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Thats the name people have given him, and I don't think he deserves it. This is a guy who took a defeated army that just lost a war, who's leaders had either died or left them to live with the gods in pleasure palaces/gladiatorial arenas, slowly rebuilt them, and after 10,000 years in exile returns to and beats the crap out of the Imperium taking their most heaviloy fortified world. The main accusation is that Horus besieged Terra, well Horus also was killed by the Emperor and his armies callasped, if anything the current state of the forces of Chaos owes more to foolishness of the Traitor Primarchs than anything else. Even Curze who given my username I obviously like had a really crappy way to expend his Legion leading them in a custards last stand against the Imperium before allowing himself to be killed. The way I see it they were lazy, Horus just wanted to walk into the Imperial palace without truly defeated the Emperors armies, and Curze suffered from a different weakness. His weakness was his inability to endure suffering and its easier to die than to suffer. Really the only Primarch that thought ahead was Lorgar, which is probably why he's one of the only Primarchs with a Legion intact.

Abaddon on the other hand has endured. He's endured retreat, humiliation, exile, treason among his supposed allies, his legionaries being driven mad and killed by the warp,. Yet he and his Legion endured. The Dreadnoughts went insane so he ordered the construction of the defilers to take their place( conflicting fluff about this). His men were dying because of demonic possession yet somehow they or he found and answer. He's leached strength from other Legion but is that really a bad thing given that some of the other Legions are shattered? Instead of letting them float around as renegades pillaging he's organised them into an effective fighting force. He's mocked by some for relying on traitor guard but that seems smart to me, unlike other legions that see mortals as slaves and sacrifices he knows that just as in the great crusade they need auxiliaries. Because of this i'd say that the Black Legion may be the only true Legion on either side of the conflict because they alone can call upon mortal armies numbering in the billions of soldiers to support them.

As evidence to my claim the testimony of Ruven. Someone with every reasons to hate the Warmaster who says that he is the death of the Imperium and who commands greater strength than Horus ever did.

He's a guy who took an army that was nearly defeated and hid like a bitch in the one part of the galaxy where the Imperium couldn't follow and rip him apart. While cowering in said bitchland for thousands of years, he's finally amassed a large enough army to threaten the Imperium, but said army is still only one one-thousandth of the Imperium's army size, and is only effective because the Imperium is too busy fighting everything on all sides to focus all their forces on the guy. He's taken advantage of this weakness by taking Cadia, and is now utilizing one of the worst strategies in 40K history, to slowly, ever so slowly, leap-frog from planet to planet, creating daemons worlds, on his way to Terra. A plan that's going to take like a thousand years to complete because even when traveling in a straight line, it takes fething forever to get to Terra that way. Meanwhile, his forces are going to get picked off and bled by the Imperium and Eldar all the way to Terra until he has nothing left, because Chaos can't replenish their forces as quickly as the Imperium can.

Yeah, go Abaddon.

The reason for taking Cadia was that Cadia blocked the only stable route out of the Eye, with it fallen the Imperium will always be vulnerable to attack.

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:
The reason for taking Cadia was that Cadia blocked the only stable route out of the Eye, with it fallen the Imperium will always be vulnerable to attack.

Little correction, Cadia IS the only stable route out of the Eye. So generally speaking if he take her he will collapse only stable route in existence and trap himself and the rest of his CSM in the Eye until one day who-knows-when new route is opened randomly ( that will last only for so long ).

Failbaddon suits him nicely.

He is Failabbaddon the Armless. A frakwit that can't run a grocery-store nevermind a world-conquering army and he rules by intimidation with equally stupid pawns. Hahah. Just kidding. That's him in fanom. In the game as soon as Abbaddon the Despoiler rears his ugly head the IOM sics everything they have on him. That's why he can't win. He is in such a position that his fame is his greatest enemy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You should add an opinion for both. Like how I myself view him.

I've only seen him used once in battle. He deep struck, by himself in the middle of my army. he managed to die relatively quickly..

I love Abaddon. When Horus died and the other Primarchs ran around in circles with their heads cut off, Abaddon, as a simple captain, stood up and told the other Primarchs listen the feth here.

