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Cool, that's your right. I would urge you to revisit their back-catalogue though, even the early stuff. Hell, especially the early stuff!
Based on personal opinion. Rating a band or not rating a band is opinion.
Not... Really. You can't just wave something away like that by saying it's 'opinion'. There is such a thing as inter-subjectivity, and you're basically dismissing a vast weight of of critical academic analysis surrounding just what it was that made the Fab Four (or Elvis, or Hendrix etc.) so special. Not all opinions are equal.
This entire thread is based on opinion - I don't really see that there is a way to quantify how a bands rating is generated, when music is enjoyed solely on the premise of 'do I like what I'm hearing?'
Well, you can quantify it. It's remarkably easy to do. The raw numbers speak for themselves. It's harder to qualify it, but that doesn't mean such qualitative analysis is mere 'opinion'. There has been exceptionally detailed musicological analysis performed on the Beatles, moreso than any other popular music act. They were exceptionally clever musicians and producers. You should read Revolution in the Head.
'The beatles are overrated' as a statement is a direct reaction to people telling me they are the single best band in the history of creation (not you, people I've met previously)
Which speaks more to your personality than the Beatles' quality, no offense. Jesus, I hardly ever say that!
If everybody I tend to speak to states categorically that 'they were the best band ever' and I don't like them then doesn't that automatically mean I think they are being over rated?
You may think that, but it doesn't make it a fact, not in a general sense.
Personally I think Rossini did more for music by inventing the crescendo (unless it was Mosca, in that case Mosca did more) - but again, thats only my opinion.
Really? Are you just being pretentious there?
The Beatles invented the pop album as we currently understand it. I could live without the crescendo.
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dæl wrote: The Beatles transcended their boy band stage and became one of the greatest bands ever, there is a reason that revolver is often cited as one of the best albums ever alongside the queen is dead and ok computer. The Beatles weren't perfect, I'm not a fan of the gushy, lovey-dovey McCartney stuff (although Eleanor Rigby is quite brilliant), but the band made so many classic albums which have stood the test of time.
The Sex Pistols are massively overrated, when you compare them to the Clash they seem like schoolchildren playing at being musicians.
Hey look! We agree on something! Clash all the way.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/12 15:58:26
PredaKhaine wrote: Based on personal opinion. Rating a band or not rating a band is opinion. This entire thread is based on opinion - I don't really see that there is a way to quantify how a bands rating is generated, when music is enjoyed solely on the premise of 'do I like what I'm hearing?'
Maybe for casual music listeners it is, but critics (and music snobs) take more things into consideration such as composition, innovation, uniqueness, historical significance, influence, cultural significance, aesthetics, message, etc.
How do you gauge composition? What would be the criteria?
I'm genouinely interested
Although (imo), Innovation in music (bar inventing new sounds/instruments) is a bit of a bust as anything anyone's written will probably have been done before, we just might not have heard it.
What music is unique?
Honestly I have no formal music knowledge I just read a lot of Wikipedia articles, album reviews and listen to new stuff on YouTube so I might be talking out of my ass, but when I refer to composition I mean what parts the song and/or album is made up of as a whole and how it works
together, innovation is taking older ideas and altering them or adding more things to it. Also maybe I should have used distinct instead of unique.
Apparently, I'm really supposed to like Death Cab for Cuties or something. Meh.
Also, the most overated band/musician is either Rush or AC/DC, for the same reasons. Their instrumentals are actually very good, but every song is completely RUINED by their horrible respective lead vocalists.
dæl wrote: The Beatles transcended their boy band stage and became one of the greatest bands ever, there is a reason that revolver is often cited as one of the best albums ever alongside the queen is dead and ok computer. The Beatles weren't perfect, I'm not a fan of the gushy, lovey-dovey McCartney stuff (although Eleanor Rigby is quite brilliant), but the band made so many classic albums which have stood the test of time.
The Sex Pistols are massively overrated, when you compare them to the Clash they seem like schoolchildren playing at being musicians.
Hey look! We agree on something! Clash all the way.
Yeah I like the Clash more than the Sex Pistols as well "London Calling" was an incredibly ambitious album (as well as having a real infectious quality to it) for Punk Rock, but still the Sex Pistols are kind of a big deal in music history and "Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols" is
a classic.
