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Hmm well i was looking at the BA codex today and i saw GABRIEL F*CING SETH
e.g you miss him he kicks you in the F***ing balls
that might have swayed me.....

Mountain-Breaker wrote:
Yeah he weakened Horus for him. Where as Russ dueled the Emperor himself! Also I dont what flying has to do with anything.... But Russ had the courage and strength to chase the damned legion into the Eye of Terror itself. Where was Sanguinus? Ooh, yeaah.

Also planes or giant Thunderwolves? Cowards who hide in deep strike? Or battle ready warriors who never hide from the fight.

No matter how much you attempt to think of Blood Angeld as better, they never will compare to the glory of the Sons of Russ.

and Flying? Sanguinius had WINGS man he didnt need no jetpack

unless your allegiance to BA is only because they are the closest chapter to chaos... and well we know where that leads

and please id love to sit in a plane going ner ner as i shoot you and you wave sticks at me im all for that

Blood Angels. They have less ridiculous fluff and some pretty interesting successor Chapters (such as the Flesh Tearers!).

Also, check out this copy of Captain Tycho's last fight; a short story that appeared in White Dwarf some years ago. Tragic and epic - like the best heroes.

 Lynata wrote:
Blood Angels. They have less ridiculous fluff and some pretty interesting successor Chapters (such as the Flesh Tearers!).

Also, check out this copy of Captain Tycho's last fight; a short story that appeared in White Dwarf some years ago. Tragic and epic - like the best heroes.

And the Flesh tearers are led by cheif ball kicker of the Imperium

I was going to start BA but am not at SW. I love how they have more ways to model their own guys with the pelts, skulls, ect. The SW fluff is also pretty cool as from what I know they protect the imperium of man and try to save as many people as possible. They also dont agree with the inquisition!

Mountain-Breaker wrote:
Yeah he weakened Horus for him. Where as Russ dueled the Emperor himself! Also I dont what flying has to do with anything.... But Russ had the courage and strength to chase the damned legion into the Eye of Terror itself. Where was Sanguinus? Ooh, yeaah.

Also planes or giant Thunderwolves? Cowards who hide in deep strike? Or battle ready warriors who never hide from the fight.

No matter how much you attempt to think of Blood Angeld as better, they never will compare to the glory of the Sons of Russ.

my god... what has this form become

btw it all doesnt matter the legion forge world book beats all the spacemarine and chaos books anyway, because they can have ing titans in a 2000 point game, yea.. thats fair bring a knife to a gun fight? well they brought a baneblade to a knife fight

blood angels may be flashy cool and awsome, but their rules are below advrige

and wolves are viking drunk wolves whos rules are broken

but legion wins, hands down

Mountain-Breaker wrote:
Yeah he weakened Horus for him. Where as Russ dueled the Emperor himself! Also I dont what flying has to do with anything.... But Russ had the courage and strength to chase the damned legion into the Eye of Terror itself. Where was Sanguinus? Ooh, yeaah.

Also planes or giant Thunderwolves? Cowards who hide in deep strike? Or battle ready warriors who never hide from the fight.

No matter how much you attempt to think of Blood Angeld as better, they never will compare to the glory of the Sons of Russ.

So being able to strike with pinpoint accuracy at the target without having to sit behind cover and shoot it is cowardly? Risking your life by jumping out of a flying-oh yeah the Sons of Russ don't like new tech... buncha old coots they are. Unwilling to adapt. Yeah, Sanguinius died. He died to save the GALAXY! Russ was nowhere to be found. Yeah he chased back the remains, but that's like claiming glory for killing rippers. He chased out the dregs of the chaos force after Sanguinius sacrificed himself to stop the most powerful warlord ever. And in doing so, he made his sons more badass than ever. Cursed, yes, but badass nonetheless. What happened to your primarch? Oh yeah, he went questing in the Eye and never came back.... Abandonment sucks don't it? Ill warrant the BA are a buncha pretty boys out of battle whereas the SW are manly men, but in an arms war who do you think will rule..? and the most important: the rule of cool. We have bloodthirsty maniacs who drop dead after battle. What ya got wolfie?

