Does a Sentinel have a Place?

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**Guardsmen Bob**

Hello, I was considering putting together a 1000pt IG list, and I have this un-assembled sentinel. When I look at its stats, it looks pretty flimsy, but would be a good flanking/one-shot attack vehicle (before it got blown up). Considering what I have to work with, I thought that it might have a place.

I have 3 Chimera, a Leman Russ, bunch of little soldiers (40 non-special), special weapons and a few Heavy weapon teams. I figure with these models, it'd be best to go for a armored fist/fast attack style battle strategy.

Should I bother adding a lone sentinel to my plans, or would points be better spent elsewhere?

**Ailaros**

As for sentinels in general...

Ailaros wrote:
...However, there are three things which can make the scout sentinel worth taking. Firstly, the sentinel can outflank, and the vendetta can not. Against predators or chimera-chassised vehicles you will do more damage by attacking side or rear armor than taking a vendetta and throwing it at the front. Furthermore, if the squad survives, the sentinel can get into close combat against vehicles, which it's not THAT bad at killing, or at least finishing off.

Secondly, as mentioned, sentinels can get into close combat. Combine that with the previous outflanking, and you can offer a reasonable strategic threat for a pretty low points footprint. If your opponent is holding a backfield objective with a 5-man tac or scout squad, for example, you can get into a close combat that will drag them away from an objective and likely stick them in for turn after turn. Turn after turn of not scoring. Even better if there's no way that they can hurt the sentinel and so they decide to break and run. Few things that can't hurt a sentinel have an I of better than 3, which means you've got a half chance to catch that one scoring unit in a sweeping advance. A vendetta will never have this kind of a strategic impact. Not by itself, at least.

Thirdly, on scouring missions, they can score. Much more easily than a vendetta at least.

Then you add in a bunch of little things. For example, vendettas are way harder to hit from most things, but sentinels don't care about the ever-growing list of things with skyfire. Also, vendettas are harder to hit, but they're also much, much more difficult to get cover saves for.

As for you in specific, there are worse things you can blow 50 points on.

**tuebor**

I think the two major uses for unarmored Sentinels are as outflanking lascannons and cheap searchlights. I don't think they're particularly great for the points but in anything but the most competitive games they're not aggressively useless.

**Corollax**

Elysian drop sentinels aren't completely terrible. They're not particularly good, either. Still, you could do worse than a deep-striking Heavy Flamer (35 points) or Multi-melta (50pts).

Having it in a troop slot helps a bit, in case you were interested in taking allies.

**ghastli**

Scout sentinels compliment Captain Al'Rahem fairly well, with outflanking multilasers. I use them to harass side armor and charge things that I would rather not have my infantry in melee with. And if your enemy shoots them they're only 35 points a pop. I've even shot at fliers with them in a pinch.

**Guardsmen Bob**

Thanks for the replies, but I think I'll hold off using them until I field a list that can better utilize their strategy. Thanks guys!

**minigun762**

I never understood why people didn't like the stock version. Three S6 shots against side or rear armor isn't bad and you're still wounding infantry on 2's.

Volume of fire helps overcome annoying saves.

**Peregrine**

TL,DR version: Sentinels suck, Vendettas give you more firepower, more durability, more mobility, and transport capacity for the same points. There's pretty much no reason to even consider using Sentinels for anything other than gluing underneath the wings of a Valkyrie to build a Vendetta.

Ailaros wrote:
Firstly, the sentinel can outflank, and the vendetta can not. Against predators or chimera-chassised vehicles you will do more damage by attacking side or rear armor than taking a vendetta and throwing it at the front.

Even coming on from your own table edge Vendettas have the movement distance and gun range to usually get side armor.

If your opponent is holding a backfield objective with a 5-man tac or scout squad, for example, you can get into a close combat that will drag them away from an objective and likely stick them in for turn after turn.

Only if:

1) Your Sentinels survive to see a second turn after they outflank.

and

2) Your target unit can be dragged a full 3" away from the objective (since if it can't, which is probably what will happen, it's locked in combat but still scoring, which means all your Sentinels have accomplished is protecting the enemy scoring unit from your other guns).

and

3) The target unit can kill Sentinels (and not voluntarily fall back) but not effectively (for example, a 5-man tactical squad will average about 1.5 HP a turn with krak grenades alone).

I think I'd rather take the raw power of the Vendetta.

For example, vendettas are way harder to hit from most things, but sentinels don't care about the ever-growing list of things with skyfire.

