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So I had some models from long ago, in which I painted up now and got the MK II rule book a little while ago. With this, I realized that I had about 15 pts, although I think it might not be the most effective list.

So with that here is what I have:

+ PKreoss
+ Repenter
+ Revenger
+ Crusader
+ Base unit of Temple Flameguard

And so with that, this is my 15 points, since I cannot really buy anything at the moment to add on. But once I can, what do you think should be good to get (Well I keep hearing get Choir since I heard a lot people say they are good) and what do you think I can do with what I have?

Choir is something you definitely want. Seriously, it's like night and day with our jacks, they go from mediocre to awesome with the addition of just a 2pt unit. Jack support through Choir and Vassals of menoth is one of the central themes of Protectorate, and both are really great buys.

If you don't know what choir does, it can make your jacks untargetable by shooting or untargetable by magic, or give them +2 to hit and +2 damage. That +2/+2 simply makes your jacks amazing in combat, and the other two abilites can really mess with those who rely on magic debuffs or shooting to crack your forces. Definitely worth it.

I assume your next level is 25pts? If so, grab a choir, vassal of Menoth, definitely, which would put you up to 19pts.

For the rest, you could max out your Flameguard and maybe give them their officer and standard, which will leave you with 2pts.

With those two points, I would consider upgrading from the Revenger to one of our 8pt heavy jacks - either the Reckoner or the Vanquisher would be awesome. Vanquisher is an infantry clearer, throwing big pie plates of firey death out (two 4" templates a turn with the Vassal helping) and a chain weapon with Thresher (special attack that hits every model in melee range), while the reckoner is just an all around awesome jack - a nice gun that makes all other attacks more accurate, an ash cloud ability that gives cover to it and those around it, and reach on a SPD 5 heavy, giving it the largest threat range of any of our jacks. Both come as plastic kits that can make any of 3 different jacks (each kit comes with 3 different sets of arms/heads), If you get one, consider magnetizing the arms so you can trade them around when you feel like using something else for a while.

Alternatively, you could, after grabbing the choir, you could upgrade the Revenger to a heavy, and grab another unit, such as the Daughters of the Flame. Those girls are awesome under defenders ward, and one of my favorite units, just lots of fun. Then you could fill out that last point with some Wracks if you like.

Anyway, check out Battle College if you need to know what anything does (http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/).

Yeah, I read the main rulebook with what the Protectorate has, and Choir, granted they are not meant for combat at all, but it looks like they can boost and change the game if you use them right. And it seems Kreoss is a good starting Warcaster, so what would you say to give an another Protectorate Warcaster a try?

And yes my next level is 25 pts, which may be a while until I get money again.

Well, there are a few you could go for. The Harbinger is a great model, and works well with many different types of lists, and is considered one of our best warcasters. Downside is she's a big, somewhat expensive model and quite hard for modelling (which i why I haven't bought her yet). If you feel up to it, she'll probably be great.

pSeverius is a brilliant caster as well. He simply makes everything better with his Eye of Menoth spell. He's definitely a good stepping stone from pKreoss.

eFeora is considered probably our second best caster - great if you like fire, and (like pKreoss) she'll love a Redeemer. With a bonded Redeemer and a Vanquisher, the enemy is pretty much guaranteed to be completely on fire with no infantry left.

Reznik - while not one of our top casters, he's a lot of fun. No defensiveness about this guy, he's all offence, and a beatstick that can level a colossal single handed (in the right circumstances). Highly recommend him for less competitive play.

These guys are all good picks for a second caster, as you can just jam them in with your current picks, and they'll work just fine.

If you do get Harby, don't bother with her pauldrons or the guys pulling her around. She looks much cooler without them. and easier to assemble.

A unit of Choir and 2 Vassals is pretty much mandatory for every protectorate player.

I would also get one of each of the Heavy jack plastic kits and magnetize them.That way you can run a bunch of different jacks.

I might do that, but for now since I found a PDF of the Menoth army book, I am thinking of doing a theme list for pKreoss and see how that goes from there with some Choir and maybe some exemplars and that. If not, I am going for Choir, maxing out my Temple Flameguard and see about getting some Vassals and/or Exemplar errants.

If you do pKreoss's theme list do go all the way to tier 4, buying 2 worthless arc node Jacks isn't worth starting with your spells up.

So that is a no for going all the way to tier 4?

Correct, the only casters in Menoth that can actually make use of Arc Nodes are iKreoss and both versions of Severius. Otherwise you are way overpaying for the Warjack in question.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Correct, the only casters in Menoth that can actually make use of Arc Nodes are iKreoss and both versions of Severius. Otherwise you are way overpaying for the Warjack in question.

