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FarseerAndyMan wrote:
Im telling ya guys--

GW tanks, sells its IP to FFG so they can make the RPG stuff and then Rick Priestly buys the miniature rights--problem solved!!

And someone makes a big budget movie! (or tv show)

 BryllCream wrote:

 Morachi wrote:
The fact that in 2009 they actually sent eBay a letter requesting any 2nd hand sales be blocked. Thankfully eBay told them to shove it.

A quick google search gave me a thread on dakkadakka where someone says that he received a message from someone on ebay, saying that GW didn't want his store selling new GW products on ebay, which is a million miles from what you suggested. Do you have a source?

I am interested in this too

Ive said before that an attempt to restrict all 2nd hand sales would be outrageous - did this actually happen , or has there been a slight stretching of a GW attempt to restrict the sales of new items on EBay ( I dont like this either but not quite so bad as a 2nd Hand sales block attempt )

Dynamix, its been a while since the topic was heavily discussed, there was a little from column A and B on that front - its a pain for me because I have to (and have been trying to) dig up discussions that happened four years ago. So far i've only dug up the following links - but it may at least be a start.

http://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-486148.html

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?200316-New-Games-Workshop-items-banned-from-ebay

 Banicks wrote:
I have purchased my army through methods that allowed me to get it at UK prices. The reason I did this was because I cannot support the practices that GW are doing towards their Australian shop fronts. It may mean the closure of them, but I have a feeling it's heading that way when they're manned by 1 staff member only. And with closure of gaming tables and moving towards gaming clubs, why should I pay 150% more for the privilege of being sold and told in the store. Then told to go elsewhere when I want a game.

This way, if GW stores die in Australia, my outlay was practically 1/3rd of what it would have been paying AU prices. And if necessary I can always shift across to another hobby TT with minimum loss of investment.

The problem with this attitude is it's not helping in the slightest. It's giving you your army cheaper, yes, which is the ultimate goal, but the attitude of 'not supporting GW's practices' doesn't make sense.

Regardless of if you buy it locally from a GW store or an independant store, or order it from an online store or buy it second hand, the model came from GW, and GW got the money for the sale. If it was second hand, and you only buy models second hand, it could be argued it still doesn't affect GW because you never would have bought it new anyway. It's technically a lost sale to them, but you bought it from someone who did buy it from them. If it's from a distributor overseas, GW got the money for the product already from that distributor.

All doing this does is strangle the local sellers. While your store might be a GW, you can still order from Australian non-GW stores. Places like the Combat Company even offer 25% off Australian prices. It's not as cheap as you got it from overseas, but it gives the sale to a local.

Sorry Loki, but when i've invested thousands of dollars previously in a product and I can get the updated rules etc and a model or two to keep my investment legal in gaming terms - I will take the 60% off deals I can get from overseas.

You will find a hard time convincing anyone to throw away such a large investment. As for local resellers, well as a consumer, if i'm pulling a 60% off discount from overseas, I have to look sideways - it then becomes an issue with GW as a supplier not making it possible for locals to offer reasonable discounts.

 Morachi wrote:
Sorry Loki, but when i've invested thousands of dollars previously in a product and I can get the updated rules etc and a model or two to keep my investment legal in gaming terms - I will take the 60% off deals I can get from overseas.

Yes, but where do you play? If you're playing at home, I've got no argument. If you're playing at a GW store, I again have no argument. If you're playing an an independant, who are generally running on tight margins as it is, then that's pretty low. They provide gaming space, you should support them with purchases.

 Morachi wrote:
You will find a hard time convincing anyone to throw away such a large investment. As for local resellers, well as a consumer, if i'm pulling a 60% off discount from overseas, I have to look sideways - it then becomes an issue with GW as a supplier not making it possible for locals to offer reasonable discounts.

That's a fair enough attitude if you play at home. If you're playing at a store, this attitude is basically 'feth you, I'll use your boards until you go broke and move somewhere else'.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Morachi wrote:
Sorry Loki, but when i've invested thousands of dollars previously in a product and I can get the updated rules etc and a model or two to keep my investment legal in gaming terms - I will take the 60% off deals I can get from overseas.

Yes, but where do you play? If you're playing at home, I've got no argument. If you're playing at a GW store, I again have no argument. If you're playing an an independant, who are generally running on tight margins as it is, then that's pretty low. They provide gaming space, you should support them with purchases.

