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Greetings All,

After much assistance in deciding which faction I should progress with, I have decided to go with CSM.

The DV starter kit I have contains:

1 Chaos Lord - Kranon the Relentless
6 Chosen - I believe one is a Chosen Champion
1 Hellbrute
20 Chaos Cultists

One of the models in particular I've looked at that is apparently good is the Heldrake, and also Abaddon as my HQ in place of Kranon. I've been told he is an extremely worthy HQ unit but any suggestions are welcomed.

With that in mind, what else should I be looking at obtaining to complete an average sized army for battle. Let's say that cost isn't an issue, I want to field an Army that would make the other fella go "Oh Myyyyy"

Many thanks ,

Banicks

Depends on what kind of army you would like. Abaddon is quite expensive point wise. Ive seen many run a nurgle biker lord with spawn or bikes. The nurgle lord makes plague marines troops, witch is awesome. Abaddon would make your chosen troops, but they are quite fragile at their point cost. I've seen armys with big cultist blobs who can be impossible to get rid of.

Buy abbadon if you want, but stick with kranon as your main choice when making an army. This is because Abbadon is very expensive, and you could fit in a whole squad of terminators instead. As for what you want, I would say lot's of heavy infantry. Definately get a heldrake as it is one of the only chaos models that provides exceedingly good infantry cover. Also, try and cram in 2-3 rhinos as your transports and stick some regular marines in there. Make sure you have at least 2 land raiders as they can be essential, and cram some termies in there as well. Finally, get a daemon engine, specifically a forgefiend/maulerfiend. It's your choice as to which one. Bear in mind that this is just a recommendation for the basis of your army and the rest should be up to what you like the look of in your codex.

Good luck my fiendy friend

Abaddon is deadly in close combat. Can only be threatened by a couple things in challenges. He drops to shooting though, so watch it if you take him. Make sure you have a reliable way to deliver him to the enemy.

I have killed him the first turn he came down with just Eldrad and some pathfinders.

Old Time CSM player:

Abaddon is for really big battles: sucks up too many points.

Do you have a preferred chaos god?
Good start there.

Think of how you want to kit what would be troops.
Remember that the cult elites can be troops if your Lord has the same mark.

Bikes are expensive money-wise but a deal in points. Look into some of those.

I got the Heldrake, nice model but a bit fragile, I pinned it to death to make sure it was rock-solid, not for the casual modeler.

Really, how you like to play will decide for you.
I like the stories of the Iron Legion but a noise marine army is cool when you think of sonic weapons (slight mods to Heldrake and it would be awesome).

Ideas:

HQ: Lord with Mark of cult troops you like.

Elites: Squad of Terminators is tempting, Chosen look really cool from the box set but expensive points wise. Cult troops.

Troops: Big cult squad blob (maybe 2), Couple "normal" CSM squads with a banner of the favored god.

Fast: Bikes, Heldrake.

Heavy: Havok troops (maybe skyfire? expensive though) Defiler for artillery, Vindicator scares the opponent well. Landraider if taking terminators.

May want the terrain option of quad-gun and aegis defence.

Combined arms? in-the-face army? Shooty? Demonic? Any Allies?

Good luck, I chickened out and went with a "Sons of Horus" army or "Black Legion" and paint each type different as separate war bands that joined.

 PsykerInTheWarp wrote:
Buy abbadon if you want, but stick with kranon as your main choice when making an army. This is because Abbadon is very expensive, and you could fit in a whole squad of terminators instead. As for what you want, I would say lot's of heavy infantry. Definately get a heldrake as it is one of the only chaos models that provides exceedingly good infantry cover. Also, try and cram in 2-3 rhinos as your transports and stick some regular marines in there. Make sure you have at least 2 land raiders as they can be essential, and cram some termies in there as well. Finally, get a daemon engine, specifically a forgefiend/maulerfiend. It's your choice as to which one. Bear in mind that this is just a recommendation for the basis of your army and the rest should be up to what you like the look of in your codex.

