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Wasn't aware roaring while killing was sossery.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Also isn't there a rumor about Necrons appearing on Cadia to combat Chaos the moment Abaddon start to tear down their pylons?

And Eldar joining the battle too? I guess that they too wouldn't be too happy about Eye of Terror expanding... maybe Magun Ra will redo his Tyranid smashin but with Chaos Legions this time

They attempted, yes. The Necrons involved won some minor victories in outlying sectors, but did not face the Black Crusade upon Cadia itself. Likewise, I seem to recall the Eldar participating in some sub-sector space battles, but also did not fight on/around Cadia. Really, the BRs from the world-wide campaign basically tell you the whole story.

Im glad to see the results of this poll are pro-Abaddon

He's an interesting villain, a more-or-less human face on the teeming hordes of Chaos that works well as a recurring character in the setting. It's also less about what he does, individually, than what he makes possible, tactically, and the Imperium falls for it pretty much every time, though also, to be fair, out of necessity.

As the saying goes, "The diversion you are ignoring is the main attack".

Never actually called him failbaddon, but considering how many times he's actually failed while rallying a united chaos army against the imperium, i kind of think he deserves the name, as to why the chaos gods still favor him after so many failures i'll never know

Because he has failed only from a very limited viewpoint. The Chaos Gods, themselves, love this guy, because he ensures that their influences grow more powerful with every crusade he launches. Massive combat, massive intrigues and plots, massive amounts of people doing what they derive great pleasure (and dish out much pain) doing, massive upswings in plagues and epidemics as planets run short of needed medicines...

... The Despoiler serves up Chaotic Influence like a server at Red Robin.

 Psienesis wrote:
Because he has failed only from a very limited viewpoint. The Chaos Gods, themselves, love this guy, because he ensures that their influences grow more powerful with every crusade he launches. Massive combat, massive intrigues and plots, massive amounts of people doing what they derive great pleasure (and dish out much pain) doing, massive upswings in plagues and epidemics as planets run short of needed medicines...

... The Despoiler serves up Chaotic Influence like a server at Red Robin.

This... so much this.

Viersche wrote:Never actually called him failbaddon, but considering how many times he's actually failed while rallying a united chaos army against the imperium, i kind of think he deserves the name, as to why the chaos gods still favor him after so many failures i'll never know

Alright, so would you consider D-Day a failure because, while it hurt the Nazis, it didn't kill them all in one day?

That's the thing. The Black Crusades are meant to whittle away at the Imperium, and steal more slaves and supplies for the Traitor Legions in the process. A single Black Crusade isn't intended to wipe out the Imperium. They're all just building up towards the strike at Terra.

Personally, I like abbadon on the table when used properly he is an absolute monster and fluff-wise he is 'technically' the only space marine to have killed a primarch eg when he choked to death the baby Horus clone.

The eye is clearly a choke point. Cadia is the point just beyond the choke, assuming you can strike Cadia from any other point in the solar system. All of his forces are behind the choke point therefore are of no use. Any force in the solar system can get to Cadia; most of the forces in the warp, the exception being of course the ones next to the eye, can not. Therefore it is harder for Chaos to reinforce Cadia than the Cadians. This means that it doesn't matter how easily Abaddon can replenish his troops because he isn't going to use them at any rate until he's taken over half the solar system. What matters is how easily the Imperium has access to Cadia from the rest of the solar system.

So to cut the the important question, how many planets in Cadia's solar system are militaristically oriented?

 Soladrin wrote:
We all know cadians already have a third very muscular arm.

Just made my day!

So the really interesting thing is, due to the choke point, it doesn't make any difference that he has limited resources. Of course if he makes it past Cadia that will change.

zilegil wrote:
So the really interesting thing is, due to the choke point, it doesn't make any difference that he has limited resources. Of course if he makes it past Cadia that will change.

It kinda matters. If Abby doesn't have enough resources, he'll never break out of the Eye.

if you ask me, Abaddon has the same problem Aquaman has.

He's an unholy, monstrous badass. That's all there is to it. Out of all of the Chaos Marines and Daemon Princes - some of whom are Daemon Primarchs - this guy is the one the Gods want running their team.
Why? Because he gets the job done. Not the job of conquest, because anyone with a brain knows that's not what the Chaos Gods are about. They want worship, they want emotion, they want a tonne of anarchy and violence, and Abaddon delivers in spades. In addition, the Crusades he's launched have been stated to be leadups or feints in newer fluff, and even in the older fluff it's implied that their objectives were actually fulfilled more often than not.