Nonsense. The "ever growing list of things with skyfire" is pretty much entirely composed of things that effortlessly kill Sentinels.

**Andilus Greatsword**

They're decent, but with the Vendetta at least 40pts undercosted, Sentinels aren't going to see much serious use.

**minigun762**

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
They're decent, but with the Vendetta at least 40pts undercosted, Sentinels aren't going to see much serious use.

Very honest and true answer.

**Munga**

Wait till next codex. Take the vendetta and run. Sentinels are far too easy to kill for their points at the moment. Sure, it's a walker with a heavy weapon, but compared to other armies, it's pointless. It had its uses as a heavy weapon platform in the old rules, but since you can snap shot now, sentinels have fallen to the wayside. It's a walker that cannot benefit from being a walker in the current rules. You're better off just dragging a heavy weapons squad around IMO. Despite what everyone else seems to think, I see the flexibility in walkers, but the sentinel is just too terrible at gap filling, which is what it's supposed to do. If it had more armor or just cost less, it would be worth it. As it stands a solo sentinel with no armor upgrade is just a free KP for the opponent. I'd be hard pressed to take the armored ones solo, though. Strength in numbers and what have you.

**Ailaros**

minigun762 wrote:I never understood why people didn't like the stock version. Three S6 shots against side or rear armor isn't bad and you're still wounding infantry on 2's.

S6 isn't that great against vehicles, even against side armor. Meanwhile, for a rather trivial cost, you get AV12 armor, no open topped status, an extra hull point, a free heavy bolter/flamer, and the ability to transport troops by upgrading it to a chimera.

Sentinels only do well when you can really get some real use out of them for their relatively short time on the table.

**minigun762**

Ailaros wrote:
minigun762 wrote:I never understood why people didn't like the stock version. Three S6 shots against side or rear armor isn't bad and you're still wounding infantry on 2's.

S6 isn't that great against vehicles, even against side armor. Meanwhile, for a rather trivial cost, you get AV12 armor, no open topped status, an extra hull point, a free heavy bolter/flamer, and the ability to transport troops by upgrading it to a chimera.

Sentinels only do well when you can really get some real use out of them for their relatively short time on the table.

Chimera are very nice, but point for point the Sentinel brings more firepower while outflanking. Then again I don't see it so much as a replacement for Chimera as using 3 multilaser Sentinels instead of a pair of lascannon variants (which seems to be the most common advice if you're going to use them)

AV10
2 Lascannons = 1 hit = 1 HP. 0.83 penetrating hits
3 ML = 4.5 hits = 2.25 HP. 1.5 penetrating hits

AV11
2 Lascannons = 1 hit = 0.83 HP. 0.66 penetrating hits
3 ML = 4.5 hits = 1.5 HP. 0.75 penetrating hits

AV12
2 Lascannons = 1 hit = 0.66 HP. 0.5 penetrating hits
3 ML = 4.5 hits = 0.75 HP. 0 penetrating hits

3+ T4 (no cover)
2 Lascannons = 1 hit = 0.83 wound. 0.83 dead
3 ML = 4.5 hits = 3.75 wounds. 1.25 dead

2+/5++ T4
2 Lascannons = 1 hit = 0.83 wound. 0.55 dead
3 ML = 4.5 hits = 3.75 wounds. 0.62 dead

3+ T6 (no cover)
2 Lascannons = 1 hit = 0.83 wound.
3 ML = 4.5 hits = 2.25 wound. 0.75 unsaved wounds

So against a wide variety of targets, three multi lasers are better than a pair of lascannons. The more cover on the board, the worse off the lascannon gets. I assumed no cover to give it the best possible result.

Just food for thought.

**Ailaros**

Firstly, you missed the part where lascannons are twice as likely to cause a vehicle explosion thanks to Ap2. Add that to the calculation, and two lascannons become better against vehicles of all stripes than three multilasers. They're also better against monstrous creatures too.

Secondly, even if the sentinels did deliver more firepower, it still wouldn't be a better choice over chimeras. Chimeras start the game on the board. They protect scoring units. They move scoring units quickly onto objectives. They basically don't care about everything up to S7 (unlike an AV10 open-topped vehicle).

If chimeras had the option of taking lascannons, there really wouldn't be a point to sentinels. As they can't, then there's still a reason to take them, being a vehicular form of lascannon fire that doesn't come with the same drawbacks as fliers. When you can take the multilaser on chimeras, though, I don't see much of a point to taking sentinels thus equipped.