Abaddon is suppose to to be good at strategy, extremely capable warrior, and was able to tell the other Primarchs who should be his superiors to listen to him.

He is kind of a badass in my book

The new CSM reflects that GW understands the "Failaddon" phenomena a bit. It's more or less retconned that the 12 previous Black Crusades were each a calculated blow to weaken the Imperium for the ultimate 13th, which is the beginning of his master plan (the crimson path). They were not each a separate attempt to conquer the Imperium or even capture Cadia. This reduces the whole Failaddon a bit for those who are new to the universe, but so much for veterans....

Considering he still hasn't taken Cadia, I'll reserve judgement.

There's no doubt that Cadia's a tough nut to crack, but when Failbaddon still can't seize it wholly, and in the fluff, lost much of his fleet in gaining as much ground as he has, he doesn't stand a good chance of marching forwards.

The key really is naval strength; the Black Legion, and Abaddon's other forces can replenish their numbers somewhat, mostly from traitor guard, but it's a limited process. His Crimson Path plan makes a certain amount of sense, but he doesn't have the manpower to wage that kind of long attritional war. Furthermore, he basically can't replace his lost warships. Chaos vessels tend to be ancient, irreplaceable, save for the smaller escorts and basic cruisers. They rely on traitors to fill their ranks, and it's harder to get a warship to turn, or a fleet, than a lowly guardsman. Contact is much more indirect, subversion much more difficult, and even if they can get some Imperials to turn, or get the Dark Mechanicum to increase production of what vessels they can build, the Imperium can still drown them in warships. Good luck crossing the void without ships.

Basically, I don't see Chaos as being the primary threat to the Imperium, not with the state of the 13th Black Crusade. Despite 10,000 years of experience and the blessings of dark gods, Abaddon and his band of traitors haven't shown much aptitude at whittling the Imperium down, and have suffered enormous casualties which they are ill suited to replace. Ghazghul represents a bigger threat to the Imperium of Man, I'd wager, or the Necrons, and most certainly the Tyranids.

Chaos as a concept, dangerous, subversive, problematic. The actual Traitor Legions, and Abby at the helm, increasingly less so.

All Abaddon wants is a hug. But sadly, he has no arms. Thats why he is so angry he has to launch the Black Crusades. He is in a lot of emotional pain. A tortured soul, who tortures souls.

I think Abaddon's failures are more based on the differences between everyone he is trying to unite. im not that well versed in chaos fluff but it seems that it may be a to many cooks in the kitchen type deal with everyone trying to put in input then leave him to his own devices. but on the tabletop every time I've seen him he has died quick... or his arms fell off mid game.

Abbadon won the battle but lost the war. The Imperium of Man lost the ground invasion but retains nearly-complete naval dominance. Abbadon would not even be considered a failure if he was a painted accurately as an incredibly powerful warlord who can and does feth gak up for the IoM. Instead he gets stuck in the role as a wannabe Horus. Abbadon is a failure because he is forced to meet an impossible burden. Turning Chaos into a galactic-level threat onpar with the Necrons and the Tyranids. By almost any standard Cadia could be viewed as victory except for that one. I voted Failbaddon not because I think Abbadon sucks but because I think he has and always will fail to live up to the mantle GW has bestowed upon him.

Failbaddon. LOL!

Actually his plan is great if he ever can get past cadia. Imagine a war where your bases are unassailable and when he starts taking forgeworlds he will have a huge boost in reinforcements.

Does anyone know the fluff on chaos SM creation? There appear to be newly created SM if you look at the veterans of the long war in the codex. There also appear to be pseudo forgeworlds in the eye from what I remember of the fluff.

He will never win candia though cause creed removes the pins from any abadon model so the arms fall off.

Everyone keeps saying he has taken Cadia, Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought he only got a small foothold on it. Unless the fluff has changed dramatically in their newest Codex, Cadia is still an Imperial planet and one that in eyes can't and won't be conquered.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Excellent Points.

I agree.