And yet he still gets a tough break compared to every other character. Why?
Because he talks to fish/appears to "fail."
Doesn't matter if you can fight most everyone in the DC Universe to a standstill. Doesn't matter if the Chaos Gods are so pleased with you that they keep offering you daemonhood, and don't understand why you're not accepting it.
You're that one guy the fandom likes taking potshots at, and that's who you'll be forever.

Posting just to express my hate for stupid nicknames like Failbaddon.

 Selym wrote:

zilegil wrote:
So the really interesting thing is, due to the choke point, it doesn't make any difference that he has limited resources. Of course if he makes it past Cadia that will change.

It kinda matters. If Abby doesn't have enough resources, he'll never break out of the Eye.

Well, not quite. If he can't use them as they're in the warp then the only use he has until he's outside Cadia is for attrition. In those terms the IOM outdo him greatly.

zilegil wrote:

 Selym wrote:

zilegil wrote:
So the really interesting thing is, due to the choke point, it doesn't make any difference that he has limited resources. Of course if he makes it past Cadia that will change.

It kinda matters. If Abby doesn't have enough resources, he'll never break out of the Eye.

Well, not quite. If he can't use them as they're in the warp then the only use he has until he's outside Cadia is for attrition. In those terms the IOM outdo him greatly.

Did you know that it is possible to fight whilst in the warp?
Or that the Eye is part reality, part warp, so that Imperials too can fight there?

That is why Abby needs manpower to get out.

Unless the writers at GW are stupid (and, let's face it, they can be, at times) Abaddon doesn't need to ship reinforcements in from space. That's what sorcerers are for. You have your Daemon World in the Eye just chilling, stockpiling munitions and troops, you get to whatever planet you want to invade, and then you open a gate between Points A and B, and have all those dudes and tanks and such just walk through, no mess, no fuss (other than the human sacrifices required to open the gate, but, they don't count).

 Selym wrote:

zilegil wrote:

 Selym wrote:

zilegil wrote:
So the really interesting thing is, due to the choke point, it doesn't make any difference that he has limited resources. Of course if he makes it past Cadia that will change.

It kinda matters. If Abby doesn't have enough resources, he'll never break out of the Eye.

Well, not quite. If he can't use them as they're in the warp then the only use he has until he's outside Cadia is for attrition. In those terms the IOM outdo him greatly.

Did you know that it is possible to fight whilst in the warp?
Or that the Eye is part reality, part warp, so that Imperials too can fight there?

That is why Abby needs manpower to get out.

No? I might need to look into that.

The main reason why I'm dubious of Abaddon's claims is that so far the Xenos have done much more damage to the Imperium in a much shorter period of time. The entirety of Ultima Segmentum is at risk of collapsing under the Tyranid assault, Gazghkull is running loose in Segmentum Solar, the Imperium can't handle all these Necron dynasties waking up again and the Tau's plans for expansion are going swimmingly. Overall it seems that the threat without is a much more serious one than the threat within.

Although I suppose that's why it's called the Time of Ending. It's the first time since the great crusade that aliens have posed a greater threat to continued Imperial hegemony than it's own internal issues (including Chaos) now that not one, but two game over level threats are starting to hammer at the Imperium at full force. And ever more xenos seem to keep on crawling out of the wood works like sharks attracted to the scent of a dying animal. What with the Rak'gol, the Slaugth playing Oldcron, the recent Hrud migrations, the Thyrrus getting more uppity than ever, the Barghesi needing multiple dedicated marine chapters to keep hemmed in their little area, and more empires like the Tau eating chunks out of the Imperium.

For someone advertised as *the* threat to the Imperium, he seems extremely unlikely to get to Terra before the xenos devour the Imperium piece by piece. Rather it seems that the most likely end for the Imperium is a snowball collapse event once the dam against the Xenos breaks. Once the Imperium's back is broken I expect Terra to be swept under a tide of Necrons, Orks, or Tyranids while Abaddon is stuck fighting random minor xeno empire #391 in his attempt to get to Sol.

Edited and re-organised for ease of replying:

 Kain wrote:

1) The main reason why I'm dubious of Abaddon's claims is that so far the Xenos have done much more damage to the Imperium in a much shorter period of time.

2) The entirety of Ultima Segmentum is at risk of collapsing under the Tyranid assault, Gazghkull is running loose in Segmentum Solar, the Imperium can't handle all these Necron dynasties waking up again and the Tau's plans for expansion are going swimmingly. Overall it seems that the threat without is a much more serious one than the threat within.

3) For someone advertised as *the* threat to the Imperium, he seems extremely unlikely to get to Terra before the xenos devour the Imperium piece by piece.

4) Rather it seems that the most likely end for the Imperium is a snowball collapse event once the dam against the Xenos breaks. Once the Imperium's back is broken I expect Terra to be swept under a tide of Necrons, Orks, or Tyranids while Abaddon is stuck fighting random minor xeno empire #391 in his attempt to get to Sol.

