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Glad to see he updated the main page with the 20%. I'll probably throw in for a fair number of bases. It's not looking good for getting my trenches though which makes me a bit sad.
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
Hulksmash wrote: Glad to see he updated the main page with the 20%. I'll probably throw in for a fair number of bases. It's not looking good for getting my trenches though which makes me a bit sad.
Its $33,879 away from the first 'Fantasy' tileset, and it should hit that in another day or so.. then hopefully all the people complaining that there wasn't a Fantasy/Historical option will jump on and we'll cruise past the temple and onto the Trenches in the last few days.
Aaaaaaargh, why do the urban terrain tiles have to be a 7x7 grid of flagstone? That's no damn good for any gridded game that might want to make use of the flagstones as the gird, no matter what size the game uses. 12/7th's of an inch is a terrible dimension, why not just make them 1 inch or 1.5 inches?
If they were 8x8 (or even 12x12), they would have been perfect for deadzone since they'd work perfectly with the 3" grid system that that game uses, with a suitable paintjob.
Seems like a bit of an oversight to not be offering a 2x2 deadzone board made up of just the plain clean urban building base tile considering how Mantic are going to be selling these in the UK anyway.
Mantic are just making a rubber mat for their game, but I'd have totally gone for $50 on this if there was an 8x8 grid on the urban streets and an option to buy individual tiles.
Any room for throwing in a single 8x8 (or even better 4x4 since deadzone and all its terrain uses a 3" grid) urban tile specifically for deadzone, then selling it as a 2x2 set? You'd have one hell of a seller on your hands there, I can't think of any deadzone backer who *wouldn't* want to put down $50 for that.. maybe you could talk to mantic and get them to offer it through their KS with you as the supplier?
Come on dude, big opportunity here! That's an absolutely no-brainer way to raise at least another $50k with a single tile, along with a hell of a lot of post-release sales.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/04/28 15:38:23
Hulksmash wrote: Glad to see he updated the main page with the 20%. I'll probably throw in for a fair number of bases. It's not looking good for getting my trenches though which makes me a bit sad.
I THINK I remember that they intend on making all of the sets, even the unfunded ones. Just without the mold-cutting expenses paid via KS, the unfunded themes will be a lot longer down the road.
Awesome, looks like you'll be getting some cash out of me after all.
7x7 to make it tough to pre-measure is quite smart thinking for the basic streets (you really do think of everything, don't you? :p). I'm wondering if taking the other option of 1" tiles, or doing a separate tile for that might be good for dungeon delver games and such. The flagstone tile looks lovely and generic, like I could use it for mordheim as well. Something you'd have to eye up, it's likely that keeping the 7x7 as it is and then doing a seperate different one (not intended for use with the streets) is likely to be the ideal option if doable.
If it's possible to make an entire type of board using only one tile repeated then you're on to some easy money there IMO.. not every style of board that people might want necessarily requires 8 different tile variants to be a high-quality product.
Oh, and a Deadzone board could be just about usable for dust tactics in a pinch, it uses slightly larger tiles (another weird dimension - 3.66" square tiles) but not by much, worth noting as a selling point since DT is also huge.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2013/04/28 16:15:06
misterjustin wrote: @ scarletsquig -- we went with a 7 tile grid on the Urban foundations and sidewalks to help make it tougher for people to pre-measure.
Please consider what you just said: you went with a 7 tile grid specifically because a 6 or 8 tile grid would be useful. And it's still not very difficult to remember that 3.5 tiles = 6".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/28 16:02:04
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
Useful, yes - but the only common complaint I've received about the 12" tiles is that they make it easier to pre-measure. Anything we can do to mitigate that is also useful.
Of course it all has to balance out in the end -- and being able to offer a Deadzone board would be... very, very useful.
misterjustin wrote: Useful, yes - but the only common complaint I've received about the 12" tiles is that they make it easier to pre-measure. Anything we can do to mitigate that is also useful.
Of course it all has to balance out in the end -- and being able to offer a Deadzone board would be... very, very useful.