Chaos as a force is dangerous. It's a subversive canker that eats away at the heart of the Imperium. It's responsible for humanities infighting. It's a corrosive force that can never be truly beaten. It preys on man's very soul.

The traitor legions on the other hand are a diminishing force. They simply don't have, and can't obtain the infrastructure that the Imperium has. It's logistics that's wins wars. Based in the Eye they're safe from invasion but they also suffer all the problems of living in an area were warp space is bleeding through; gene-seed mutation, a lack of habitable and cultivable worlds, the attention of capricious gods etc They simply can't replace their losses in any comparable way to the Imperium.

@Watchamacarcess

You're correct Cadia itself is still contested (though the Imperium controls the great majority of it). More importantly however is that at the end of the Eye of Terror campaign the Imperial Navy had regained orbital superiority across the warzone. That's crucial. All those chaos armies are now stuck on the worlds they've conquered. The Imperium can take them back at their leisure. Chaos' position is untenable.

 rems01 wrote:

You're correct Cadia itself is still contested (though the Imperium controls the great majority of it). More importantly however is that at the end of the Eye of Terror campaign the Imperial Navy had regained orbital superiority across the warzone. That's crucial. All those chaos armies are now stuck on the worlds they've conquered. The Imperium can take them back at their leisure. Chaos' position is untenable.

Chaos as demonstrated multiple times in the past the ability to 'jump' from one world to another. Armaggeddon, for exemple.

Sure, I don't think it's safe to plan on the whims of the Chaos Gods, but since they have a vested interest in Abaddon's campaign, I doubt they would leave him stranded to die on Cadia.

 ansacs wrote:
Actually his plan is great if he ever can get past cadia. Imagine a war where your bases are unassailable and when he starts taking forgeworlds he will have a huge boost in reinforcements.

The problem is if he takes Cadia the way the new codex proposes, he's shooting himself in the foot. If the Warp envelops Cadia, that closes the only stable path out of the Eye of Terror. To take the Cadian Gate, Cadia needs to remain free of the Eye. If it is overwhelmed by the Warp, then they will be trapped there and forced to find a new way out of the Eye. Cadia isn't some teleporting pad that lets Abaddon jump to any planet he wants like a Quake player. It needs to stay open or else his troops will be trapped.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

 rems01 wrote:

You're correct Cadia itself is still contested (though the Imperium controls the great majority of it). More importantly however is that at the end of the Eye of Terror campaign the Imperial Navy had regained orbital superiority across the warzone. That's crucial. All those chaos armies are now stuck on the worlds they've conquered. The Imperium can take them back at their leisure. Chaos' position is untenable.

Chaos as demonstrated multiple times in the past the ability to 'jump' from one world to another. Armaggeddon, for exemple.

Sure, I don't think it's safe to plan on the whims of the Chaos Gods, but since they have a vested interest in Abaddon's campaign, I doubt they would leave him stranded to die on Cadia.

It doesn't matter if he escapes. Heck, it doesn't matter if he somehow gets around the gaping plot hole of pulling Cadia into the eye trapping him in the process. The fact remains that he faces an overwhelming logistical force. He is the robert e lee of 40k

 rems01 wrote:

You're correct Cadia itself is still contested (though the Imperium controls the great majority of it). More importantly however is that at the end of the Eye of Terror campaign the Imperial Navy had regained orbital superiority across the warzone. That's crucial. All those chaos armies are now stuck on the worlds they've conquered. The Imperium can take them back at their leisure. Chaos' position is untenable.

Incorrect. The Imperium controls less than half of Cadia. It was 39.8% at the end, down from an initial 95%

See Eye of Terror campaign results:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/392010.page

Also the Imperium didn't have orbital superiority. They had sector level superiority which is not the same thing. Sector level represented deep space and minor worlds not worthy of being a separate warzone in themselves. Orbital superiority for significant systems was represented by the system level Imperial Control, and Chaos had the advantage in the Cadian solar system. Imperial control of the Cadian system at the end was 29.4% from an initial 92%.