Mountain-Breaker wrote:
Yeah he weakened Horus for him. Where as Russ dueled the Emperor himself! Also I dont what flying has to do with anything.... But Russ had the courage and strength to chase the damned legion into the Eye of Terror itself. Where was Sanguinus? Ooh, yeaah.

Also planes or giant Thunderwolves? Cowards who hide in deep strike? Or battle ready warriors who never hide from the fight.

No matter how much you attempt to think of Blood Angeld as better, they never will compare to the glory of the Sons of Russ.

Uh... dude? Seriously?

Sangunious would of sacrificed his soul for his legion... Would Russ do the same?

Also, Horus was gonna kill Empy. Sangunious died cause he didn't have the strength to kill Horus... Cause he held the gates by himself, banished a Greater Daemon, then went on the attack to the Vengeful Spirit. The outcome would have been VERY different had Sangy not been really tired...

Also, where was Russ when all the crap on Terra was happening? Chasing leftovers is nothing in comparison to actually fighting a battle.

Lucarikx

The eternal question...

Team Jacob or Team Edward...

I play SW, I like SW but...there are not that many efficient builds you can make with them.

Don't get me wrong they are good but the problem is the following:

Some units in the Codex are SO good that most units are simply not worth taking.

So armies are mostly:
Rune Priests
Grey Hunters
Long Fangs (with Missile Launcher Spam. I am one of the very rare who follows a different doctrine with my heavy weapons)
Occasional terminator or Thunder Wolf Cav.

Sometimes someone will throw a Logan-wing out there but it's not that frequent.

NOBODY plays a Predator in a SW army.
I have NEVER seen a unit of Swiftclaws
I have NEVER seen a unit of Skyclaws
Ever since assault got shafted in 6th ed. Wolf Scouts are slowly disappearing.

Blood Angels units are more interesting regarding one another. No Blood Angel unit is SOOO good as to make half the Codex look like crap.

The difference between a Predator and a Fast Predator is pretty big in terms of efficiency for exemple.

So you can either pick:

A more flexible army who strike from the skies, teleport into battle, have Dreadnoughts chefs that make puree out of tides of models with their blood talons. Drive their tanks 50mph while firing all weapons at Ballistic. Have heavily armored flyers and infantry that sparkle in the sun.

Or

The Sons of Russ...crossing the field of battle in terminator armor shrugging off Lascannons in order to reach their objective and tear out the throat of anything that stands infront of them. Cursed Wulfen which rain rending blows on their enemies. Badasses with Power Fists riding giant Wolves that deliver a fury of S10 attacks and potentially alot more given the right Saga. Devastator who split their fire allowing you to land heavy weapons on 6 targets per turn.

Do you feel sparkly or angry?

You forgot the scout ability on the Baal. So not only can it move 12" it only has to start 18" away (12" if behind LOS blocking terrain)

 Erik_Morkai wrote:

A more flexible army who strike from the skies, teleport into battle, have Dreadnoughts chefs that make puree out of tides of models with their blood talons. Drive their tanks 50mph while firing all weapons at Ballistic. Have heavily armored flyers and infantry that sparkle in the sun.

You make it sound as though BA are still a viable army. SW can win tournaments, BA are lucky to place in the upper half.

To reiterate: If you like winning: SW. If you like fluff and red: BA. The angles are simply not a competitive army in 6th.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:

A more flexible army who strike from the skies, teleport into battle, have Dreadnoughts chefs that make puree out of tides of models with their blood talons. Drive their tanks 50mph while firing all weapons at Ballistic. Have heavily armored flyers and infantry that sparkle in the sun.

You make it sound as though BA are still a viable army. SW can win tournaments, BA are lucky to place in the upper half.

To reiterate: If you like winning: SW. If you like fluff and red: BA. The angles are simply not a competitive army in 6th.

My BA army is doing just fine thank you very much. Granted I don't play tournaments, but I win significantly more than I lose at my FLGS's regular game night.

