count

Leman Russ's ( all types ) 13( third brigade ) + 3 ( mine Cadian 229 ) 6 Tank Destroyers ( same chassis but awesome none the less ) -- 22 AV 14 Tanks
Medium Armor ( Centurians and chimeras ) 6 Chimras , 10 Centurians - 16 AV 12
Flyers - 13 ( jannasaries , mixed ven / valks ) 6 Vulture gunships , 2 Vendettas , 6 Sky Tallons , x2 Maruader Destroyers -- 29 Flyers ( SWEET JESUS ! )
Artillarly peices - 15 Thudd Guns , 10 Bassalisk , 12 Manticores , mixed mortars on infantry squads ( 10 - 14 ) -- 37 Arty Peices
super Heavy Armor 2
Infantry - 981 models ( lord commisar screwing with my OCD )


Help is wanted !

Is this all WYSIWYG with real models, or are you guys proxying and using paper titans and stuff?

Well, plague marines are hard to kill, but artilery is quite effective at doing it. Against str 8-9 ap3 weapons like battle cannons and Earthshakers, they will still get their 5+ FnP, but they are wounded on 2+ with no armor save, so I'll say that shelling them with AP3 guns is quite effective, but having a Medusa or two would be more effective. You do however have a fethload of large calibre guns, so I don't think the plague marines should be a problem.

I can't remember if oblitterators are still fearless, but try pinning the non fearless troops if there are any with the thudd guns first, the you can focus fire on the more important targets with the bigger guns.

All the manticores, special weapons and lascannons should go for the land raider first. Your army as a whole is quite resistant to shooting, but not to close combat.

 Peregrine wrote:
Is this all WYSIWYG with real models, or are you guys proxying and using paper titans and stuff?

Everything is WYSIWYG yes Perigrine


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 Bonde wrote:
Well, plague marines are hard to kill, but artilery is quite effective at doing it. Against str 8-9 ap3 weapons like battle cannons and Earthshakers, they will still get their 5+ FnP, but they are wounded on 2+ with no armor save, so I'll say that shelling them with AP3 guns is quite effective, but having a Medusa or two would be more effective. You do however have a fethload of large calibre guns, so I don't think the plague marines should be a problem.

I can't remember if oblitterators are still fearless, but try pinning the non fearless troops if there are any with the thudd guns first, the you can focus fire on the more important targets with the bigger guns.

All the manticores, special weapons and lascannons should go for the land raider first. Your army as a whole is quite resistant to shooting, but not to close combat.

So Target Priority should be primarly on keeping things away from Third Brigade ? Something im worried about is Brass Scorpions , everyone in First Brigade has Melta bombs on all of there troops ( somethinkg like 200 + Melta bombs ) Would it be effective to charge a brass scorpion with multiple units and Melta bomb him untill he goes thermal ?

Yup, you are high on shooty power, so your priority would be to keep the chaos boys out fo melee range, they'll do short work on the tanks (multi-assualt anyone?) laugh at your flak wearing vets and won't find those fixed guns dfifficult to outflank.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yup, you are high on shooty power, so your priority would be to keep the chaos boys out fo melee range, they'll do short work on the tanks (multi-assualt anyone?) laugh at your flak wearing vets and won't find those fixed guns dfifficult to outflank.

.... Everyone in first brigade is wearing carapace . But the main idea is just play keep away ? Something I'm worried about is what effect those defilers will have on our armored wall