I can see that, but I have been good with using the Revenger, and with the Repel from the Repulsor shield and reach with the Halberd, you can make a Halberd and spell combo with him since an enemy that does not have reach is technically not engaged if you do that, and you get offensive with it. At least how I have been doing that with my Revengers.

Yeah, thats why the Revenger is an awsome Arc Node, but you need a Caster that has spells worth Arcing.

The whole point of Arcing a spell is to either get extra range or a different angle. None of pKreoss's spells fit into that catagory. And his offensive spells are just gak, the only spells you should ever be casting with him are Defenders Ward, Lamentation, and Purification.

True, which I would see the devout a much better choice for pKreoss. Almost the same thing, but without the knock back with the Repulsor Shield and you a free strike once a model gets into its Melee Reach range.

At least how I see it, I am mostly stick with a 25 point list I made up (for now I think, I still need to buy the models :/) :

High Exemplar Kreoss
Repenter =4
Revenger = 6
Crusader = 6
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 5 Grunts) = 3
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 5 Grunts) = 5
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) = 6

If later on I get the Devout and that, I could drop the Revenger then, that leaves me with one point so I could either get a Vassal Mechanik or The Wracks.

Honestly, I wouldn't go the Devout just yet. The Devout can be good, but it's 5 points of defense in a game that favors an aggressive offense, especially at lower points levels. Unless you're having a lot of trouble with early spell/ranged assassinations, I'd leave him till you have a 50pt list. A much better option would be Redeemer for 6pts, that would work wonders with pKreoss, and allow you to assassinate better than your opponent.

Alternatively, take out the Revenger and try to shoe horn a Reckoner or Vanquisher in there. Perhaps something like:

pKreoss (+5)
-Crusader 6
-Reckoner/Vanquisher 8
-Repenter 4

Choir (Leader and 3) 2
TFG (Leader and 5) 4
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 5) 5
Wracks 1

You'll also find that you usually don't need too many extra choir, and 4 choir members should be fine for 3 Jacks, most of the time. I'll also say that Errants usually work better as a max unit with their U/A, who adds some extremely useful abilities to them, so if you can get their max unit with U/A, they'll work much better for you.

 Maddermax wrote:
Honestly, I wouldn't go the Devout just yet. The Devout can be good, but it's 5 points of defense in a game that favors an aggressive offense, especially at lower points levels. Unless you're having a lot of trouble with early spell/ranged assassinations, I'd leave him till you have a 50pt list. A much better option would be Redeemer for 6pts, that would work wonders with pKreoss, and allow you to assassinate better than your opponent.

Alternatively, take out the Revenger and try to shoe horn a Reckoner or Vanquisher in there. Perhaps something like:

pKreoss (+5)
-Crusader 6
-Reckoner/Vanquisher 8
-Repenter 4

Choir (Leader and 3) 2
TFG (Leader and 5) 4
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 5) 5
Wracks 1

You'll also find that you usually don't need too many extra choir, and 4 choir members should be fine for 3 Jacks, most of the time. I'll also say that Errants usually work better as a max unit with their U/A, who adds some extremely useful abilities to them, so if you can get their max unit with U/A, they'll work much better for you.

My guess is it is not wise to max out units on a small points game at 25 pts?
And going over some of the things between the Reckoner and Vanquisher, both seem like real viable choices. Gladly I heard , if I am correct, that the heavy Warjack box comes with extra parts to make other Warjacks, so one can magnetize them?

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

 Maddermax wrote:
Honestly, I wouldn't go the Devout just yet. The Devout can be good, but it's 5 points of defense in a game that favors an aggressive offense, especially at lower points levels. Unless you're having a lot of trouble with early spell/ranged assassinations, I'd leave him till you have a 50pt list. A much better option would be Redeemer for 6pts, that would work wonders with pKreoss, and allow you to assassinate better than your opponent.

Alternatively, take out the Revenger and try to shoe horn a Reckoner or Vanquisher in there. Perhaps something like:

pKreoss (+5)
-Crusader 6
-Reckoner/Vanquisher 8
-Repenter 4

Choir (Leader and 3) 2
TFG (Leader and 5) 4
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 5) 5
Wracks 1

You'll also find that you usually don't need too many extra choir, and 4 choir members should be fine for 3 Jacks, most of the time. I'll also say that Errants usually work better as a max unit with their U/A, who adds some extremely useful abilities to them, so if you can get their max unit with U/A, they'll work much better for you.

My guess is it is not wise to max out units on a small points game at 25 pts?
And going over some of the things between the Reckoner and Vanquisher, both seem like real viable choices. Gladly I heard , if I am correct, that the heavy Warjack box comes with extra parts to make other Warjacks, so one can magnetize them?