I was originally planning on posting my thoughts with restraint but after reading some of the comments already posted that idea has gone out of the window so apologies in advance if the tone of this post sounds arrogant- I do appreciate this is just my opinion......

Point 1: A few comments have been made by people here saying 'if you want to win play spacewolves......' I don't think you should be considering whether you'll win when you select an army-it should be about whether you like the fluff- for three reasons: a) because you'll enjoy building/modelling/painting it more and you will likely end up more satisfied with it overall, b) because when next edition comes around your army may get nerfed so you may as well choose one based on point 'a)' and c) because if you're the kind of person that is so hell-bent on winning a game of 40k that you will select your army based on that desire you are probably a bit of a jerk and no one will want to play you except other jerks like you.

Point 2: To the people saying 'BA have more varied units than SW and more viable builds because no BA units are eclipsed by auto-select overpowered ones like Sw' I think they are overlooking what I consider a huge downfall in the current BA codex: Yes there are many viable builds but thats mainly because all of the units do the same thing so it doesn't matter which ones you select. Don't get me wrong, I really like the BA, and I'm not knocking anyone who wants to play them for whatever reason, but they are currently a beginners army presenting no challenge at all in terms of building an army with real synergy because whatever units you choose you end up wanting to do the same thing with them- ASSAULT ASAP. Your job as a BA player/general is basically to move into combat ASAP- there is very little else for you to do. SW conversely have for example cavalry units and the challenges presented by being unable to deep-strike/having access to flakk missiles etc forcing them to build different synergies utilising things they are good at like outflanking(using acute senses) for example. I'm not going to say SW don't have units that jump out at you as obvious choices- they do, but so do most codex's, and at least their units vary between unit types and battlefield roles unlike BA where everyone is jump-assault- Boring. I bought that codex and soon after gave it to a friend- not because I don't like BA- but because that codex was trash and simply wasn't going to provide either a challenge or enough variance of builds to keep me entertained long-term.

Point 3: To the comments saying 'you should play BA if you like fluff more' are you serious? If you are talking about the HH then Yes the BA have awesome fluff in the HH books, but the Wolves have at least as good fluff. If you are talking about recent codex's then I can only assume you have not read the two codex's in question. There's plenty I don't like about how the wolves are portrayed in the most recent codex but overall it absolutely lords itself over the un-inspiring garbage in the BA codex.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the blood angels, (I bought the codex after all because I wanted to potentially build an army of them), they have awesome fluff and Sanguinus rocks, but recent efforts rules-wise are for beginners to the game and will not offer you the same satisfaction long-term as the SW (especially if you are currently playing eldar) where a few years after buying the codex I am still finding new and different fun builds with them instead of deciding which deep-striking /jump-pack /assault units I want to go with my other deep-striking/ jump-pack /assault units.

Orblivion wrote:Granted I don't play tournaments, but I win significantly more than I lose at my FLGS's regular game night.

I hope you don't take it personally if I don't take your experiences seriously then. My old FLGS was full of people who played sub-par lists, and I played a sub-par list so I actually got to play against people. Bringing my tournament worthy stuff just meant people didn't enjoy playing as they'd lose too often.

Psy-Titan wrote:
I don't think you should be considering whether you'll win when you select an army-it should be about whether you like the fluff- for three reasons: a) because you'll enjoy building/modelling/painting it more and you will likely end up more satisfied with it overall

Obviously directed at me. If you bothered to read my posts, you'll see I advocated modelling, painting and fluff for different reasons to choose the separate armies. I also gave winning as a reason which leads me to...

if you're the kind of person that is so hell-bent on winning a game of 40k that you will select your army based on that desire you are probably a bit of a jerk and no one will want to play you except other jerks like you.

Playing to win makes me a jerk? I don't tell you how to play, don't tell me how to play my game. I think telling other people how the hobby should be approached makes you the jerk. You also make that oh-so-terrible assumption that playing to win makes someone a bad sportsman. I suppose when I play rugby on the weekends, it makes me a jerk because I want to win. I should be content with the colours of the jerseys and the novel shape of the ball, rather than indulge in my competitive side.