1) On a galactic scale, yes. But one measurement we cannot be sure of is how much manpower is shoved down the EoT's greedy gullet every day, compared to everything else.

2) Well it seems that way, yes.

3) Well, it depends on whether the IOM can keep up the war effort at the EoT. It may be that at some point the IOM decides the xenos are too great a threat, and shift the majority of the workforce over somewhere else. At that point it's anyone's guess as to how fast Abaddon can move.

4) Could very well be true.

He was pretty cool in the Horus Heresy books, although he's always had a silly haircut.

He needs a helmet and a less generic name. And get rid of that ridiculous top-knot.

The way I see is that Cadia is more than a way point, its where the Imperium is making its stand, Terra is relatively undefended, the Cadia sector falls and the Imperial and Space Marines that are defending die and its an open road to the Emperor.

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:
The way I see is that Cadia is more than a way point, its where the Imperium is making its stand, Terra is relatively undefended, the Cadia sector falls and the Imperial and Space Marines that are defending die and its an open road to the Emperor.

I'm fairly certain that Terra actually has more defences than it did during the HH. And there's Mars, Titan, many thousands of light years of travel, the fact that all Imperial forces will return to Terra the moment they're called...

It's not quite as easy as "Escape Cadia ---> Fly over to Terra ---> Auto win."

 Kain wrote:
The main reason why I'm dubious of Abaddon's claims is that so far the Xenos have done much more damage to the Imperium in a much shorter period of time. The entirety of Ultima Segmentum is at risk of collapsing under the Tyranid assault, Gazghkull is running loose in Segmentum Solar, the Imperium can't handle all these Necron dynasties waking up again and the Tau's plans for expansion are going swimmingly. Overall it seems that the threat without is a much more serious one than the threat within.

Although I suppose that's why it's called the Time of Ending. It's the first time since the great crusade that aliens have posed a greater threat to continued Imperial hegemony than it's own internal issues (including Chaos) now that not one, but two game over level threats are starting to hammer at the Imperium at full force. And ever more xenos seem to keep on crawling out of the wood works like sharks attracted to the scent of a dying animal. What with the Rak'gol, the Slaugth playing Oldcron, the recent Hrud migrations, the Thyrrus getting more uppity than ever, the Barghesi needing multiple dedicated marine chapters to keep hemmed in their little area, and more empires like the Tau eating chunks out of the Imperium.

For someone advertised as *the* threat to the Imperium, he seems extremely unlikely to get to Terra before the xenos devour the Imperium piece by piece. Rather it seems that the most likely end for the Imperium is a snowball collapse event once the dam against the Xenos breaks. Once the Imperium's back is broken I expect Terra to be swept under a tide of Necrons, Orks, or Tyranids while Abaddon is stuck fighting random minor xeno empire #391 in his attempt to get to Sol.

TLDR version: Abaddon fails because he can't match the efforts of every Xenos race in the Galaxy. Good argument, solid.

 Happyjew wrote:
I've only seen him used once in battle. He deep struck, by himself in the middle of my army. he managed to die relatively quickly..

Bad tactics dont equal a bad mini.

At 1d4chan they say something like this: Horus had the galaxy in his grasp and somehow managed to let it slip away, Failbaddon doesn't even have ARMS to hold a galaxy.

Besides, he will always be outsmarted by Creed

bahzakhain wrote:
At 1d4chan they say something like this: Horus had the galaxy in his grasp and somehow managed to let it slip away, Failbaddon doesn't even have ARMS to hold a galaxy.

Besides, he will always be outsmarted by Creed

Considering Creed lost over half of Cadia during the Eye of Terror campaign and it was Admiral Quarren that prevented the thing from being a total Imperial rout, that's overstating it. If anything, one of the Commissars should be having a word with Creed.

Iracundus wrote:

bahzakhain wrote:
At 1d4chan they say something like this: Horus had the galaxy in his grasp and somehow managed to let it slip away, Failbaddon doesn't even have ARMS to hold a galaxy.

Besides, he will always be outsmarted by Creed

Considering Creed lost over half of Cadia during the Eye of Terror campaign and it was Admiral Quarren that prevented the thing from being a total Imperial rout, that's overstating it. If anything, one of the Commissars should be having a word with Creed.

He didn't actually "lose" half of Cadia. He merely hid most of his forces. When the signal is given, Stormtroopers will step out from behind lamp posts, Leman Russ battle tanks shall emerge from ruined homes and Titans will appear out of the enemy's toenails. Abaddon will be taken completely by surprise.

Would you expect anything less from a tactical genius?