The wait is over lets talk Tau 2013 tactics

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**DakkaHammer**

Also, the only real problem I have with the codex is how now our vehicles have to stand still.

The skyray can't move and fire both its markerlights at full BS (which i think is silly). And the hammerhead is now on a shorter leash.

**valace2**

Ravenous D wrote:
valace2 wrote:
Ravenous D wrote:
From what Ive gleamed:

- HYM broadsides are better in every way possible then HRR broadsides

- Missile drones are worth every penny, they are like ork lootas, but cheaper and better armour and guaranteed 2 shots and we all KNOW for a fact how good lootas are.

- Velocity tracker is autotake on broadsides

- Stealth suits are godly, they have infiltrate, stealth, shrouding. Thats 4+ cover in the open and 2+ every where else. Add in the fact that burstcannons are assault 4 and they can ride in transports and you have yourself a party.

- Shadowsun is a great character, nice and cheap and gives serious boosts to stealth suits

I dunno I like Early Warning Override. You won't be facing flyers every game but there is a good chance you will see Drop Pods or deepstriking Deathwing. So having interceptor IMO is a better way to go.

Kill it before it gets to kill you.

Yeah but you only hit on BS1, and cannot fire at anything in your following turn, and you cannot take both systems. I ran the math and odds are you do bugger all against a heldrake, and 4 hits with 4 broadsides firing vs 4 broadsides firing it and killing it on average. Against 1 night sycthe you would only knock off 2 hull points firing with 4 broadsides, where as velocity tracker the odds are 1 dead per 2 broadsides. I'd rather have high odds of guaranteed dead then kinda maybe hurt something and be ineffective the following turn.

And because you waited that heldrake or night scythe has killed off either an entire crisis suit team or fire warrior squad. The night scythe could even cripple the broadsides themselves. With interceptor yes you are at bs 1 but you have 12 TL str 7 and 12 str 5 shots to put into that flyer. The drones are there so you can fire in the next turn. If its coming from reserve normally you will hit with normal bs.

Although I am basing my opinion off of a squad that has an attached commander that can deny jink saves and twin link everything. A vanilla missileside squad with drones might be better off with the tracker.

**Miri**

Ravenous D wrote:

- Stealth suits are godly, they have infiltrate, stealth, shrouding. Thats 4+ cover in the open and 2+ every where else. Add in the fact that burstcannons are assault 4 and they can ride in transports and you have yourself a party.

- Shadowsun is a great character, nice and cheap and gives serious boosts to stealth suits

Stealth Suits are Jet Pack Infantry which according to page 47 of the BRB makes them Bulky. So no packing them into a Fish.

As for Shadowsun, I would rather take 2 Crisis Suit Body Guards with her or attach her to a unit of 3 Crisis Suits. She would confer upon them her Infiltrate rule as well as her Warlord trait of Ghost Walking to the rest of her unit and Stealth+Shrouded. You would be giving up her auto Look Out Ma'am! save but oh well, the unit has 5 Fusion Blasters and 3 Plasma Rifles and a 2+ Cover save while in anything that grants a save, I can deal with it.

**lordofthegophers**

How about attaching a Commander to a unit of Broadsides?

Commander
- Missile Pod
- Missile Pod
- Skyfire
- Interceptor
- Puretide Engram Neurochip
- Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite

Let me explain, the Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite grants Ignores Cover to the Commander's unit if he did not shoot in the Shooting phase. So, you're free to use Interceptor and shoot with his weapons in the opponent's turn, since he won't be able to fire next turn anyway the Broadside team can benefit from the Sensor Suite. A full unit of Broadsides with Ignores Cover could be very sweet indeed.

Puretide Engram Neurochip gives Tank Hunter to the Commander and "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule re-rolls failed armour penetration rolls against vehicles". That's right, the entire unit gets Tank Hunters. 3 Broadsides with re-rolls to pen? Yes please! Heavy Railguns are a lot more viable with this set-up.

Add shield drones for improved survivability, or even the Iridium Battlesuit. It's quite a lot of points so it may cost more than it's worth but hey, just an idea.

**Veskrashen**

What Crisis suit loadouts are people looking at these days?

I know that personally, I plan to use mine as gap fillers, taking care of any holes in my army's needs. Yanno, kinda like we've always been doing.

But with built-in multitrackers, I plan to do a lot more trigunning than before.

My new standard loadout looks to be Fusion, Plasma, Flamer. Pick the best two for the job, always has something to contribute. Not too concerned about the 24" max range, since with JSJ and Deep Strike, getting to a target isn't usually an issue. Besides, most things still want to close the gap, more often than not.

Others are of course the ECM / Support 'Vre - Puretide Chip, C2 Node, Drone Controller, Neuroweb Disruptor to taste. Take 2 more Crisis loaded for bear, with drones to taste. Being able to confer twin linked is huge, of course, and the Neuroweb really screws over shooty blobs something fierce.