They do come with the weapon options, but the crusader/templar/vanquisher and reckoner/castigator/sanctifier kits are two separate kits/chassis

Yeah, there's the Crusader chassis and the Reckoner chassis. The Crusader body has the parts to make all 3 Jacks that use that body and the Reckoner has the parts to make all 3 that use that body, The castigator is almost impossible to include in the magnetization but thats ok since its pretty lame anyway.

Alright, I might have to do it that way then. Granted I might try to choose to grab the units first so I have a 25 pts army to play with before I get that. Not sure on that though yet, both seem viable options.

People tend to use both in most lists.

The Vanquisher and Crusader are the most common of the Spd4 chassis and the Reckoner and Sanctifier are the more common of the Spd5 chassis.

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

 Maddermax wrote:
Honestly, I wouldn't go the Devout just yet. The Devout can be good, but it's 5 points of defense in a game that favors an aggressive offense, especially at lower points levels. Unless you're having a lot of trouble with early spell/ranged assassinations, I'd leave him till you have a 50pt list. A much better option would be Redeemer for 6pts, that would work wonders with pKreoss, and allow you to assassinate better than your opponent.

Alternatively, take out the Revenger and try to shoe horn a Reckoner or Vanquisher in there. Perhaps something like:

pKreoss (+5)
-Crusader 6
-Reckoner/Vanquisher 8
-Repenter 4

Choir (Leader and 3) 2
TFG (Leader and 5) 4
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 5) 5
Wracks 1

You'll also find that you usually don't need too many extra choir, and 4 choir members should be fine for 3 Jacks, most of the time. I'll also say that Errants usually work better as a max unit with their U/A, who adds some extremely useful abilities to them, so if you can get their max unit with U/A, they'll work much better for you.

My guess is it is not wise to max out units on a small points game at 25 pts?
And going over some of the things between the Reckoner and Vanquisher, both seem like real viable choices. Gladly I heard , if I am correct, that the heavy Warjack box comes with extra parts to make other Warjacks, so one can magnetize them?

Yes, you shouldn't put too many units in a 25pt game, I would generally suggest just using one maxed unit (as one large unit works better for Defender Ward) of TFG or Errants at 25pts is about right, but i was going by what models you had. If you took out the TFG and maxed out the Errants with UA, or took out the Errants to max out the TFG and have a few points extra, that would be best.

Also, yes, the Heavy Kits comes with extra arms that can be magnatised, and the arms for the Crusader/Vanquisher/Templar kit will fit on your Crusader as well. If you bought that kit and magnatised it and your current crusader, you could have a Vanquisher/Templar combo - more expensive, but very useful. When you have enough points, I think the Templar is a much better beat-stick jack than the Crusader anyway. How about something like:

pKreoss
-Vanquisher 8
-Crusader 6
-Redeemer 6

Max TFG 6
Choir 2
Vassal 2

If that requires too many purchases for you just yet, you could try:

pKreoss
-Vanquisher 8
-Templar 8
-Repenter 4

Max TFG 6
Choir 2
Vassal 2

That would only require one Heavy Kit and a Vassal.

If that is the case, then I might and try to go for this for now:
pKreoss
-Vanquisher 8
-Crusader 6
-Repenter 4

Max TFG with U/A 8
Choir 2
Vassal 2

Since that would really only need to buy one heavy kit, the Choir, extra TGF and the officer and standard bearer, and the Vassal. Or that is not a good idea?

Thats a pretty standard setup. TFG love Defender's Ward. In shield wall with defenders ward they are def15 arm19, pretty rock solid for infantry. And against charge attacks they become defense 17.

Now they arn't going to kill much besides other weak infantry, but Continious Fire from the UA helps. Terror can also ruin the enemy's plans with their infantry.

True, and it seems they can make a good Tarpit unit if they can hold out the first few turns with a Def 15 and Arm 19 with they are within shield wall and have Defender's Ward on them. And if you pop Iron Zeal at the right time, that arm 23 can be helpful.

looks good to me.

The TFG U/A is nice. Terror shouldn't be underestimated, as the one time someone's unit fails a test and flees, it can swing the game, and the continuous fire is great for making sure infantry die (especially tough/shieldwall infantry, who might survive the initial hit).

Shield wall for them should be used only on occasion though. The speed of the TFG is one of it's main assets, so don't be afraid to leave off shield wall for the first couple of turns, and only start using it when they need don't need to run. Also, with shield wall they don't all need to be touching one another in a line, you can send the unit out in pairs and it still works. That spreads the unit out a bit more so that certain effects (bezerk, AOEs ect.) can't wipe out large numbers of them.

 Maddermax wrote:
looks good to me.