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Ensis Ferrae wrote: For actual bands, I think Metallica, while having a ton of talent, I think they are over-rated, especially since I find it rather ironic their whole involvement with the Napster thing, when they started out as a cover band (and their earliest cover works, they really didn't acknowledge that they were covering aside from the obligatory stuff on the back of an album that no one reads anyway).
I don't know about that, Metallica was the first American Thrash Metal band, I mean technically Venom is the first Thrash Metal band but nobody has heard of them (Kill 'Em All was the Thrash Metal album everybody bought) and they didn't have much technical ability which is important to
Thrash Metal (and Heavy Metal in general). Mind you I would say the first three Metallica albums are great Thrash Metal records after that Metallica stops being relevant for me, also they originally wanted to call there first album "Metal Up Your Ass" with a cover of a toilet and dagger sticking out
of it but thankfully Megaforce Records decided against as it's a fething stupid idea .
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/12 21:04:48
Most overrated? I'm suprised nobody has mentioned Lady Gaga. Just go to youtube and search for "gaga overlay" and you'll see how much stuff she's stolen from other, better artists. Heck, she's not even really an artist. If it weren't for all the attention wh@%!ng she's done nobody would have ever heard of her.
Worst? Hard to say. I guess Cher given that she's used autotune as a crutch longer than anyone else.
Not even trolling. Hey Jude is their only truly good song, and a few other catchy ones like "back in the USSR" and "Paperback Writer". The rest just fall flat to me. This is not a troll, I honestly think they are the most overrated band of time.
I'm going to disagree with you. The Beatles' music not only endures but still reverberates through the culture. The movie Across the Universe is amazing and serves as the latest example that the Beatles were certainly not overrated. /rant
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/04/12 19:36:56
NEWS: There's a new nomination for both "Overrated" and "Worst". That's the Korean rapper (if you want to call him that) PSY who just released a new single called "Gentleman". After hearing it, the phrase "burn it with fire" seems too little, too late. Man, I can't believe people buy this guy's stuff.
Breotan wrote:Most overrated? I'm suprised nobody has mentioned Lady Gaga. Just go to youtube and search for "gaga overlay" and you'll see how much stuff she's stolen from other, better artists. Heck, she's not even really an artist. If it weren't for all the attention wh@%!ng she's done nobody would have ever heard of her.
If you've seen her stuff before she went all... Gaga, you'd be able to understand that, at the very least, she is actually a fairly capable musician. I don't like her music, and I find her entire image to just be derivative of Bowie, Madonna, and the rest of the glam rock era, but despite the fact that she is overrated for what she does, she is still a talented individual, which is more than can be said for quite a few acts these days.
I'm going to disagree with you. The Beatles' music not only endures but still reverberates through the culture. The movie Across the Universe is amazing and serves as the latest example that the Beatles were certainly not overrated. /rant
Good god, that was mediocre at the very best. As someone who has considerable troubles sleeping, that movie made me drowsy. Outside of being setup entirely to display a few okay Beatles' covers, there's nothing mentionable or interesting about the movie.
Breotan wrote:NEWS: There's a new nomination for both "Overrated" and "Worst". That's the Korean rapper (if you want to call him that) PSY who just released a new single called "Gentleman". After hearing it, the phrase "burn it with fire" seems too little, too late. Man, I can't believe people buy this guy's stuff.
Which is funny, when you consider that his breakout hit was a satire of pop-idol worshiping culture. The fact that he has such a popular follow-up has got to be an instance of him laughing at us this time around, rather than just laughing with us.
Also, what the heck is up with every joining the Beatles bashing committee? DARN KIDS I HATED ON BEATLES BEFORE IT WAS COOL *shakes fist*
Actually i ninjad you on the Beatle bashing first
To continue on the Beatles bashing, when EVERYONE and their damn dog makes them out to be the best thing since sliced bread and you listen to them generally if your first thoughts are "why am I wasting my time with this" then it's and overrated band, that said even with a band I think is overrated I will acknowledge that the Beatles were talented in the fact that they wrote most of their music, but other than that they have maybe two or so songs that I like.
