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Made in us
Angry Chaos Agitator






Dallas, TX

In 6th edition, one can only reserve half their units, if I understand correctly.

But if one takes a drop pod for every unit, they can all be reserved because the Drop Pod rules force them into Reserve, and then arrive, half rounded up on turn 1. Right?

If one has, say 5 Drop Pods and a unit of Terminators and an Assault Squad, can one reserve the latter 2 and Deep strike them using the Locator Beacons from the Pods that landed on turn 1? Or are they forced to be deployed because the DPs are already in reserve?

I am using C:SM Drop Pods, btw.
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

You COMPLETELY ignore any units that have to start in reserve for the purposes of counting up - so in your example, you ignore the drop pods and their contents. This leaves you just the Terminators and the Assault Squad, so you can reserve one of them but must deploy the other.

Regarding the locator beacons, you can use them for the Termies or Assault Squad as long as the Drop Pod was already in play at the start of the turn. If it arrived that turn too, it's a no-go.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in us
Angry Chaos Agitator






Dallas, TX

Followup question.

Can I combat squad a tactical squad, and put half in the pod and deploy the other half? Say, a meltagun and a Sgt with a combi-melta in the pod, and 4 marines and a Lascannon guy deployed in terrain?

And if so, does the Lascannon squad count as another unit at that point, allowing another Deep Strike reserve selection?
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Yes, and yes. Those are valid deployments, and no rules that I'm aware of contradicts them.
   
Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine




United States

You COMPLETELY ignore any units that have to start in reserve for the purposes of counting up - so in your example, you ignore the drop pods and their contents.


do you have a reference for this, I haven't seen it but would be intrigued to share it with others if it ever came up.


Regarding the locator beacons, you can use them for the Termies or Assault Squad as long as the Drop Pod was already in play at the start of the turn. If it arrived that turn too, it's a no-go.


also, where this one is.
I figure if the drop pod is on the table, it's locator beacon is in play.

2000+

"Can we stop saying CCSM and CSM to just say CSM and SM? I mean really, don't we already know they have a codex? Plus my colon key is broken."  
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

yukondal wrote:
You COMPLETELY ignore any units that have to start in reserve for the purposes of counting up - so in your example, you ignore the drop pods and their contents.


do you have a reference for this, I haven't seen it but would be intrigued to share it with others if it ever came up.


BRB, pg 124, "Preparing Reserves", second and third sentences.


Regarding the locator beacons, you can use them for the Termies or Assault Squad as long as the Drop Pod was already in play at the start of the turn. If it arrived that turn too, it's a no-go.


also, where this one is.
I figure if the drop pod is on the table, it's locator beacon is in play.


Assuming C: Space Marines, it is right in the rules for Locator Beacons on page 67 of the codex. Last sentence.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Pyrian wrote:
Yes, and yes. Those are valid deployments, and no rules that I'm aware of contradicts them.


The combat squad rule contradicts this. You must deploy the entire squad in the same manner. You can split before deployment, but they are still treated as one unit for deployment. If you hold half in reserve the other half is reserve, if you deploy half the other half must deploy.

EDIT: OP's original question cause I"m not arsed to multi-quote: Can I combat squad a tactical squad, and put half in the pod and deploy the other half? Say, a meltagun and a Sgt with a combi-melta in the pod, and 4 marines and a Lascannon guy deployed in terrain?

And if so, does the Lascannon squad count as another unit at that point, allowing another Deep Strike reserve selection?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/05 00:09:18


 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

andystache wrote:
The combat squad rule contradicts this. You must deploy the entire squad in the same manner. You can split before deployment, but they are still treated as one unit for deployment. If you hold half in reserve the other half is reserve, if you deploy half the other half must deploy.

This used to be the case, but the Combat Squad rules was re-written in the FAQ for 6th edition. The decision to split them now happens before deployment, rather than as they are deployed, and there is no longer a requirement for both combat squads to be in reserve.

 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




Quick clarification. Can i drop pod my whole army.
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut



Aizuwakamatsu, Fukushima, Japan

If your whole army (with the exception of at most one unit) is embarked in Drop Pods, yes.
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

Chrysis wrote:
If your whole army (with the exception of at most one unit) is embarked in Drop Pods, yes.

What?

The whole army can be embarked on drop pods.

Why would there need to be a one unit exception?

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




You are able to have a whole drop pod army, but sadly the entire squad MUST arrive via the drop pod.