The TFG U/A is nice. Terror shouldn't be underestimated, as the one time someone's unit fails a test and flees, it can swing the game, and the continuous fire is great for making sure infantry die (especially tough/shieldwall infantry, who might survive the initial hit).

Shield wall for them should be used only on occasion though. The speed of the TFG is one of it's main assets, so don't be afraid to leave off shield wall for the first couple of turns, and only start using it when they need don't need to run. Also, with shield wall they don't all need to be touching one another in a line, you can send the unit out in pairs and it still works. That spreads the unit out a bit more so that certain effects (bezerk, AOEs ect.) can't wipe out large numbers of them.

Well, at least I have a good idea what I should be doing with them. Granted they might be suspectable to shooting (or I might be thinking too much 40k in terms of range) but they should be able to survive!

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

 Maddermax wrote:
looks good to me.

The TFG U/A is nice. Terror shouldn't be underestimated, as the one time someone's unit fails a test and flees, it can swing the game, and the continuous fire is great for making sure infantry die (especially tough/shieldwall infantry, who might survive the initial hit).

Shield wall for them should be used only on occasion though. The speed of the TFG is one of it's main assets, so don't be afraid to leave off shield wall for the first couple of turns, and only start using it when they need don't need to run. Also, with shield wall they don't all need to be touching one another in a line, you can send the unit out in pairs and it still works. That spreads the unit out a bit more so that certain effects (bezerk, AOEs ect.) can't wipe out large numbers of them.

Well, at least I have a good idea what I should be doing with them. Granted they might be suspectable to shooting (or I might be thinking too much 40k in terms of range) but they should be able to survive!

It takes a bit of practice to work out when to run/charge and when to shieldwall.

If there is a lot of shooting, you'll generally want to get your guys up and engaging the enemy, so they can't shoot, which doesn't often leave much time or shield wall. Meanwhile, if there's not much shooting but lots of Melee, well even basic infantry melee attacks will rip apart ARM 19 with exceptional ease (Even a charging POW 10 trooper will average a damage roll of 20.5, and most melee units are much harder hitting than that) and you'll be relying on your DEF to keep you safe (In fact, DEF is usually far more important than ARM for most single wound infantry) so shield wall isn't that useful.

Where shield wall should be used is when you're not going to be able to run to engage light shooters, but need to walk into their range to position yourself for next turn, or where you're already engaged with the enemy and don't need to run/charge at all, or when you're using Iron Zeal to buff your ARM further, because ARM 23 is actually really quite good. I mean, there's a lot of situations where you might or might not use shield wall, and a lot of factors that can change whether it's a good idea or not, but practice with them for a while, and you'll get a feel for it

 Maddermax wrote:

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

 Maddermax wrote:
looks good to me.

The TFG U/A is nice. Terror shouldn't be underestimated, as the one time someone's unit fails a test and flees, it can swing the game, and the continuous fire is great for making sure infantry die (especially tough/shieldwall infantry, who might survive the initial hit).

Shield wall for them should be used only on occasion though. The speed of the TFG is one of it's main assets, so don't be afraid to leave off shield wall for the first couple of turns, and only start using it when they need don't need to run. Also, with shield wall they don't all need to be touching one another in a line, you can send the unit out in pairs and it still works. That spreads the unit out a bit more so that certain effects (bezerk, AOEs ect.) can't wipe out large numbers of them.

Well, at least I have a good idea what I should be doing with them. Granted they might be suspectable to shooting (or I might be thinking too much 40k in terms of range) but they should be able to survive!

It takes a bit of practice to work out when to run/charge and when to shieldwall.

If there is a lot of shooting, you'll generally want to get your guys up and engaging the enemy, so they can't shoot, which doesn't often leave much time or shield wall. Meanwhile, if there's not much shooting but lots of Melee, well even basic infantry melee attacks will rip apart ARM 19 with exceptional ease (Even a charging POW 10 trooper will average a damage roll of 20.5, and most melee units are much harder hitting than that) and you'll be relying on your DEF to keep you safe (In fact, DEF is usually far more important than ARM for most single wound infantry) so shield wall isn't that useful.

Where shield wall should be used is when you're not going to be able to run to engage light shooters, but need to walk into their range to position yourself for next turn, or where you're already engaged with the enemy and don't need to run/charge at all, or when you're using Iron Zeal to buff your ARM further, because ARM 23 is actually really quite good. I mean, there's a lot of situations where you might or might not use shield wall, and a lot of factors that can change whether it's a good idea or not, but practice with them for a while, and you'll get a feel for it

Indeed, granted Warmachine is fun as Warhammmer and that, but Warmachine seems to have to be much more aggressive with a bit of a learning curve to it in general.

Anyways, thank you for the advice! ^_^