Sorry for being a bit of a noob when it comes to things other than 40k, but why is being able to pre-measure a bad thing? Are there a lot of games where it's disallowed? I personally would love to see a 1" grid, specifically to make it easy to move troops without even needing a tape measure (at least some of the time).
What I'm wondering is what makes these plastic tabletops so pricey. It may just be the size of the darn things, the non-EB prices are around $7-9 per tile which seems pretty reasonable... it's just that when you need 24 of the dang things it adds up. I like the idea of them, and I think they're looking good, but I'm left scratching my head as to if it's a good idea or if I'd be better off building my own. I don't mean to be a ray of negativity, I'm just trying to see the value because I really do like the idea.
When it comes to plastic, it's not so much the piece itself that's expensive, it's actually fairly cheap, but the costs of the molds is insane. We've been looking into plastics for Blackwater Gulch, just just to compare one quote for a 4x6" mold is $8000, 6x8" around $12,000 .. so I would imagine a mold for a 12" square would be quite expensive. So if you have 8 molds for 1 set of tiles, the cost to get 1 set produced is probably ginormous. And then the manufacturer will have a minimum order on top of that, so maybe they need to order 1000 copies no matter what. So between that and the price of the molds, the sets gotta be priced in a way that they make money in the end too. All things considered, I think these tables are quite fairly priced.. I wish I had more cash to get more sets, but can only afford the 1 for now.
I suspect it's a fair price myself; the two other products like this that I've seen have been pricey as well. I had no idea that getting the molds would be so expensive, although Justin has said that the $80k/set *only* covers the cost of making the molds which jives pretty well with what you're saying as well. I suppose 'Why so expensive?' wasn't quite the question I wanted to ask.
I'm still trying to see the value though. Regardless of the cost to produce, what makes this worth $200 for a 4'x6' table when you could scratch build something for less than a quarter of the cost, and not run into any issues of repetitive textures or seams between panels? The main reason I can think of is that I've yet to actually sit down and make a quality gaming table for myself. The second is that plastic is a heck of a lot more durable than pink insulation is. I believe that these Tablescapes probably will look nicer than what I would scratch build, but that the limitations that come with Tablescapes (repetition, fixed options for tiles, tile seams) would balance that out somewhat; if nothing else I've played on some Realm of Battle boards and they're nice, but they're not $300 nicer than a flocked board with a few interest features.
It leaves me wondering if maybe plastic isn't the correct solution. I've seen some latex mats that have a little less detail than the Realm of Battle boards (excluding the hills... a soft latex mat isn't going to do that kind of elevation) for a considerably lower price. It would be useless for trenches, but I could see rivers working with it (since you don't need a huge height difference for the illusion of depth) or an urban setting. The downside is that they're not modular.
I don't know. I really like the idea of these things, and I fully expect them to look great. Justin seems like a nice guy and I doubt that he's rubbing his hands together, laughing maniacally, and plotting on how he's going to spend is filthy lucre. I feel like a bit of a dick questioning this at all, but I'm trying to sell myself on the things. If only I was so thoughtful regarding Games Workshop.
misterjustin wrote: Useful, yes - but the only common complaint I've received about the 12" tiles is that they make it easier to pre-measure. Anything we can do to mitigate that is also useful.
Of course it all has to balance out in the end -- and being able to offer a Deadzone board would be... very, very useful.
Sorry for being a bit of a noob when it comes to things other than 40k, but why is being able to pre-measure a bad thing? Are there a lot of games where it's disallowed? I personally would love to see a 1" grid, specifically to make it easy to move troops without even needing a tape measure (at least some of the time).
Some games do some don't eg Malifaux and I think Warmahordes (and presumably Necromunda being based on 2nd Ed 40k) don't allow it but 40k, WHF, Hell Dorado and Warpath do to throw a few names about.
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
misterjustin wrote: Useful, yes - but the only common complaint I've received about the 12" tiles is that they make it easier to pre-measure. Anything we can do to mitigate that is also useful.