Also if one looks in the Apocalypse book it shows Abaddon in the Thesus sector with a fully functioning Planet Killer and still leading the 13th Black Crusade. This means that Abaddon and his personal forces have moved beyond the Cadian Gate since the Thesus sector was not one of the zones in the Eye of Terror campaign and thus not in the immediate Cadian Gate region, and that the Planet Killer is operational once more.

A good portion of the misconceptions about Abaddon and the 13th Black Crusade stem purely from the fact people haven't got the correct information and are working off of fallible memories or hearsay from other people.

Given that the Imperial and Eldar fleet defeated the Chaos fleet above Cadia and chased off the Blackstone, they do in fact have orbital (and sector level) space superiority. Which renders Chaos occupation of Cadia at any level moot.

I'm going by the fluff text in the result white dwarfs rather than the raw mechanics, this being the fluff forum and a fluff discussion after all.

 rems01 wrote:
Given that the Imperial and Eldar fleet defeated the Chaos fleet above Cadia and chased off the Blackstone, they do in fact have orbital (and sector level) space superiority. Which renders Chaos occupation of Cadia at any level moot.

I'm going by the fluff text in the result white dwarfs rather than the raw mechanics, this being the fluff forum and a fluff discussion after all.

You would still be incorrect because you have neglected to include the final part of the White Dwarf article which documents the destruction of the Cadian HQ of Kasr Partox, the Eldar fleet, and then the Necron fleet by the Blackstone Fortress before it disengaged. In other words, the Blackstone Fortress is still in Chaos hands and is still a force to be reckoned with. The Imperials do not have orbital superiority over Cadia itself, as the space superiority consists explicitly of reinforcements from Battlefleet Solar. That is an untenable situation given how in the old Tyranid Codex, Battlefleet Solar was battered by Hive Fleet Leviathan. At some point, the additional reinforcements will need to move off or they will end up having to leave other areas exposed.

Ursarkar Creed stood on the shores of the Caducades Sea. He has watched with heavy heart as the dazzling beam of light from the heavens destroyed the last remnants of Kasr Partox. Its proud walls had collapsed in a blazing pyre, smoke billowing into the sky from the destruction of the fortress as intolerable heat advanced across the shoreline. Thought the beam had since vanished, the day here was lost, any fool could see that. All that was left to them was vengeance. The Eldar fleet had been obliterated and the alien ships that had unexpectedly come their aid were gone; wiped out in an instant by the Blackstone's terrifying defences.

-Final Hours, by Graham McNeill, WD 287

As I already mentioned earlier too, Abaddon has subsequently in background been shown to be in the Thesus sector with the Planet Killer once more operational. So even its damage in the aftermath of destroying the planet Macharia in the Cadian system did not knock it out for long.

Finally if one goes back to the Eye of Terror Codex it documents the following about Cadia's orbital defences of 3 Ramilies star forts:

A single Ramilies star fort fell to the invaders, the remaining two managing to overload their reactors and self-destruct...

-p.14, Eye of Terror Codex

A star fort is not a small thing if you look up its BFG background and stats. Thing is people need to remember that in 40K, space power is not the be all and end all of combat and never has been in the 40K combat paradigm. GW has constructed a universe where space power is NOT the supreme be all and end all of the military forces. Arguing how it "should" be in your own personal fan universe has no bearing on the paradigm for the fictional universe that GW as IP holder has constructed.

In the 40K universe paradigm, space power is one arm, an important one, but not the only one that matters. In particular, with reference to the BFG rulebook, the firepower of ground defense installations actually is superior to a bombarding ship, and is likely far more affordable in terms of cost. The average planetary defense laser silo packs almost as much firepower as the broadside of a Gothic cruiser, with greater range than the Gothic. Likewise, the average planetary defense missile silo has the launch capacity of a full cruiser, and the average planetary defense air base has enough short range aerospace fighters and bombers to match a Dictator cruiser. Having an advantage in space is an advantage to be sure but it is not a guarantee of winning. Flawed assumptions of this was just one of the reasons why Imperial players actually lost that campaign. At a convention, when some players raised this same issue with Andy Chambers in an attempt to convince him of the "right" outcome of the campaign, his answer was "Daemons and warp gates". Remember that Chaos has access to unconventional sources of reinforcements or movement.