Good luck my fiendy friend

no offense but basic marines are close to a waste of points.. and rhino rushing them in 6th is suicide... and termies in landraiders? again 2-3 LR worth? you do realise the giant point cost of this... 500 for 2 LR then add termies, then find space for HQ and troops it will be a short list.

as has also been mentioned decide what god or style you really like the look/idea of. that way it goes a bit like

if you like shooty Noise marines are awesome.
if you want tough troops get a nurgle lord and take Plague marines (PM can take 2 Special weapons per squad)
if you want a nice little blob of troops for back field objective holding take 10-20 cultists and reserve them
havoks are a great cheap platform for weapons
Lords are amazing Value for points cost and output, want a fast one put him on a bike

thats a fast list of suggestions at 4am

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 PsykerInTheWarp wrote:
Buy abbadon if you want, but stick with kranon as your main choice when making an army. This is because Abbadon is very expensive, and you could fit in a whole squad of terminators instead. As for what you want, I would say lot's of heavy infantry. Definately get a heldrake as it is one of the only chaos models that provides exceedingly good infantry cover. Also, try and cram in 2-3 rhinos as your transports and stick some regular marines in there. Make sure you have at least 2 land raiders as they can be essential, and cram some termies in there as well. Finally, get a daemon engine, specifically a forgefiend/maulerfiend. It's your choice as to which one. Bear in mind that this is just a recommendation for the basis of your army and the rest should be up to what you like the look of in your codex.

Good luck my fiendy friend

no offense but basic marines are close to a waste of points.. and rhino rushing them in 6th is suicide... and termies in landraiders? again 2-3 LR worth? you do realise the giant point cost of this... 500 for 2 LR then add termies, then find space for HQ and troops it will be a short list.

as has also been mentioned decide what god or style you really like the look/idea of. that way it goes a bit like

if you like shooty Noise marines are awesome.
if you want tough troops get a nurgle lord and take Plague marines (PM can take 2 Special weapons per squad)
if you want a nice little blob of troops for back field objective holding take 10-20 cultists and reserve them
havoks are a great cheap platform for weapons
Lords are amazing Value for points cost and output, want a fast one put him on a bike

thats a fast list of suggestions at 4am

So CSM won't make a good gunline?

In another thread I was told that Cultists are a waste of points, and instead of using them I should take CSM in place for objectives.

If I replaced a gunline with noise marines, would that suffice under Slaanesh? With a Heldrake protecting the gunline, a terminator squad with Abaddon for assault. Would that work?

If I wanted to go Slaanesh totally as Emporer's Children, would I be shooting myself in the foot against melee/opposite gunlines/armour-air?

in a CSM gunline i run preds/forgefiends + havoks +quadgun + maybe hellbrutes. for troops i have noise marines... if your static is 3 shots at 24" and 2 blasts or 3 shots to 48" that ignore cover.

so running at it is close to suicide... if you give the NM champ a doomsiren then thats even more defensive output. and cultists are cheap chaff they are rubbish but you can get 3 for the cost of a marine... go to ground for better cover saves...

and if you have the points spare ally in some tzeentch demons take a herald for prescience, 10-20 pink horrers and a squad of flamers... screamers as well

agian it comes down to how many points.... i normally play 1999+1 and have used the above style before... just beware if you get caught out by say tau who can outgun you at range... yeah that could be all bad.... but thats how the cookie crumbles...

 Banicks wrote:

So CSM won't make a good gunline?

In another thread I was told that Cultists are a waste of points, and instead of using them I should take CSM in place for objectives.

If I replaced a gunline with noise marines, would that suffice under Slaanesh? With a Heldrake protecting the gunline, a terminator squad with Abaddon for assault. Would that work?

If I wanted to go Slaanesh totally as Emporer's Children, would I be shooting myself in the foot against melee/opposite gunlines/armour-air?

I play an all Slaanesh Force, as my "fun" army, and I've had really solid luck with it. Shooty Noise Marines are great, but do not forget that you can build a Noise Marine squad or two for close quarters combat. Generally MoS units are above average in close combat simply because they strike at initiative 5. So go crazy with the Mark of Slaanesh and you should be pretty solid in cc across the board on everything but the shooty nosie marines.

My CQC squad is 6 dudes, all upgraded with an extra ccw and accompanied by a Champion with a Power Sword + Doom Siren [Note, a lightning claw is better than the Power Sword, but I like the look of the sword that came in the NM upgrade pack ] Anyhow, You've got a squad that can drive up in a Rhino, and drop s5 ap3 templates and rapid fire bolters into things. If something decides to charge you, you've got d3 s5 ap3 hits from the Doom Siren and you generally strike first with initiative 5. Especially note your Noise Champ with i5 and ap3 in cc will wipe out most MEQ Sarges before they swing in a challenge. Its not a unit that will stand up to assault terminators or thunderwolf cav in close combat, but its an excellent unit for close range fire fights that can fight adaquetly in close combat.