To me though, the biggest overall factor in Suit loadouts is that there's so little that's unfilled in the rest of the FOC; AP1/2 and Melta is really all that's left or needed in many cases from our Elite and FA slots. And with EMP grenades on our FW, we might not even have to rely on Crisis for the heavy anti-armor role - though I'm seriously considering adding in a Onager Gauntlet in any future army I run.

**kelewan**

Just started my tau army today by buying a squad of fw I haven't read the codex fully only a few pages and dakkadakka so I have a very basic understanding of tau I'm thinking so far

Suit commander with drone controller marker drones missile pods

Cadre fire blade

Missile side squad with missile drones

Fw squad with emp grenades in a fish to go tank hunting

Fw squad in fish with cadre

Big squad of stealth suits

**bthom37**

Fezman wrote:
Anyone got any good ideas for Pathfinder squad loadouts? I'm just looking at the book myself but they have a lot of options...I'm particularly wondering which drones would be best for them and whether you think the Shas'ui is worth it. I sort of like the Recon Drone but I can't help thinking I would have liked it more if they'd been Infiltrators. Similarly, I'm thinking of giving them a couple of rail rilfes, but then is it worth replacing the lost Markerlights with Marker Drones (considering they're only BS2 and you can't get a Controller)?

The kind of squad I was considering was:

10 x models
2 x rail rifles

That's pretty much it...you get 8 markerlights and at least 2 rail shots per turn. Maybe add in an ion rifle for trying to wound tougher enemies?

I'm wondering about them as a counterattack unit, with a mix of rail rifles vs ion rifles. A full unit puts out a lot of pain at 15/18". The emps make them dangerous to any armor like dreads. Use their markerlights until something nasty drops in, or use them offensively to blow a unit off an objective with a dfish plus recon drone.

**lordofthegophers**

I think a unit of 10 with three rail rifles and nothing else is best. They are far too squishy to spend lots of points on.

T3 and just a 5+ makes me sad, they really should have stealth, it makes sense fluff-wise and everything...

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

Sorry wrong thread.

**bthom37**

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
A big thing I'm disappointed with is that their is no rule for them in regards to the fluff of their low/non-existent warp presence. At the very least, all Tau should have Adamantium Will or something...

Heck that would have made sense as a buff from the ethereal if not a army wide usr.

**generalchaos34**

lordofthegophers wrote:
I think a unit of 10 with three rail rifles and nothing else is best. They are far too squishy to spend lots of points on.

T3 and just a 5+ makes me sad, they really should have stealth, it makes sense fluff-wise and everything...

whats your opinion of Ion rifles for Pathfinders? I might just build some because they look cool, also since i have some old skool Rail rifles

**barnowl**

Just re-reading the sniper drone Teams. They got nasty. One marksman in hiding with 9 jsj BS5 sniper shots ad 24" to 48" and 18 at 1"-24" at only 148 points? I am thinking you are going to see more of them on the table in the future.

**lordofthegophers**

generalchaos34 wrote:
lordofthegophers wrote:
I think a unit of 10 with three rail rifles and nothing else is best. They are far too squishy to spend lots of points on.

T3 and just a 5+ makes me sad, they really should have stealth, it makes sense fluff-wise and everything...

whats your opinion of Ion rifles for Pathfinders? I might just build some because they look cool, also since i have some old skool Rail rifles

I just don't think they have good synergy with the rest of the unit. S7 AP4 is readily available elsewhere in the army, and the overcharge effect is crap, S8 AP4 blast? It's just not useful in very many circumstances. Rail rifles give us some nice options for dealing with MEQ/TEQ from range.

I would rather take all 10 with markerlights than Ion Rifles

Automatically Appended Next Post:

barnowl wrote:
Just re-reading the sniper drone Teams. They got nasty. One marksman in hiding with 9 jsj BS5 sniper shots ad 24" to 48" and 18 at 1"-24" at only 148 points? I am thinking you are going to see more of them on the table in the future.

I'll be running them with Aun'va, 27 shots up to 24"

**bthom37**

With the command and control node plus multispectrum, wouldn't it make more sense to use those on a regular shas'vre than on the commander? Why waste that tasty bs5 on support systems that require you to not shoot? Instead, commander with dc, cib /fusion blaster, advanced targeting system, 2 shas'ui with fb/pr (either tl one or take a support system) plus a vre with c&c /msss and another item (hell take a flamer or counterfire) . Marker drones to taste.

Obviously you could go for a longer range version with mps etc., but that's a lot of anti elite firepower right there.