From the GW campaign newsletter:

Final Newsletter

Cadia
The bleak moors of Cadia are reduced to a barren, crater-pocked wasteland, blasted by orbital torpedoes, super-heavy artillery and the footfall of titans. The Vilklas and Andur defence lines have collapsed under the relentless pressure of a million frenzied cultists, traitors and mutants, and the Cadian High Command has been forced to relocate to Kasr Gallan on the far side of the Caducades Sea. Though the Imperial Navy is in control of the inter-system space lanes, Chaos rules the skies above Cadia since the orbital defences fell in the opening days of the Black Crusade. The defenders of Cadia are now deployed around Kasr Gallan and throughout the Wastes, resolute that not a backward step shall be taken. The order is given- ‘stand at Cadia, or damn the Imperium of Mankind to the depredations of Chaos for all eternity’.

The space lanes
The Imperial Navy has fought with courage and vigour throughout the war, ruthlessly taking the battle to the enemy wherever it encountered them. Admiral Quarren has been hailed a true hero of the Imperium, for his masterful defence of the space lanes was all that stood between survival, and utter defeat for the Imperium. Though Cadia is besieged, the Imperial Navy commands space, and is able to offer support to beleaguered forces on the ground. The only question is whether the rapid redeployment of almost the entirety of Battle Fleet Gothic, along with a substantial proportion of Battle Fleet Solar will leave the Navy dangerously overstretched elsewhere and unable to maintain the level of operations required to hold the line at the Cadian Gate.

It explicitly says Chaos rules the skies above Cadia. The Imperium has gained space superiority in the operational theater as a whole through the reinforcements but this is admitted to leave the Imperium exposed elsewhere, and that the Imperial Navy is able to offer support to Imperial forces on Cadia. Support, not suddenly blasting Chaos off Cadia with impunity from orbit. Again, in the 40K universe, space power is not supreme.

My 2 cents - as 13 crusades shows, he doesn't give up.

Also, although a poor craftsman blames his tools, each of his tools hates the other tools. Even getting the various Chaos factions to work together should get him some sort of respect.

@Iracundus

All those points stand but you are missing one very crucial thing - main Imperial reinforcements hadn't arrived yet to help and that includes Navy + Guard Regiments + Astartes Chapters + Sister Orders and more crucially the Rock itself with all Dark Angels successor chapters. And if fluff is true then Lion will awaken and take control of Dark Angels once they reach Cadia and I seriously doubt that Chaos forces on the planet could stand against Primarch. One more thing to consider is that Space Wolves 13'th company is helping Cadian on the ground so that means that Russ is also somewhere out there.

I pretty much doubt that Abbadon will be able to hold against two Primarchs, one with his Legion behind him ( Dark Angels + all of their successors ), even if Chaos Primarchs join the battle Imperium will already have numerical superiority and I guess it will not be a problem for HLoT to send entire Grey Knights Chapter to help out.

One more question about Cadia: if Cadia is so important to the Imperium why don't HLoT ask for Custodes assistance? Sure they are there to guard the Emperor but they have numerical superiority so they could at least send half of their order to assist in pushing back Chaos hordes ( Cadia itself is important as Terra itself so basically guarding Cadia is same as guarding the Emperor himself ). Surely having 5000 Custodes at your side would tip the balance toward Imperials.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
@Iracundus

All those points stand but you are missing one very crucial thing - main Imperial reinforcements hadn't arrived yet to help and that includes Navy + Guard Regiments + Astartes Chapters + Sister Orders and more crucially the Rock itself with all Dark Angels successor chapters. And if fluff is true then Lion will awaken and take control of Dark Angels once they reach Cadia and I seriously doubt that Chaos forces on the planet could stand against Primarch. One more thing to consider is that Space Wolves 13'th company is helping Cadian on the ground so that means that Russ is also somewhere out there.

I pretty much doubt that Abbadon will be able to hold against two Primarchs, one with his Legion behind him ( Dark Angels + all of their successors ), even if Chaos Primarchs join the battle Imperium will already have numerical superiority and I guess it will not be a problem for HLoT to send entire Grey Knights Chapter to help out.