OP also never stated whether he wanted the choice based on tournament success or on which books he'd like to read along with the army he is building.

ASSAULT ASAP. Your job as a BA player/general is basically to move into combat ASAP- there is very little else for you to do.

Maybe in the 5th edition, but 6th assault is about the worst thing you can do with BA. That's possibly their weakest build.

Wow. Relax. Most of what you just said is unjustified because you've put words in my mouth. Yeah, I see that you advocated modelling etc as reasons for picking an army as well as winning- What I'm saying is imo winning shouldn't come into it at all. It wasn't a personal attack- alot of people on dakka say such things about wolves. Secondly, I never said playing to win makes anyone a jerk-where did i say that? I always play to win. I said selecting which army you play as based on that desire makes you a jerk, IF you bothered to read my post. So you can bin the rant. As for your tactics of not assaulting with a BA army- well, that's a matter of opinion- I'd genuinely be interested in what you are using them for if not assault and I would ask to know more of your tactics if it weren't for the bad tone you've created.

Hey drunken space vikings riding werewolves. I mean the cool factor is so there

The game mechanics of 6th ed really hurt assault and vehicle driven armies. Both are what BA are. With Space pups, though another assault driven army, they are still good in shooting which is a major part of 6th ED.

This is an expensive hobby. If the OP is does not care in losing a lot then go with the army you think you might like to paint and model. If you want to go more of the competitive line of thought then I suggest the Space Wolves because they can still dish out long range, mid range, and short range firepower very well at a good point cost and decent hand to hand combat as well.

Hey guys to be fair and square i think the real warriors are the emo/ teen angsty dark angels

Psy-Titan wrote:


What I'm saying is imo winning shouldn't come into it at all.

Why? I play competitive lists against competitive people. Making a list that can win is half the fun for me. Managing to beat someone who's playing an equally well designed list is the other half. I love the painting aspect of the hobby, and it's a huge reason for why I pick certain armies, but so is the play style. If I can't win with the play style I want, then there's no point in using it. Just because you play 40k as a non-competitive game doesn't mean everyone should.

I said selecting which army you play as based on that desire makes you a jerk

The difference is much larger in your head than it is in reality. If I select a sub-par army or make a sub-par list, I am no longer playing to win; I know I can't.

As for your tactics of not assaulting with a BA army- well, that's a matter of opinion- I'd genuinely be interested in what you are using them for if not assault and I would ask to know more of your tactics if it weren't for the bad tone you've created.

People telling me how to approach my hobby tends to make me hostile. As do people who insult me and others I play against.

I might have started a war..........

The Thousand Sons would just like to say: "Down with the Wolves, long live the Angels!"

OT:
*coff coff*


IT:
it depends.
What do you want from your army? Be competitive? Be cool with your minias? Awesome fluff?

Both the armies are good in all these 3 things, but BA are more CQC, more Angels/-like (Sanguinor, Sanguinary Guard ect) and their fluff is... well it was (re)written by Matt Ward who isn't the best (I don't like him, but hey everyone have a different opinion). But it's okay IMHO.

SW are shooty, oh yes, but they're good in CQC so don't worry (plus they have Grey Hunters, cheaper than standard marine, with +1A). The models are cool, IMHO. I love the Thunderwolf Cavalry. The fluff is awesome, but I it's my preference that speaks for me right now. SPESS VIKING-WEREWOLVES WHO RIDE WOLVES! Wolfception.

Rally Sons of Russ! Rally! We will not let these petty ones of Sanguinor have victory! They have never before, and they will not now!

I know this isn't a list thread, but BA become hyper competitive if the x2 force organization is opened up...

I've been really good at objective games with 2,500 point lists that look like this:
6 squads of jump pack DC, 3 men each, 1 power glove min
3 scout squads x10 , combat squadding to light/hvy wpns
3 tac sqs x10, combat squadding into a hvy/light won groups
Astorath
2x Baal press outflanking
A captain o other HQ

The tac and scout squads no longer have to chase down nearby goons...and mini tac squads get pretty nasty for turn 1 cc...


Problem...most 40k tourneys are going to solid 1,850