Especially since the only thing the multilaser does with any degree of vague competency is handle infantry, which it doesn't even do the best in its FOC (compared to hellhounds and missile vendettas), much less the codex (where you get things like punishers).

It's really tough to see what a multilaser sentinel is really adding to your average guard army. At least, that couldn't be done elsewhere better.

**pchappel**

Have to say with the local proliferation of Scouts and the like, the Heavy Flamer variant might be useful... So my old death chickens are getting repainted along with the Praetorians.... The rest? Eh, armored might be amusing but compares poorly to Chimeras...

**Griddlelol**

Corollax wrote:
Elysian drop sentinels aren't completely terrible. They're not particularly good, either. Still, you could do worse than a deep-striking Heavy Flamer (35 points) or Multi-melta (50pts).

I believe IA:1 updated them to any imperial guard FA slot. I looked at the multi melta platform for 70pts with interest, but BS:3 is just far too unreliable for that imo. The HF one might be worth it...but if it scatters it's useless.

**nerdfest09**

I have 3 unbuilt Sentinels and am unsure as to arm them best? I like the idea of them and the models appeal to me as does the fluff behind them, this thread is good for tossing ideas on how to use them best and I hope to glean some good ideas! I was considering using them with flamers and running them near my Vets?

**Thatguyhsagun**

Auto cannons are a cheap way to make them effective IMHO. S7 against transports always works

**bthom37**

Autocannon spam really seems to be the only real use for them. For when you just don't have enough ac on the board. But really, refer back to andilus' post.

**alarmingrick**

Please, if you are building 1 or some, magnetize the weapons. It's so easy I even managed to magnetize all the ones I have that are setting in foam, never used.

**Snapshot**

I always thought GW had a cheek putting Sentinels in Fast Attack. If they were actually Fast they might be more useful.

**Corollax**

Griddlelol wrote:
Corollax wrote:
Elysian drop sentinels aren't completely terrible. They're not particularly good, either. Still, you could do worse than a deep-striking Heavy Flamer (35 points) or Multi-melta (50pts).
I believe IA:1 updated them to any imperial guard FA slot. I looked at the multi melta platform for 70pts with interest, but BS:3 is just far too unreliable for that imo. The HF one might be worth it...but if it scatters it's useless.

That's correct. However, those cost 15 points more for no discernible benefit, become an easy kill point during 1/6 of your missions, and occupy what is arguably the most important FOC slot in the Imperial Guard codex.

By contrast, an Elysian drop sentinel can be used to satisfy the mandatory troop requirement for an allied contingent. This allied contingent allows you to field an additional Vendetta and Vulture. In this way, a Drop Sentinel can be part of a strategy that gives you FOC slots, rather than taking them away. Keeping your troop tax at a minimum might well be what allows you to free up the points necessary for this strategy. While I personally prefer to take a squad of plasmavets, a drop sentinel is a reasonable alternative.

EDIT: Just keep in mind that drop sentinels are not going to survive any sort of interceptor firepower. If it does get shot down before it can do anything, take solace in the fact that they didn't shoot something more valuable. Such is the way of the Imperial Guard.

**Thatguyhsagun**

Maybe elites (only real competition is Marbo and you can only have 1) would be better. And bump the squad limit to 6 IMHO, 3 AV10 2 HP walkers is like asking marines with bolters to kill you.

**Che-Vito**

< Taken by the void dragon. >

**Corollax**

Quite the contrary. You might want to take a look at this documentation from Forgeworld. Elysians are an army in their own right, and can be allied with any other contingent you desire, including the Imperial Guard themselves (with whom they are considered Battle Brothers).

**Che-Vito**

< Taken by the void dragon. >

**Corollax**

Really? Cool. I'm not sure exactly how that helps, but I'm rather glad to hear I made someone's day better. Good luck and have fun!

**Che-Vito**

< Taken by the void dragon. >

**Corollax**

Err...I'm afraid you have misunderstood. The Elysians are useful in this regard since they independently get access to the Vendetta and Vulture models in their own allied FOC slots. You don't have permission to take primary detachment units in the allied FOC slots.

Sorry if I was unclear.

EDIT: Though apparently there is a Forgeworld army called the Ork Dread Mob. Perhaps these might assist you in a similar fashion? I don't know anything about them, though. (Which is rather pathetic, since they apparently come from the same book that the Elysians do. Shows what I know.

)

**Che-Vito**

< Taken by the void dragon. >