Of course it all has to balance out in the end -- and being able to offer a Deadzone board would be... very, very useful.
I previously commented on asking for a 12x12 grid. I was hoping to use this for FFG games (a grid pattern would be great even if it was not on the roads.
Also, any chance of swapping around the trenches and the temple (ask the comments section... funny feeling the trenches are going t obe the biggest driver of this campaign (as they are so unique!)
I don't think this suggestion has come up before (I've read all the posts, but not all AT ONCE) but, have you considered making a single tile with just the plain dirt texture as an add-on purchase?
That way, people who wanted to minimize 'featured' tiles for whatever reason (repetition, etc). could easily add on 1, 2, 4, or whatever 'plain tiles' to suit them.
This would benefit people who had things like fortifications and buildings, which might not set flat on a tile with raised detail, and also allow modelers to take a 'foundational' tile that would interlock with your board and add their own buildings, hills, terrain, etc. to it easily.
That tile would have minimal modeling costs, but on the other hand, it might be too niche to bother doing an expensive mold for it. However, you might run a poll or something to see if it is something that people would pony up additional cash for.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/29 03:54:28
Da Butcha wrote: I don't think this suggestion has come up before (I've read all the posts, but not all AT ONCE) but, have you considered making a single tile with just the plain dirt texture as an add-on purchase?
This has been covered a fair bit near the start of the campaign.
The short answer is not possible at the moment as the cost for logistics around a single tile are too high. At the moment they are created in sets of 8 or 16 and then packed efficiently, single tile processing would increase the overheads dramatically. As he is only covering the cost of the milling and not other associated costs this is just too much of a burden to bear.
After $500k (if they hit that)... totally different story... but I doubt that would happen as more likely to get resin add-ons for free.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/29 04:15:07
That's a shame as I have a lot of card and plastic scenery acquired over the last 20 years that IU would happily mount on a "plain" tile permanently - perhaps a set of "plain" tiles might appear as a later stretch goal if this does go mad.
If there's demand for single plain tiles then there is probably decent demand for 8-packs....anyway, fingers crossed.
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
What I'm wondering is what makes these plastic tabletops so pricey. It may just be the size of the darn things, the non-EB prices are around $7-9 per tile which seems pretty reasonable... it's just that when you need 24 of the dang things it adds up. I like the idea of them, and I think they're looking good, but I'm left scratching my head as to if it's a good idea or if I'd be better off building my own. I don't mean to be a ray of negativity, I'm just trying to see the value because I really do like the idea.
When it comes to plastic, it's not so much the piece itself that's expensive, it's actually fairly cheap, but the costs of the molds is insane. We've been looking into plastics for Blackwater Gulch, just just to compare one quote for a 4x6" mold is $8000, 6x8" around $12,000 .. so I would imagine a mold for a 12" square would be quite expensive. So if you have 8 molds for 1 set of tiles, the cost to get 1 set produced is probably ginormous. And then the manufacturer will have a minimum order on top of that, so maybe they need to order 1000 copies no matter what. So between that and the price of the molds, the sets gotta be priced in a way that they make money in the end too. All things considered, I think these tables are quite fairly priced.. I wish I had more cash to get more sets, but can only afford the 1 for now.
I suspect it's a fair price myself; the two other products like this that I've seen have been pricey as well. I had no idea that getting the molds would be so expensive, although Justin has said that the $80k/set *only* covers the cost of making the molds which jives pretty well with what you're saying as well. I suppose 'Why so expensive?' wasn't quite the question I wanted to ask.
I'm still trying to see the value though. Regardless of the cost to produce, what makes this worth $200 for a 4'x6' table when you could scratch build something for less than a quarter of the cost, and not run into any issues of repetitive textures or seams between panels? The main reason I can think of is that I've yet to actually sit down and make a quality gaming table for myself. The second is that plastic is a heck of a lot more durable than pink insulation is.