One more question about Cadia: if Cadia is so important to the Imperium why don't HLoT ask for Custodes assistance? Sure they are there to guard the Emperor but they have numerical superiority so they could at least send half of their order to assist in pushing back Chaos hordes ( Cadia itself is important as Terra itself so basically guarding Cadia is same as guarding the Emperor himself ). Surely having 5000 Custodes at your side would tip the balance toward Imperials.

Some pretty big assumptions there. Lion waking up, Russ turning up, but let's play the primatrch game. Let's take a look at a few names abaddon can call upon, magnus the Red, lorgar, fulgrim, mortarion, preturabo, all of which may not answer abadon directly but may love the chance to off a couple of primarchs.

The Rock v planet killer or Blackstone fortress does not end well for the Rock.

The imperium was reeling, they committed everything they could, with segmentum solar fleets arriving to try and stem the tide. They are still contending with Leviathan and Armageddon.

And as icarandus said, the Cadian orbit was safely chaos controlled.
The imperial defence had already tapped the region surrounding the eye of terror and beyond. Its not a walkover by any stretch of the imagination.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
@Iracundus

All those points stand but you are missing one very crucial thing - main Imperial reinforcements hadn't arrived yet to help and that includes Navy + Guard Regiments + Astartes Chapters + Sister Orders and more crucially the Rock itself with all Dark Angels successor chapters. And if fluff is true then Lion will awaken and take control of Dark Angels once they reach Cadia and I seriously doubt that Chaos forces on the planet could stand against Primarch. One more thing to consider is that Space Wolves 13'th company is helping Cadian on the ground so that means that Russ is also somewhere out there.

I pretty much doubt that Abbadon will be able to hold against two Primarchs, one with his Legion behind him ( Dark Angels + all of their successors ), even if Chaos Primarchs join the battle Imperium will already have numerical superiority and I guess it will not be a problem for HLoT to send entire Grey Knights Chapter to help out.

One more question about Cadia: if Cadia is so important to the Imperium why don't HLoT ask for Custodes assistance? Sure they are there to guard the Emperor but they have numerical superiority so they could at least send half of their order to assist in pushing back Chaos hordes ( Cadia itself is important as Terra itself so basically guarding Cadia is same as guarding the Emperor himself ). Surely having 5000 Custodes at your side would tip the balance toward Imperials.

The first round of reinforcements, from Battlefleet Solar itself, already reached the Cadian Gate and was heavily involved in the battles there. Further reinforcements will have to somehow penetrate the warpstorms summoned by good old Erebus himself. The Custodes are tasked with protecting the carriongod's corpse. They haven't left Terra for 10000 years. The 13. company and Leman Russ aren't connected, Russ disappeared after the Heresy while the 13. company disappeared after the Battle of Prospero. The Grey Knights are mean't to destroy daemons and not to fight in costly wars of attrition.
The primarchs are all either dead or incapacitated and even if they were still alive and active, they are far from being invulnerable.

"Well that leaves 13 unsuccessful black crusades, but I have a good feeling about the next one..." Failbaddon

He's Abaddon. Plain and simple. He'll beat the living gak out of you if you say otherwise.

R3YNO wrote:
"Well that leaves 13 unsuccessful black crusades, but I have a good feeling about the next one..." Failbaddon

Well no. They each had an objective. The 1st obtained drchn'yen for example. It may not seem like much, but with it and the Taolon of Horus Abaddon ensured that nobody could assail his position as 'warmaster', he's just too powerful.
Subsequent attempts destroyed naval ship yards, and aquired the blackstone fortresses.

The black crusades were not purely aimed at destoying terra or cadia, some even circumnavigated and ignored them completely.
Instead each 'Crusade' is set to aquire assets for abaddon to expand his power base, or weaken the imperium by preventing use of or destroying their assets before assaulting.

That's not failing. That's being smart.

I still call him Abbadon unless I'm trolling Chaos Space Marine players.

So I guess I never actually call him Abbadon in public.

But I still hate the meme surrounding him. Like most memes, it's stupid.