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Then you're talking about a different Rule of Cool to everyone else, since the common usage for that term is that otherwise potentially problematic conversions are made more acceptable the more cool they are.

What I mean is that collecting an entire army of the same, 2nd edition model does go against the rule of cool. (BTW I do like 3rd ed marines better than the current ones.)

 Timmy149 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Timmy149 wrote:
The usage of older models is not MFA. sourcing an army of them is not MFA either, although it goes against the rule of cool.

That really depends on whether or not you find older models cool...

By rule of cool I refer to having a legit 40k army. Not one designed to be one that gets around rules and does some MFA stuff.

Not sure if attempting to troll.....

First you say having a whole army older models or even part of one is not MFA but then turn around and say that doing it can do some MFA stuff?

Insaniak pretty much has it there, it depends on what you want to have as your models. It's irrelevant to the rules if they are sourced from older editions.

(Really sorry if this has been raised already but...)

Lie the ADL 'flat' rather than 'upright'. Align it so that the stock unmodified ADL is deeper then it is tall. Ensure all segments are in base contact with one another.

Job Done.

Gretchins/Gants etc. should now be able to shoot/see/be shot at fine.

 Timmy149 wrote:
What I mean is that collecting an entire army of the same, 2nd edition model does go against the rule of cool. (BTW I do like 3rd ed marines better than the current ones.)

Wait, I'm confused here, are you saying that you think people are collecting like 200 copies of a 2nd edition SM and saying "counts as" to everything? That's kind of what I'm reading here, but it could just be getting lost in translation. My original point was simply that anger over utilization of models from older generations (now obviously I'm not saying that 100% of models are perfectly fine, obviously there's extreme examples, most found within the Orks >.> ) is probably one of the worst sentiments I've ever read on any forum for this game. Ever. The entire point of the game is to enjoy playing your toy soldiers against other toy soldiers. If someone falls out of the hobby for a while and then comes back, why should they have have to re-invest in order to play? (Obviously, again aside from books and the like.) Counts as and such is something I never really care about, but I could see others having problems with. Personally I love the older models, it's a lot of fun playing against them, seeing how they made them before I started.

Also, I think you don't understand what the "rule of cool" is. If a player collects an entire 1st or 2nd edition army and then flavors it appropriately, then that's most absolutely rule of cool. Seeing things like the Luna Wolves on the table shows a true love for this hobby, and really shows off what is possible to be done within this game. Rule of cool is simply, you did something so awesome, that it would hurt them more to deny that thing it's time on the table than it would to let you field it.

Back on-topic, feel free to post your ideas/plans for your upcoming Orkish dakka line. >.>

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. I have played against a guard army which was all of the same model with the, This guy has a Meltagun, this one a Powerfist and this one has two CCW. Remember that. I raged so badly


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, to clarify I mean an army of 200 identical guardsmen.


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Also I know the rule of cool, I just mean an army of clones ain't cool. I do like 1st/2nd ed models, they are waaaay cooler than some other GW stuff

 Timmy149 wrote:
What I mean is that collecting an entire army of the same, 2nd edition model does go against the rule of cool. (BTW I do like 3rd ed marines better than the current ones.)

Er... 3rd Ed marines are the current ones...

Razerous wrote:
(Really sorry if this has been raised already but...)

Lie the ADL 'flat' rather than 'upright'. Align it so that the stock unmodified ADL is deeper then it is tall. Ensure all segments are in base contact with one another.

Job Done.

Gretchins/Gants etc. should now be able to shoot/see/be shot at fine.

And I will lie my lootas flat so they can not be seen and then stand them up when I want to fire and lie them back down to be 100% obstructed again.

The rulebook doesn't say I can't!

Gravel Genestealers!

nkelsch wrote:

Razerous wrote:
(Really sorry if this has been raised already but...)

Lie the ADL 'flat' rather than 'upright'. Align it so that the stock unmodified ADL is deeper then it is tall. Ensure all segments are in base contact with one another.

Job Done.

Gretchins/Gants etc. should now be able to shoot/see/be shot at fine.

And I will lie my lootas flat so they can not be seen and then stand them up when I want to fire and lie them back down to be 100% obstructed again.

The rulebook doesn't say I can't!

Gravel Genestealers!