You are able to combat squad the unit on arrive, but can't only have a combat squad in the drop pod and the other half already on the field. This is under the drop pod special rules and made me sad when I read it.

Sam918
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

sam918 wrote:
You are able to have a whole drop pod army, but sadly the entire squad MUST arrive via the drop pod.

You are able to combat squad the unit on arrive, but can't only have a combat squad in the drop pod and the other half already on the field. This is under the drop pod special rules and made me sad when I read it.

Sam918


You can with the FAQ. As Insaniak pointed out, you decide whether to combat squad before deployment.
In this case, it means the combat squad that's on the pod is not counted for reserves. The squad that's on the table does.

If your entire army is in pods, none of them are counted for counting up reserves, so the 50% limitation never comes into play. However half of these (rounding up of course) will arrive on Turn 1 so unless you manage somehow to mishap every single one you won't auto-lose the game from not having a unit on the table.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Denver

 Super Ready wrote:
sam918 wrote:
You are able to have a whole drop pod army, but sadly the entire squad MUST arrive via the drop pod.

You are able to combat squad the unit on arrive, but can't only have a combat squad in the drop pod and the other half already on the field. This is under the drop pod special rules and made me sad when I read it.

Sam918


You can with the FAQ. As Insaniak pointed out, you decide whether to combat squad before deployment.
In this case, it means the combat squad that's on the pod is not counted for reserves. The squad that's on the table does.

If your entire army is in pods, none of them are counted for counting up reserves, so the 50% limitation never comes into play. However half of these (rounding up of course) will arrive on Turn 1 so unless you manage somehow to mishap every single one you won't auto-lose the game from not having a unit on the table.


Was there anything that actually changed how the Drop Pod ruling for combat squadding worked? I don't have my Codex but I believe pg. 69 states that when deploying from the drop pod, you combat squad after you deep strike.

::1750:: Deathwatch 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




You can combat squad from a drop pod.

You can't combat squad before leaving the drop pod. eg only putting 5 men in the drop pod and the other 5 already on the board or in reserve.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

SM FAQ wrote:
You must decide which units are splitting into combat squads,
and which models go into each combat squad, immediately
before deployment. A unit split into combat squads therefore is
now two separate units for all game purposes including
calculating the total number of units in the army, and the
number of units you can place in reserve. Then proceed with
deployment as normal. Note that two combat squads split from
the same unit can embark in the same transport vehicle,
providing its transport capacity allows.


Squadding is done pre-deployment.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

Thanks Happyjew, I couldn't get to the FAQ at the time to quote it.
You USED to combat-squad after turning up in the pod. The FAQ changed this.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I dont have my BRB here at work, but I thought I read under drop pod reserves that units that had drop pods as their dedicated transport counted as towards the rule of how many pods come in turn 1. So of course everyone could be in pods, but only 50% can come in turn 1, and a HQ with the unit that had the pod as its dedicated transport would count as two.

Correct?
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

If a vehicle has to start in reserve it does not count for Reserve purposes. Any embarked unit also does not count.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

For full disclosure - it's not just any vehicle, it's any unit whatsoever. Best examples that spring to mind are flyers (though not FMCs), drop pods and drop pod "equivalents" like Tyranid spores. I can't think of any units that MUST start in reserve that aren't vehicles, but that's not to say there won't be any.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 Super Ready wrote:
I can't think of any units that MUST start in reserve that aren't vehicles, but that's not to say there won't be any.


Lictors (including Deathleaper), Mycetic Spores (obviously) and their contents, an argument could be made for Spore Mine Clusters (they do have to DS in)..and that is all I can find at the moment.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

Don't Chaos Daemons have to start in reserve too? Or am I wrong on that?

Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 Jimsolo wrote:
Don't Chaos Daemons have to start in reserve too? Or am I wrong on that?


They used to, but not anymore with the new codex.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in au
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot





Australia

I just studied this EXTENSIVELY. I'm going to fully clarify it for anyone out there who has further questions. I assure you I am using all the correct terms and have double checked.

Step 1- combat squad units. (At this point the two combat squads become completely separate units.)
Step 2- roll off for 1st deployment.
Step 3- Decide who is going in which transports and/or going into reserve. And which independent characters will be joining units.
Step 4- Check that you haven't gone over your 50% limit on reserves. Ignoring any units that MUST be held in reserve, and units that are in transports that MUST be held in reserves. As you can see, it's impossible to count for the limit without having already organised your reserves.