Defilers are good, but its still just a battlecannon (which you have what, 14 of?) so it will just scratch your LR wall, make sure to hide chimeras behind them so they don't get too frakked up and you should be ok enough. You have more than enough arty (manticores and the basilisks) to take them out before they really become a threat. The two warhounds should make short work on any superheavies the CSM can put up by working together (always remember, superheavies can choose which weapon to shoot where) and blast large chunks out of their blobs when their tough guys are gone. Try to neutralize the oblits and raiders with your forward line as they are the biggest threat to your AV14 wall, and overall bring the fight to them, just not too close. Take all the midfield objectives then sit back and pound the fortress with arty. Just be careful-if a member of the opponents team chose strategic asset "valuable objective" (ns what its called-makes an objective count as two) and used them in homefield that gives them up to 4 objectives that you are hard pressed to take away. Id suggest you have players to the same in your own deployment zone and guard them well. Overall, make sure your opponent knows that the moment he steps out of the fortress they will get crushed by arty. And be sure to use air superiority in your favor-target his tanks if all he has in the air are hellchickens, they aren't worth the time of day until you start losing transports. Most important: DO NOT TRY TO CHaRGE THEIR DEPLOYMENT. Sorry to be blunt but the way you said it it sounded as if you were gearing up to do so, but last apoc game I played (only 7.5k a side but I assume the logistics stand) all I had to do was grab the ones in the middle or contest the ones I couldn't, and took the asset mentioned which gave my team the win. Getting in the way of chaos with IG is almost as suicidal as standing in front of a land raider and trying to Heroic Stand the thing with a krak grenade. Just keep them in their deployment and take all the midfield objectives you can, and you should come out on top

First Brigade is going to be flank Marching go around to snag those said objectives , do you think this is based on who gets first turn ? They Chaos troops do indeed get to hide behind fortress walls , something that I am also worried about is if they get a gak ton of demons that deeps strike out arty ( lightly guarded by 150 conscripts -
The general idea is our flank march is going to rip them apart as behind the fortress ( it sits on a corner ) is surrounded by water ..... Amphibious landing anyone ? I was talking to the other guy in first brigade , and he is going to parachute in following my amphibious Assualt

You most definitely need more manpower to hold your backfield objectives and guard the big guns, they're the heart of the army because the fewer of them the fewer holes in the opponents hordes. May I ask how big the field is? because if its big enough keep everything clustered near the center of your deployment and any outflanking units shouldn't be able to bother you too much. As for the water landing that's ingenious-just remember due to apoc rules half the unfielded units come in turn 2 the other half turn 3-no rolling meaning you can have the pain in at once instead of piecemeal. I suggest careful planning allowing you to get it in turn 1 then 2, as a distractionary force. Brigade 1 will be hurting most in the first half of the game and may even be wiped out, they are going to be the sacrifice to allow the mainstay of the 3rd to get into position in time, if I'm interpreting correctly

The table is 9x10 and yes you are correct , we did the math and first brigade is going to suffer upwards of 90% casualties , it's goal is to cause havoc and take out important enemy units and take objectives , and the airborne Jannisaries are coming on turn 1 ( asset from campaign ) with my Amphibious force coming on turn 2 , the fortress has 2 layers of walls , an exterior and interior. , neither wall covers the large water area behind it making it a primary landing point for my troops , the only issues with the amphibious landing Is the cargo ships carrying my. Leman Russ 's ( costume rules by sponsor , AV 14 , 10 , 10 , if its destroyed all non infantry models Are destroyed ) , I am worried that they won't land in time , and given the mainstay of my mech forces vets are armed with Plasma , but all have carapace and demolitions equipment ( there is a sea wall that has anti tank mines ( dangerous Terran check , fail = S 10 AP 1 hit on rear armor , and wire ( not worried about that , ) what we've talked about with second Brigade is having all of there arty concentrate on clearing a beach head rather then hitting super heavies , is that smart or stupid ?

Personally? I think its smart, because between the Warhounds and the 3rd brigade they should have at least a turn of free shooting. Combined with the aircav drop to make a beachhead you should have enough room to roll in and take hold long enough for your tank transport to come in (although it should be at least 14/12/10 because it shouldn't sink from a bolter). My opinion: hold the aircav units in transports until turn 2 so they don't get pounded by their own arty. Try to make a big enough commotion the enemy forgets all about the tank transport until its too late. You said that your packing plasmavets, target back tank armor whenever able. The infantry aren't getting far on a 9'x10' to ultimately matter. Target whatever has its rear to you that looks big and shiny. Only when most of his arty/LRAT units die target infantry. Are you playing the Hull Point game or using old 5th ed. rules?


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Also on a 12k a side game on a 9x10 are things gonna be too cramped? aka will there be enough space in the fortress to make a beachhead or is there purely too much to move for one to happen?