 Morachi wrote:
You will find a hard time convincing anyone to throw away such a large investment. As for local resellers, well as a consumer, if i'm pulling a 60% off discount from overseas, I have to look sideways - it then becomes an issue with GW as a supplier not making it possible for locals to offer reasonable discounts.

That's a fair enough attitude if you play at home. If you're playing at a store, this attitude is basically 'feth you, I'll use your boards until you go broke and move somewhere else'.

A hobby store generally has other goods that I buy - doesn't mean I have to buy GW kit to support the store. Most stores I used to play in stopped carrying the product, and oddly enough one NEVER carried GW goods and let us use his own property to play games (8 tables of space) - all he asked was that we throw down two dollars for the day and buy soft drinks from his bar fridge... at $1 each.

You will find very few people playing in a GW store for the reasons mentioned earlier. People will generally find a way to support their local store, even if that means they aren't buying GW products there. Most store owners are well aware of what GW is up to.

 Morachi wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Morachi wrote:
Sorry Loki, but when i've invested thousands of dollars previously in a product and I can get the updated rules etc and a model or two to keep my investment legal in gaming terms - I will take the 60% off deals I can get from overseas.

Yes, but where do you play? If you're playing at home, I've got no argument. If you're playing at a GW store, I again have no argument. If you're playing an an independant, who are generally running on tight margins as it is, then that's pretty low. They provide gaming space, you should support them with purchases.

 Morachi wrote:
You will find a hard time convincing anyone to throw away such a large investment. As for local resellers, well as a consumer, if i'm pulling a 60% off discount from overseas, I have to look sideways - it then becomes an issue with GW as a supplier not making it possible for locals to offer reasonable discounts.

That's a fair enough attitude if you play at home. If you're playing at a store, this attitude is basically 'feth you, I'll use your boards until you go broke and move somewhere else'.

A hobby store generally has other goods that I buy - doesn't mean I have to buy GW kit to support the store. Most stores I used to play in stopped carrying the product, and oddly enough one NEVER carried GW goods and let us use his own property to play games (8 tables of space) - all he asked was that we throw down two dollars for the day and buy soft drinks from his bar fridge... at $1 each.

You will find very few people playing in a GW store for the reasons mentioned earlier. People will generally find a way to support their local store, even if that means they aren't buying GW products there. Most store owners are well aware of what GW is up to.

Fair enough. It's generally hard to interperate posts that simply say 'I buy my GW stuff from overseas' as it differs from person to person. If your store owner knows and understands, and you support it with other significant sales, cool. I have read from plenty of people who do none of that, and basically use stores as a free table on Saturdays.

I've generally found the best way to support independants is through non-GW purchases anyway. If they carry enough stuff, there's ways to get your dollars worth without venturing into the GW side of the store. However, as I said, I support pay where you play - you're obviously doing that outside of GW products.

My response was to Banicks who basically wanted to 'stick it to GW'. If you're gaming at a local independant, and all you play are GW games, 'sticking it to GW' tends to hurt the independant more than GW.

Indeed, its rough for them given most of the sales volume used to come from GW. Luckily other systems are picking up nowadays though. Alot of the guys in my former gaming circle supported the local community (and still continue to - even through national podcasts).

I'm just wondering to myself when GW will tell Aus retailers they can't show photos of GW product online, or have carts - like the US. Perhaps they don't bother because the sales figures don't suggest anyone is buying here anyway.

PS: Love your Forge World sig... more tournaments are finally allowing the use of those models.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Morachi wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Morachi wrote:
Sorry Loki, but when i've invested thousands of dollars previously in a product and I can get the updated rules etc and a model or two to keep my investment legal in gaming terms - I will take the 60% off deals I can get from overseas.

Yes, but where do you play? If you're playing at home, I've got no argument. If you're playing at a GW store, I again have no argument. If you're playing an an independant, who are generally running on tight margins as it is, then that's pretty low. They provide gaming space, you should support them with purchases.

 Morachi wrote:
You will find a hard time convincing anyone to throw away such a large investment. As for local resellers, well as a consumer, if i'm pulling a 60% off discount from overseas, I have to look sideways - it then becomes an issue with GW as a supplier not making it possible for locals to offer reasonable discounts.

That's a fair enough attitude if you play at home. If you're playing at a store, this attitude is basically 'feth you, I'll use your boards until you go broke and move somewhere else'.