**MechaBeast**

barnowl wrote:
Just re-reading the sniper drone Teams. They got nasty. One marksman in hiding with 9 jsj BS5 sniper shots ad 24" to 48" and 18 at 1"-24" at only 148 points? I am thinking you are going to see more of them on the table in the future.

Does the spotter need LOS?

My book is in the mail.

**Peregrine**

barnowl wrote:
Just re-reading the sniper drone Teams. They got nasty. One marksman in hiding with 9 jsj BS5 sniper shots ad 24" to 48" and 18 at 1"-24" at only 148 points? I am thinking you are going to see more of them on the table in the future.

You have this backwards. The sniper drones themselves are mediocre at best, but the BS 5 markerlights they can take are awesome. You always want max spotters, the drones are just meatshields that happen to contribute a bit of shooting.

bthom37 wrote:
With the command and control node plus multispectrum, wouldn't it make more sense to use those on a regular shas'vre than on the commander? Why waste that tasty bs5 on support systems that require you to not shoot?

You take it on the commander because the commander is an IC. Broadsides and riptides are better than crisis suits, so that's where you want to put your best shooting boost.

**Blaggard**

Day 1 nerf
Although for 399 points you can get a decent ally list:

Spoiler:

12 TL S7 Missiles, 12 TL S5 missiles and 12 S7 missiles.

**dj.kickz**

i keep hearing everyone talk about how crisis suits get multitrackers for free now but I've looked everywhere in the book and I can't find that rule anywhere. can someone point me in the right direction?

**valace2**

dj.kickz wrote:
i keep hearing everyone talk about how crisis suits get multitrackers for free now but I've looked everywhere in the book and I can't find that rule anywhere. can someone point me in the right direction?

It's frustrating where they put it, it's on page 70 in the armour section, they also come standard with blacksun filters

**cryhavok**

Spotter for the sniper drones has a drone controller, so the drones fire at bs5.

**barnowl**

Peregrine wrote:
barnowl wrote:
Just re-reading the sniper drone Teams. They got nasty. One marksman in hiding with 9 jsj BS5 sniper shots ad 24" to 48" and 18 at 1"-24" at only 148 points? I am thinking you are going to see more of them on the table in the future.

You have this backwards. The sniper drones themselves are mediocre at best, but the BS 5 markerlights they can take are awesome. You always want max spotters, the drones are just meatshields that happen to contribute a bit of shooting.

The Drone Controller transfers the BS5 to the Drones. So you have both a BS5 ML and BS5 drones. Personally I like the BS5 snipers over the markerlight in this case.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MechaBeast wrote:
barnowl wrote:
Just re-reading the sniper drone Teams. They got nasty. One marksman in hiding with 9 jsj BS5 sniper shots ad 24" to 48" and 18 at 1"-24" at only 148 points? I am thinking you are going to see more of them on the table in the future.

Does the spotter need LOS?

My book is in the mail.

Nope. The boost is conferred by the drone controller wargear.

**Wolfnid420**

Put your fire blade in with a fully kitted out sniper squad to give it split fire with those bs5 ML and sniper rifles. could be useful at times

**BlueRift**

Wolfnid420 wrote:
Put your fire blade in with a fully kitted out sniper squad to give it split fire with those bs5 ML and sniper rifles. could be useful at times

Give him 2 ML drones and that's 2 more bs 5 MLs

**barnowl**

Wolfnid420 wrote:
Put your fire blade in with a fully kitted out sniper squad to give it split fire with those bs5 ML and sniper rifles. could be useful at times

Splitfire on the FireBlade does not quite work like longfangs. On the model with split fire can select a secondary target and only on leadership check. See BRB pg42.

**Peregrine**

barnowl wrote:
The Drone Controller transfers the BS5 to the Drones. So you have both a BS5 ML and BS5 drones. Personally I like the BS5 snipers over the markerlight in this case.

The point is that, like all snipers, they're mediocre at best. Wounding on a 4+ is usually worse than a basic pulse rifle, while the lack of AP means that most of the hits that do wound are just going to bounce off armor/cover. Meanwhile those BS 5 markerlights are indirectly causing much more damage by giving you BS 5 crisis suit plasma/melta, cover-ignoring pie plates of death from your riptides, etc. You're always going to want the maximum number of spotters in each unit, but upgrade drones are only worth it if you want more meatshields for the markerlights.

**barnowl**

So any reason to even take burst cannons on Fish anymore? Now that SMS and burst cannons are both S5,ap5,TL, 4shot weapons, the SMS has better range and ignores cover. getting 6 shots a round used to make a nice close support option.