A vehicle has a front/side/back facing. A miniature has a model & a base. Finally, what I'm proposing isn't to 'position-for-advantage', as your suggesting with lootas. The same logic would mean your lootas are (wobbly) placed flat for the entire game.

An ADL is not a vehicle.

Exactly. Nor does it have a base.

Razerous wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

Razerous wrote:
(Really sorry if this has been raised already but...)

Lie the ADL 'flat' rather than 'upright'. Align it so that the stock unmodified ADL is deeper then it is tall. Ensure all segments are in base contact with one another.

Job Done.

Gretchins/Gants etc. should now be able to shoot/see/be shot at fine.

And I will lie my lootas flat so they can not be seen and then stand them up when I want to fire and lie them back down to be 100% obstructed again.

The rulebook doesn't say I can't!

Gravel Genestealers!

A vehicle has a front/side/back facing. A miniature has a model & a base. Finally, what I'm proposing isn't to 'position-for-advantage', as your suggesting with lootas. The same logic would mean your lootas are (wobbly) placed flat for the entire game.

Show the rule which says I can't reposition my models however I want on whatever facing or side of the model I want?

If you can place the ADL however you wish because no rule says you can't, then I can literally do whatever I want because no rule says I can't.

It is implied vehicles models must be placed 'reasonably correct' on the table. ADL falls under that same implied functionality. If you say a model must be on its base, and a vehicle must be upright, a fortification can be upsidedown or on its side. Either all may be or none may be because "the rules don't say I can't!" allows literally everything to work.

 Timmy149 wrote:
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. I have played against a guard army which was all of the same model with the, This guy has a Meltagun, this one a Powerfist and this one has two CCW. Remember that. I raged so badly


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, to clarify I mean an army of 200 identical guardsmen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I know the rule of cool, I just mean an army of clones ain't cool. I do like 1st/2nd ed models, they are waaaay cooler than some other GW stuff

Well in that case you're obviously right, and you can simply cite WYSIWYG as to their attempts at telling you what each has. I usually don't care too much about "counts as" stuff, but there's limits, you can't just take an entire army of replica guys and say this one has this this one has that. If you've got a close approximation but it's not 100% perfect I'll always let it slide, but I don't think I'd play very many games against the guy that you played against, heh.

So from what I can work out, there are a few points

-Modifying a stock ADL would be MFA
-scratch-building an orky ADL is not MFA

 Timmy149 wrote:
So from what I can work out, there are a few points

-Modifying a stock ADL would be MFA
-scratch-building an orky ADL is not MFA

With one addendum.

-scratch-building an orky ADL is not MFA as long as it interacts with the game in the same manner as the stock ADL.

Yep, however the Rule of Cool usually supersedes MFA with all but the most rigorous TO staff. At a full on GT or something you can expect to never be allowed to do this, but your average TO seeing a well built Orky ADL will usually allow you to do things like shoot out of it for your grots.

from the point of view of most people here, giving a tactical squad sergeant a powerfist is MFA (as it doesnt come in the box, and clearly gives your model an advantage).

a bit of an exaggeration but for what its worth, just spotted this on warhammer worlds facebook page and wondered how the guys here would take playing against it (personally i think its a damned cool idea )

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=590827747603376&set=a.590826644270153.1073741846.212614545424700&type=1&theater

I'd be fine playing against it. It gives them hardly any cover at all...

mrspadge wrote:
from the point of view of most people here, giving a tactical squad sergeant a powerfist is MFA (as it doesnt come in the box, and clearly gives your model an advantage).

a bit of an exaggeration but for what its worth, just spotted this on warhammer worlds facebook page and wondered how the guys here would take playing against it (personally i think its a damned cool idea )

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=590827747603376&set=a.590826644270153.1073741846.212614545424700&type=1&theater

I'd play against it but - and here's the important thing that a lot of people are missing - as long as he doesn't claim an advantage from the different construction it doesn't matter. The OP in this thread was literally saying he wanted to do it to gain an advantage. Note the difference?

mrspadge wrote:
from the point of view of most people here, giving a tactical squad sergeant a powerfist is MFA (as it doesnt come in the box, and clearly gives your model an advantage).

That is not the point of view of anywhere near 'most' of the people on this board.

Meanwhile, this topic seems to have pretty much run its course, so I think it's time to give it a rest.