You said it yourself. Time. Repetiveness of a single board (vs tiles for a modular board). And flocked foam almost always looks like crap.
OTL Games finally made it into an official update!
Video Preview - Scrap Yard Fortifications
Update #32
People have been asking me for a better look at the wall/fortification sets (and I have been using the two terms interchangeably, sorry about that!) and I decided that a video would go much further than any series of photos could.
These are the finished, resin cast product for the "Scrap Yard" fortification set -- which you can get as part of the Deluxe reward levels, or as an add-on to any pledge.
Each theme will include a fortification/wall set and themed scatter terrain. The "Urban Streets" set will include clean and damaged version of concrete barriers inspired by modern military fortifications:
"Rolling Fields" will have a set of rough-hewn stone walls, and scatter terrain that includes boulders and small thematic touches. For "Ruined Temple" we'll offer a set of smooth cut stone walls, with scatter terrain that gives a feel for various temple themes.
But... we're not going to stop there.
Tablescapes has a future with Secret Weapon, and we're going to be working to bring expansion sets, and new terrain elements, to each of the themes. Like this tower for the "Scrap Yard" set.
I know, I know... it's freaking amazing! Of course it's so big that we'll have to offer it as a multi-part plastic kit. We've already priced this and once we recover from the campaign madness we'll start looking at expanding the offerings with pieces like this -- that won't have any impact on delivering the tile sets themselves!
"Rolling Fields" could unlock any time now. If you know folks that were waiting for the fantasy themes -- get them in here! The next two themes will appeal to fantasy and non-fantasy players alike, but we won't unlock them without new backers.
Thank you (AGAIN!) for your continued support and enthusiasm. I'll have another update before long -- including news about a bag option from KR Multi-Case, and a free PDF from On The Lamb Games!
Good to see hints of what's to come later on down the road, and that SW is going to be supporting these sets well past the KS Campaign!
So, KR's being brought in on this. Did BF drop their support?
-Loki- wrote:
40k is about slamming two slegdehammers together and hoping the other breaks first. Malifaux is about fighting with scalpels trying to hit select areas and hoping you connect more.
The tower suffers from the same problem as the rest of the Scrap Yard: how many identical aeroplane tails with identical added scrap-bits is someone going to want or need on their table?
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
Can anyone explain the shipping options to me? Sometimes the words 'free shipping' are used and sometimes 'free international shipping'. Are they actually being used interchangeably? If not, the shipping costs might price me out of this one (like it did with Dwarven Forge).
Anything that's part of the actual kickstarter, the boards and NEW terrain and NEW bases have their shipping cost included in the pledge level cost there is no extra shipping charge.
If you want to buy any of the current SW range that is being offered at 20% off then you pay the standard SW shipping charge for them only as they will be posted separately after the KS ends.
AlexHolker wrote: The tower suffers from the same problem as the rest of the Scrap Yard: how many identical aeroplane tails with identical added scrap-bits is someone going to want or need on their table?
Yep, when they were considering going from 16 to 8 unique tiles for the scrapyard set I wasn't happy. That would have gotten me to drop my pledge. Two of each (I'm only getting 16) in that theme was a deal breaker for what I want them for.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
AlexHolker wrote: The tower suffers from the same problem as the rest of the Scrap Yard: how many identical aeroplane tails with identical added scrap-bits is someone going to want or need on their table?
Probably just one. Which is all you would need to buy.
-Loki- wrote:
40k is about slamming two slegdehammers together and hoping the other breaks first. Malifaux is about fighting with scalpels trying to hit select areas and hoping you connect more.
AlexHolker wrote: The tower suffers from the same problem as the rest of the Scrap Yard: how many identical aeroplane tails with identical added scrap-bits is someone going to want or need on their table?
Probably just one. Which is all you would need to buy.
Yeah, that was my point. Compare to something like the Trench table: two or three identical bunkers on a defensive line won't look weird, but two or three identical aeroplane tail towers might. So people are more likely to buy more of the former than the latter, which makes it easier to pay for your moulds.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