**davou**

lambsandlions wrote:
Another tactic I was thinking about was crisis commander with iridium armor and stimulant injectors. Plop this in front of your unit to soak up all the fire. If you are being hit by AP1/2 weapons you can look out sir to another unit (crisis suits have 2 wounds so you can distribute wounds before anything dies) You only risk a 1/6 chance that the AP1/2 shot will wound your commander but he has 4 wounds so its not a huge deal and he is t5 so only s10 hit instant kill him. If you are being hit by AP3+ weapons your commander should take it. Between sv2 and feel no pain it will take 27 shots to do 3 wounds. It is risky but allows your team to take a TON of damage before anything dies. If your commander gets to 1 wound you can hide him in the middle of the unit.

Majority toughness rules, in this case, the commander counts as t4 for shooting

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Veskrashen wrote:
So, is Mech Tau now dead?

On the face of things it kinda looks that way... our transports didn't get any cheaper, the DPod is more expensive and less effective. And, of course, without the ability to fire as a fast vehicle, you don't have the ability to zoom around the board with impunity anymore throwing scads of dice around with wild abandon. Not to mention no Target Locks or Targeting Arrays.

On the other hand... 10pts gets you twin-linked SMS, and our BC get an extra shot. Even a stock Fish is throwing 3 more shots per turn around. Point Defense Systems seem an interesting option, as it would allow you to support your dismounted FWs... or allow you to Overwatch those crunchy melee types who like to wreck your ride with grenades or scads of melee attacks.

And of course, there's the new and improved FISH OF FURY. Put a stock Ethereal in a Fish along with 11 FWs (or 9 + 2 Gun Drones, your choice). Choose Storm of Fire. Unleash 33 pulse shots to the face, plus another 8 from the Fish, for a total of 41. That's 12 more shots than the old 4th/5th edition version. Since the Ethereal only needs to be within 12" (or more accurately, the 'Fish he's in...), you can easily dump multiple squads out to jackhammer the snot out of your units of choice. Markerlight support to taste, of course.

I also think that EMP grenades are going to be one of those subtle changes that really change things for folks who choose to use them. It neatly solves the AV13/14 problem, giving us the ability to strip hullpoints as needed. Use the 'Fish to block those nasty nasty Hurricane Bolters, and go to town. They're even worth throwing at DakkaDreads in a lot of cases, assuming you've got a large enough squad.

I also feel that a mech heavy list with plenty of SMS is currently underrated, given the current prevalence of cover save mechanics as a way to preserve cheap objective holders. 30" range plus 6" move, TL, no need for LOS, ignores cover, and is S5... easy way to remove Scout Teams, IG command teams, etc etc etc. If it's a small squad in an important location that depends on cover to live, it's gonna die in short order.

Hammerheads... I think that Ion Cannons, SMS, and a Darksun Filter are pretty much the default configuration these days. Which is nice, because that's how all of mine are modeled. That 60" AP3 pieplate is going to cause some serious difficulty for a lot of armies out there, especially with the ability to ML a target and ignore cover saves. Easily the end of Aegishammer as we know it, IMO.

Oh, lastly... the Skyray. I know a lot of folks hate it, and it's not my favorite, but I think there's some value here that a lot of folks may be missing. First, it's got Skyfire Markerlights... which means you can use it to mark a flyer, then launch seekers from another vehicle at the back end of said flyer. Oh, and if it doesn't move, it can toss 6 seekers (plus 2 more if it buys them), plus SMS shots, at a flyer of choice... likely at BS5, due to it's networked markerlights. Probably not the ultimate counter to Helldrakes, sure, but would put the hurt on a whole lot of other things. Like FMCs, for example.

You're forgetting that fire-warriors dont come with an assault vehicle, and need to hoof it to where they wanna be. The only thing that can't be shot down at least kinda easilly are land-raiders and their ilk.... If something that like gets close enough for you to use EMP grenades, then you've already gotten into a mess of trouble that popping a single heavy support choice wont fix. Hell, you can't even dfish them over there and hope to assault after the fish dies, cause you're losing over half the FW's when it explodes, are potentially pinned, and STILL count as having come out of a non assault vehicle.

It's one point wasted for every fire-warrior.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

lordofthegophers wrote:
How about attaching a Commander to a unit of Broadsides?

Commander
- Missile Pod
- Missile Pod
- Skyfire
- Interceptor
- Puretide Engram Neurochip
- Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite

.

Too many choices on a single suit mate.

**kelewan**

Do not ask for pirated materials on Dakka. --Janthkin

**Vineheart01**

My tau are for allied detachments for my orks. I dont have my codex yet but from i can read i think theyre going to stay as an allied detachment.

How well you guy think a Riptide would be allied in, or should i stick to broadside groups?

**Luford**

Commander
- Missile Pod
- Missile Pod
- Skyfire
- Interceptor
- Puretide Engram Neurochip
- Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite

why would this be illegal davou? commander can take four weapons/support AND take gear from the special item list. Unless it says somewhere you can't pick two weapons of the same type? I know it said specifically you can't pick the same gear twice in the old codex but i can not see it anywhere in the new one.