Note the exception to the one unit per transport rule in the combat squads rule.
Note that independent characters in drop pods do not count toward the 50% reserves limit (deep strike rule).
Note if both combat squads are in the drop pod, you only roll once for the lot to arrive together (reserves rule).

Eg: if you have one combat squad on foot, and another in the drop pod with an independent character, only the one on foot counts toward the 50% reserves limit.

See- Reserves BRB 124 and Deep strike BRB 36. Combat squads in any Space Marine FAQ or digital codex.

 
   
Made in us
Sister Oh-So Repentia






yukondal wrote:


also, where this one is.
I figure if the drop pod is on the table, it's locator beacon is in play.


If the rules for Bacons where the same as the old Chaos Icons, then it says it in the rules under that piece of equipment.
   
Made in us
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm






If you start your whole army in drop pods, you lose the game immediatley IIRC

might just be the start of your first turn, but if your opponent plays first i think you lose



just a heads up

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/07 07:50:09


4500
next army 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Zheak wrote:
If you start your whole army in drop pods, you lose the game immediatley IIRC

might just be the start of your first turn, but if your opponent plays first i think you lose



just a heads up

End of any GAME TURN, not (start of) player turn.
   
Made in no
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Norway (Oslo)

nove1485 wrote:
Quick clarification. Can i drop pod my whole army.


you cant cuz you gonna auto loose because of no units on the battlefield wich is needed to have to arrive from reserve

Waagh like a bawz

-
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6250 points 9/3/1 (W/L/D) sixth-ed
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Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




phatonic wrote:
nove1485 wrote:
Quick clarification. Can i drop pod my whole army.


you cant cuz you gonna auto loose because of no units on the battlefield wich is needed to have to arrive from reserve

Nope, again someone not reading the rules correctly

You dont need ANY models on the board in order to bring on reserves. If you disagree, please provide a page quote stating that requirement.

You only autolose if, at the end of any ***game*** turn, you have no models on the board.
   
Made in us
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader




Pacific NW

RESERVE (page 124)
When deploying their armies, players may choose not to deploy up to half of their units (rounding up) keeping them in Reserve to arrive later.
Units that must start the game in reserve are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so. A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes.
Independent Characters count as separate units regardless if they have joined another unit or not.

DEEP STRIKE (page 36)
When working out how many units can be placed in reserve, units that must be deployed by Deep Strike (along with any models embarked upon them) are ignored.
In addition, a unit that must arrive by Deep Strike (such as a Drop Pod) must do so even if you are playing a special mission where the Reserves special rule is not being used.

AERIAL SUPPORT (page 80)
Flyers must begin the game as Reserves - it takes time for a Warlord to organize and coordinate air support.


Above are the relevant rules you need to know about. The only other one that would be important to know is that if you have no units on the table at the end of any Game Turn you automatically lose (Page 122). Note, that's Game Turn. Both Players have a Player Turn every Game Turn.

So, yes! You can have a 100% Drop Pod army. Because of the Drop Pod Assault special rule you won't even lose the game because on your own Player Turn you get half of them automatically. The only catch is, you can only have 1 Independent Character. If you take two Librarians, one of them has to start on the table unless you deploy another unit on the Table.

With Battle Brothers you can have some fun shenanigans with Reserves actually. Here' s a list I was running for a while:

Spoiler:

PRIMARY DETACHMENT
HEADQUARTERS
Bjorn the Fell-Handed (270 points)
with Plasma Cannon, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with Built-In Heavy Flamer, Smoke Launchers, Wolf Tail Talisman, Saga of Majesty

TROOP
Grey Hunter Pack (230 points)
Grey Hunter (5) with Power armor, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades
Grey Hunter (2) with Power armor, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Meltagun, Frag and Krak Grenades
Grey Hunter (1) with Power armor, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades, Wolf Standard
Grey Hunter (1) with Power armor, Mark of the Wulfen, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades
Grey Hunter (1) with Power armor, Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades
Drop Pod with Storm Bolter

Grey Hunter Pack (230 points)
Grey Hunter (5) with Power armor, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades
Grey Hunter (2) with Power armor, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Meltagun, Frag and Krak Grenades
Grey Hunter (1) with Power armor, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades, Wolf Standard
Grey Hunter (1) with Power armor, Mark of the Wulfen, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades
Grey Hunter (1) with Power armor, Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades
Drop Pod with Storm Bolter