We are playing 6th edition rules so yes I can glance hull points , all of the Jannasaries Valkyries have the hell strike missiles as well as his vendettas so I don't think I'll have to worry about to much armor remaining when I roll in , What the main idea I know ( talking to them now ) third brigade takes acts as the anvil , first acts as the hammer - second brigade is talking about hitting all enemies inside the interior wall ( closest point to landing area ) and ignoring the troops on the battlements until later , A fear between the 6 of us is if he has a large scale Demon unit in reserve , 150 conscripts and 300+ guardsmen the Kreig are deploying should help th arty but I'm severally worried about third brigade as they have only tech Preist in chimeras to defend ( each has 5 servitude , 3 with heavy bolters ) also remember every single on of us is taking 2 Masters of Ordanance ( 12 total ) and a campaign rule is we have Foward Observers ( 1D6 scatter , chaos guys idea . Only works with off map arty


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh if the chaos has arty or heavy infantry those will be the only ones in the court yard , all of there troops *should* be on the battlements

The daemons is a worry but with 450 guardsmen waiting to shoot em up I don't think they have the ability to take enough daemons. worry about DP's though, they could fly in and massacre you easily. All in all you planning on playing over a weekend or so? because I recon to get 6 turns it will take at least 2 days. Remember DoW style nightfighting is on turn 1, your arty wont be able to help clear a hole for the 1st, they will have to tough it out. As for the 3rd, remember you need troops to take objectives (unless your Strategic Asset specifically states all infantry) so make sure to have at least 2 chimeras full of infantry per objective minimum

First brigade is packing 6 vet squads in chimeras and the jannasaries are bringing several full air borne platoons , no problem there , and if I recall correctly be actually only owns a greater nurgle demon .... Hmmm and we are taking off work Friday , But you bringing up night fighting shows an excellent point , it will render everything we have practically useless ... I could throw in some Avengers with ilium flares to illuminate targets for arty , A rumor arose today that our resident space wolf player ( the sponsor of the campaign ) is going to drop in mid game with 6,000 points of drop pods led by a rune Preist with Jotww on every unit of wolf guard ..... In support of the imperium , and 6,000. Points of renegade guard coming on table. Learning of this is causing a lot of strife between the brigades , First still wants to launch out combine Air/ Amphibious Assualt but Third is getting edgy about taking that much fire ( 18,000 points on 20 tanks ) with no cover and no infantry support ... But I'm not sure how the space wolves will add to our cause ( the two reenforcing armies act as allies but don't have to help there parent faction )!

Please write up a battle report for this.

Won't have pictures unfortunately

Just wow, that is one huge battle. Pls at least post how it turns out and how many days this battle takes.

Whatever you do do not try to kill plague marines with rate of fire. Kill them with artillery (AP3) and kill the daemons with the RoF weapons as their invulnerables will not be impresive against flashlights.

Your artillery seems like it has a big chance of having deep strikers drop on it and kill it all. Are you planning on keeping the leman russ's as a wall in front and near second brigade? Second brigade needs some sort of buffer from close in deep strikers which will annihilate it. For apocalypse games SITNW conscripts are pretty awesome for this screening purpose.

However it goes it sounds like it will be an awesome game. I recommend using the pre-FAQ multiple barrage rules to help with the thudd gun shooting. Resolving the thudd gun multiple barrage can take hours at that level. (4 shots per gun and 15 guns means 60 barrage shots for him to finish in a single shooting phase).

 ansacs wrote:
Just wow, that is one huge battle. Pls at least post how it turns out and how many days this battle takes.

Whatever you do do not try to kill plague marines with rate of fire. Kill them with artillery (AP3) and kill the daemons with the RoF weapons as their invulnerables will not be impresive against flashlights.

Your artillery seems like it has a big chance of having deep strikers drop on it and kill it all. Are you planning on keeping the leman russ's as a wall in front and near second brigade? Second brigade needs some sort of buffer from close in deep strikers which will annihilate it. For apocalypse games SITNW conscripts are pretty awesome for this screening purpose.

However it goes it sounds like it will be an awesome game. I recommend using the pre-FAQ multiple barrage rules to help with the thudd gun shooting. Resolving the thudd gun multiple barrage can take hours at that level. (4 shots per gun and 15 guns means 60 barrage shots for him to finish in a single shooting phase).