Also a Slaanesh lord on a Bike or Steed with Sigil of Corruption, Power Fist and Lightning Claw, in a squad of Bikes or Spawn is a close combat monster. You'll need a Slaanesh Lord to make your NM scoring anyway. I like running him in a squad of Bikes. I can outflank them with the Steed if I need to, and they give me a champion who gives me a bit of flexibility with the Champion of Chaos rules.

Hell Drakes are the Chaos "wow" unit. They are incredibly broken as evidenced by how they have single handedly shifted the entire tournament meta game. OFC it is yet to be seen if tau has so much anti air that hell drakes lose some of their scare factor. But seriously, a Hell Drake is a model that can kill things with Vector Stike, then ap3 s6 flame something else- with Torrent no less. Imagine being able on turn 2 to be able to place an ap3 template WHEREVER you like on the board, and being able to do d3+1 ap3 hits in the movement phase as well against a DIFFERENT target... Each helldrake can kill or cripple 2 MSU units per turn, av 12 and the flier rules are just icing on the cake. They are disgustingly good. If you like winning take 2 Hell Drakes, and you will pretty much rofl stomp your opponents unless they have tons of anti air (something like 3 Vendetta Guard allied with Eldar with a Dragon Exarch on a Quad Gun). The only thing Hell Drakes really struggle against is all Terminator Lists and Land Raiders since they are limited to ap3.

That said, one of the annoying things about Helldrakes, is they really centralize Chaos armies. Have you ever seen a posted Chaos List without Helldrakes in the Army List section? The first 5 or so responses will inevitably be "get a helldrake". Its kind of depressing really, and evidences very poor internal and external balance.

O.K. as a fairly new CSM player myself, I have had several discussions with a guy at my FLGS who plays them regularly and is quite successful. He has told me that with your CSM troops give them either MoN or MoK as each will give them the best attributes. As far as running a single god theme that is quite difficult a blended army is better. As for your Lord I have found that a MoT Sorcerer with a Sigil of Corruption in Termie armor with a spell familiar is quite devastating at 2+/3++ is nasty. Stick him in with a MoT squad of Terminators gives him a huge beefy body guard around him. Throw in some MoN bikers for your fast squad and then put some lasecannon predators and definitely advise get some Iron Warrior upgrade Havocs, and get either a Maulerfiend or a Forgefiend for your heavy support. As for cultists, mob rules apply and give them either MoK or MoN, if you choose to run them. I have found that Chosen are just to expensive for their worth, overpriced chaos marines is what they truly are. The fun thing you will find is that with Chaos you can do all sort of different styles and mess with your lists till you find one that works.

@SGrimhart. just a tip mate never mark cultists, it makes them cost WAAY too much for anything, you wont assault with them so MOK is redundant and nurgle is too pricey..

MON is great on bikes, but so is MOS if you want to hit first most of the time.

Good point on cultists .....^ Thanks for the tip. I haven't used cultists yet, so hadn't looked at the point value.

yeah lets call it a 50% increase in model cost.... not worth it

Thanks guys. Going backwards a little, once I've decided upon my army. If I understand correctly, when I run mixed mark CSM force, I am restricted to painting them in one of the following legions:

Sons of Horus/Black Legion
Word Bearers
Iron Warriors
Night Lords
....and Alpha Legion? Lexicanum online indicated "unclear" as opposed to Chaos Undivided.

If I chose World Eaters for example, I would restrict all of my units to being MoK?

Or do I have to paint, for example, Noise Marines as Emporer's Children if I field them?

You can paint models how ever you please. you are encouraged by GW itself to come up with your own unique warband with its own unique fluff, and it may field whatever units you please.

Really Paint your models how you think they'll look best. If you think that Khorne Berzerkers would look amazing in Emporer's Children Colours, then by all means paint them like that! As long as the units are clearly identifiable, nobody will have any problems with it.

There are of course the legions you mentioned in the book, and people will generally expect you to remain somewhat fluffy to those legions if you choose to play them. But that said, if you create your own, you can play pretty much whatever.