Grey Hunter Pack (235 points)
Grey Hunter (5) with Power armor, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades
Grey Hunter (2) with Power armor, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Plasma Gun, Frag and Krak Grenades
Grey Hunter (1) with Power armor, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades, Wolf Standard
Grey Hunter (1) with Power armor, Mark of the Wulfen, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades
Grey Hunter (1) with Power armor, Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades
Drop Pod with Storm Bolter

Grey Hunter Pack (235 points)
Grey Hunter (5) with Power armor, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades
Grey Hunter (2) with Power armor, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Plasma Gun, Frag and Krak Grenades
Grey Hunter (1) with Power armor, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades, Wolf Standard
Grey Hunter (1) with Power armor, Mark of the Wulfen, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades
Grey Hunter (1) with Power armor, Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades
Drop Pod with Storm Bolter

FAST ATTACK
Dreadnought Drop Pod (60 points; Rules: Imperial Armour Apocalypse II, Page 31)
Lucius Pattern Drop Pod with Storm Bolter, Locator Beacon


ALLIED DETACHMENT

HEADQUARTERS
Company Command Squad (120 points)
Company Commander with Flak armor, Laspistol, Close-combat weapon, Frag Grenades, Refractor Field
Veterans (4) with Flak armor, Meltagun, Close-combat weapon, Frag Grenades
Astropath with Flak armor, Laspistol, Close-combat weapon, Frag Grenades

ELITE
Guardsman Marbo (65 points)
with Flak armor, Ripper Pistol, Envenomed Blade, Frag Grenades, Melta bombs, Demolition Charge

TROOP
Infantry Platoon
- Platoon Command Squad (120 points)
Captain Al’Rahem (1) with Flak armor, Plasma Pistol, Frag Grenades, Claw of the Desert Tigers
Guardsmen (4) with Flak armor, Grenade Launcher, Close-combat weapon, Frag Grenades

- Infantry Squad (75 points)
Sergeant (1) with Flak armor, Laspistol, Power Weapon, Frag Grenades
Guardsmen (1) with Flak armor, Meltagun, Close-combat weapon, Frag Grenades
Guardsmen (8) with Flak armor, Lasgun, Close-combat weapon, Frag Grenades

- Infantry Squad (75 points)
Sergeant (1) with Flak armor, Laspistol, Power Weapon, Frag Grenades
Guardsmen (1) with Flak armor, Meltagun, Close-combat weapon, Frag Grenades
Guardsmen (8) with Flak armor, Lasgun, Close-combat weapon, Frag Grenades

- Infantry Squad (75 points)
Sergeant (1) with Flak armor, Laspistol, Power Weapon, Frag Grenades
Guardsmen (1) with Flak armor, Meltagun, Close-combat weapon, Frag Grenades
Guardsmen (8) with Flak armor, Lasgun, Close-combat weapon, Frag Grenades

- Infantry Squad (75 points)
Sergeant (1) with Flak armor, Laspistol, Power Weapon, Frag Grenades
Guardsmen (1) with Flak armor, Meltagun, Close-combat weapon, Frag Grenades
Guardsmen (8) with Flak armor, Lasgun, Close-combat weapon, Frag Grenades

FAST ATTACK
Vendetta Gunship Squadron (130 points)
Vendetta (1) with 3 twin-linked Lascannons, Searchlight, Extra Armor


TOTAL POINTS: 1995/2000


I haven't played it in a few months. Would probably change up Al'Rahem's Platoon composition just a little bit. Anyways, it was quite a lot of fun. Per the IA rules, the Lucius Drop Pod is taken as a Dedicated Transport (still eats up a Fast Attack slot however!) for Bjorn since he doesn't get a normal Drop Pod option. Units embarked on a Dedicated Transport that is required to be in Reserve don't count towards the number of units you can hold in Reserve. Because the entirety of Platoon Al'Rahem is required to be held in Reserve and Outflank, Marbo is required to be held in Reserve, and the Vendetta is a Flyer and is likewise required to be held in Reserve, only the CCS actually counts towards the number of units I can hold in Reserve. I have to deploy 0 units, so I stick the CCS in the Vendetta to act as a Melta Vet squad.

Was a lot of fun! Bjorn was a gamble, but made for a highly entertaining Warlord. My opponent having to deploy half his army, rounding down, also meant that my Drop Pods always had targets to land on. Plasma Cannon, Heavy Flamer, couple of Plasma Guns, Bolters, and a Dreadnought charging your face on Turn 1 tends to upset most players. I felt it was fair since if I lost Bjorn I was losing 3-5 Victory Points from that alone usually (First Blood, Warlord, D3 due to special rule).

   
 
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