Second Brigade is being guarded by over 350+ guardsmen so im not to worried about that , Third Brigade is going to be in the middle field meaning to soak up damage ( pretty sure everything has camo netting ) but the issue is we ( the imperium) are attacking the equivilent of the Mangot line in warhammer 40k from a frontal assualt ( with the exception of all outflanking First Brigade ) And we plan on using pre - FAQ rules lol , spend 4 hours on one turn of shooting , generally ( im part of first brigade ) will doing an Amphibious landing with my chimera wall

The SW change the whole feel-3k points of precision-guided 1st turn marine assault, possibly INSIDE the fortress helping establish that beachhead will do really well. See if he has dreads with searchlights to help out the arty. You will literally hit the csm with a metric fuckton of ceramite and flesh in the first turn, with more coming in second. No way they will shoot the tank wall steadily moving up for at least three or four turns, they'll be too hurt to do much when they do. The 6k of renegade IG however will be a major threat. Before your opponent had max 72" range; now they have enough to match you shot for shot from their deployment. Not too sure about basilisks but the russes can fire their battlecannons the turn they come in. The basalisks should be your priority target however, any arty poses a major threat to your own arty, and that's the mainstay of your entire force. Leave the brutal work to the puppies, try and mop up weaker units. Fire saturation on the battlements turn 2 minimum, if you take searchlights on your chimeras the thud guns can make it work turn 1. You'll fire off so many templates there is absolutely no way it wont effect them, t5 or not.

i think what we have going for us first turn is insane volume of fire

Yeah just remember its night fighting, you gotta mark targets for the first turn.

Nightfighting can be a problem first turn for a list like what you guys are fielding. Are you taking illum flares? Or will you have searchlight assets available first turn?

Good move using the pre-FAQ rules. Those things are just silly.

Let the tank guys know they need to space the tanks out when targeted with the D-class weapons. The blasts from those things vaporize tank hulls like butter in a kiln, look away and they won't even be on the board.

Karskin229 I cannot believe you are not fielding an all stormtrooper drop force with a name like that. Your pic cries out in anguish!

I'll keep the tank brigade guys updated , and I am actually. Takin 6 vet squads in chimeras and was thinking about switching to 6 Kasrkin squads in chimeras...

Would be even more effective against all that 3+ armor, combine it with plasmaguns and all hell breaks loose

Think my friend from the Airborne Jannisaries can handle the objectives himself ? hes got 130+ airborne infantry

As long ad you and the SW make a big enough distraction ill bet my they can hold at least one of them. You get to place one objective on their deployment, make sure to keep it away from an edge and away from his fortress and divert about half the aircav to it. You can be guaranteed they are putting theirs inside the thing.

Only thing I wanted to throw in is about your Task Force's Order of Battle break out - so not uber-central to the OP's request.

But still: A Brigade of armored vehicles would have around ~120-ish tanks, along (three tank battalions (~30) made up of three tank companies (~10+1 command tank)).

So really, you have three task organized battalions (task organization, also known as a 'Task Force,' being a military formation that you make up of other, ordinary military formations to direct them towards a specific mission). Three 'battalion'-sized formations ultimately make up what would be called a "Brigade-sized Task Force" since you have elements of three battalion-sized groups making up the total sum of the force you're deploying.

So really, you have three Battalion Task Forces that make up what is one total, Brigade-sized force. Could call it a "Brigade Combat Team" - in WW2, it would be called a Regimental Combat Team (Regiment, or Brigade, sized force made up of armor, infantry, etc., task organized for a specific mission).

Just wanted to throw it out to make it more correct for you guys and your group, make it that much more awesome. Otherwise, best advice I can give you is focus down their fire support and then you can rip them apart (ten Basilisks, twelve Manticore, and a couple of Warhounds should help with cleaning up your Obliterator problem).

Oh I know that , I'm in an Airborne division right now , just sounded more catchy then Battalion or task force , so don't oblits have a 2+ save ?

Yes, oblits have a 2+, a 5++ and two wounds, so you will have a hard time taking them out with your artillery, since they should be able to spread out quite a lot. Meltaguns and lascannons would hurt these guys a lot, so the elysian style troops should be able to take quite a few out, but you said that he had MANY oblits, and they do have quite some firepower up close.

Well first Battalion * my troops are bringing 33 plasma guns and the Elysians are bringing 60 something Melta guns