A hobby store generally has other goods that I buy - doesn't mean I have to buy GW kit to support the store. Most stores I used to play in stopped carrying the product, and oddly enough one NEVER carried GW goods and let us use his own property to play games (8 tables of space) - all he asked was that we throw down two dollars for the day and buy soft drinks from his bar fridge... at $1 each.

You will find very few people playing in a GW store for the reasons mentioned earlier. People will generally find a way to support their local store, even if that means they aren't buying GW products there. Most store owners are well aware of what GW is up to.

Fair enough. It's generally hard to interperate posts that simply say 'I buy my GW stuff from overseas' as it differs from person to person. If your store owner knows and understands, and you support it with other significant sales, cool. I have read from plenty of people who do none of that, and basically use stores as a free table on Saturdays.

I've generally found the best way to support independants is through non-GW purchases anyway. If they carry enough stuff, there's ways to get your dollars worth without venturing into the GW side of the store. However, as I said, I support pay where you play - you're obviously doing that outside of GW products.

My response was to Banicks who basically wanted to 'stick it to GW'. If you're gaming at a local independant, and all you play are GW games, 'sticking it to GW' tends to hurt the independant more than GW.

Oh I understand what you're saying believe me.

I was of two minds about it because I am a firm believer in paying a bit more to support local business.

But is a bit more 150%? There is no justification whatsoever to say that a model I pay for is worth 150% more than what someone in the UK pays. Yes, my money still goes to GW, but a lot less of it.

I'm certainly not going to be one of the new people who are forced into supporting the GW practices of 1 staff member and 150% increase in costs at a shop front. Why should I as a new comer, or even a veteran have to support that practice which will only reinforce the idea that Australian hobbyists will continue to pay that much?

Whether it is liked or not, the hobby within GW stores is apparently slowly dying. The downsize of stores is a big indicator, so whether I purchased in store or not, I have a feeling they are heading for closure regardless. Hence why I said I would rather allow that to happen, and look towards hobby clubs as opposed to supporting the practices of GW in store. Particularly if they're aiming to become nothing more than a shop front to the sell the hobby.

At the end of the day it is a wake up call to GW, and their staff need to start communicating that people are obtaining cheaper armies, so they need to look long and hard at their business model. If they can lower the prices, "They will come" and open a larger segment in the Australian hobby market - that I doubt anyone will disagree. If they truely are citing that the running costs of the shop fronts are not maintaining a profit, then stop beating about the bush and start closing them down. But then the trade agreement will go to third party hobby stores if they want to continue selling in Australia - or online. And why would any Australian continue to support the prices online or through third party retailers if it remained the same after closure?

It's one of three things, they either lower the prices, move out of the market completely or continue to run at a loss (apparently). I'm sure big news will be coming for EOFY GW.

 Morachi wrote:
Dynamix, its been a while since the topic was heavily discussed, there was a little from column A and B on that front - its a pain for me because I have to (and have been trying to) dig up discussions that happened four years ago. So far i've only dug up the following links - but it may at least be a start.

http://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-486148.html

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?200316-New-Games-Workshop-items-banned-from-ebay

Thanks for the above Links

Looks like my potential outrage would be misplaced - from those threads as I understand it seems to be just an attempt at restriction on Traders selling new GW product on E-Bay by GW using the method of stopping wholesale sales to those Traders who sell on E-Bay and Auction sites

From the looks of it this was misconstrued to be all sales of GW product - maybe a ' Myth ' emerged that this extends to S/H sales .

 Dynamix wrote:

 Morachi wrote:
Dynamix, its been a while since the topic was heavily discussed, there was a little from column A and B on that front - its a pain for me because I have to (and have been trying to) dig up discussions that happened four years ago. So far i've only dug up the following links - but it may at least be a start.

http://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-486148.html

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?200316-New-Games-Workshop-items-banned-from-ebay

Thanks for the above Links

Looks like my potential outrage would be misplaced - from those threads as I understand it seems to be just an attempt at restriction on Traders selling new GW product on E-Bay by GW using the method of stopping wholesale sales to those Traders who sell on E-Bay and Auction sites

From the looks of it this was misconstrued to be all sales of GW product - maybe a ' Myth ' emerged that this extends to S/H sales .

The idea of a manufacturer attempting to restrict anyone selling new product, as long as its been obtained legitimately, is frankly laughable. Remember, every new kit sold will make GW money regardless of who sells it and who it is sold to. Trying to force people to buy from them at full RRP is just greed at this point.