I don't know about that, Metallica was the first American Thrash Metal band, I mean technically Venom is the first Thrash Metal band but nobody has heard of them (Kill 'Em All was the Thrash Metal album everybody bought) and they didn't have much technical ability which is important to
Thrash Metal (and Heavy Metal in general). Mind you I would say the first three Metallica albums are great Thrash Metal records after that Metallica stops being relevant for me, also they originally wanted to call there first album Metal Up Your Ass with a cover of a toilet and dagger sticking out
of it but thankfully Megaforce Records decided against as it's a fething stupid idea .
For the record, I fething love Metallica in all albums... (including their cover, ie, Turn the Page, Blitzkrieg, Astronomy, Am I Evil?...etc... fething awesome).
I have that T-shirt by the way still...
Most overrated: Nickelback
Worst Band: how do we rate this as we'll never hear a "worst band"...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/12 21:00:41
Also, what the heck is up with every joining the Beatles bashing committee? DARN KIDS I HATED ON BEATLES BEFORE IT WAS COOL *shakes fist*
Actually i ninjad you on the Beatle bashing first
To continue on the Beatles bashing, when EVERYONE and their damn dog makes them out to be the best thing since sliced bread and you listen to them generally if your first thoughts are "why am I wasting my time with this" then it's and overrated band, that said even with a band I think is overrated I will acknowledge that the Beatles were talented in the fact that they wrote most of their music, but other than that they have maybe two or so songs that I like.
Well something can be the best but still not be your favourite like the Beatles are one of the best rock groups out there (and I love them) but I still usually prefer listening to the Stooges or the Ramones (which are also both great bands as well).
Automatically Appended Next Post: @ Whembly I'm not sure you can call Nickelback overrated as there albums almost always get mediocre reviews and seem to be disliked by mainstream audience members, but that doesn't explain how they still have a career.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also there's nothing wrong with liking Metallica Whembly they did pretty much started Thrash Metal so they were taking Heavy Metal music in a new direction, nothing up to 1983's Heavy Metal music had sounded as intense as they did.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/04/12 21:12:56
Or, more likely, this: (oh jebus, yes, this really was the most terrible thing ever created ah my ears, urgh)
Overrated?
Fething Morrisey, not the Smiths of yesteryear, but the ridiculous reverence this old tart is treated with. His daft opinions lauded as actually relevant (and half the stuff he proclaims is for attention it seems), his songs banal and tired and ridiculously precocious coming as they now do from an old man. At least the Stones know they are pantomime, this bastard still struts about thinking he's the bee's knees and he's long since become the knobbly knees. See him now in his suit, like a very very bad Brian Ferry impersonator.
Of course i always feel uncomfortable/fraudulent saying music is bad or overrated but i do have my opinions:
Overrated: Led Zepellin, Rage Against the Machine, Florence and the Machine, Coldplay(although saying this is a bit of a dead horse really), The XX, Dream theatre and the Who.
Worst: Probably Kiss or Guns n' Roses. Nickleback was a good shout from someone earlier.
As has been firmly established saying the Beatles are overrated is just blatant Contrarianism.
Mary Sue wrote: Perkustin is even more awesome than me!
I don't know much about Grunge but I'm pretty sure Nevermind was well received critically, also showed that Grunge and Alternative music in general could be commercially viable and killed Glam Metal for good.
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Perkustin wrote: As has been firmly established saying the Beatles are overrated is just blatant Contrarianism.
Agreed, same with people who say Led Zeppelin is overrated I can understand not liking Led Zeppelin's style but they are really good at what they do.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/04/12 22:00:36
I don't know much about Grunge but I'm pretty sure Nevermind was well received critically, also showed that Grunge and Alternative music in general could be commercially viable and killed Glam Metal for good.
Didn't kill Guns n' Roses well enough for me . I don't really like Nirvana but Kurt Cobain has a fantastic voice, one of the best in 'Guitar music' IMO.
EDIT: I find Led Zep's songs to be boring and the Vocalist's whining overly indulgent and aping African American soul in an utterly cringeworthy fashion. These are all subjective reasons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/12 22:04:11
Mary Sue wrote: Perkustin is even more awesome than me!
I don't know much about Grunge but I'm pretty sure Nevermind was well received critically, also showed that Grunge and Alternative music in general could be commercially viable and killed Glam Metal for good.
Didn't kill Guns n' Roses well enough for me . I don't really like Nirvana but Kurt Cobain has a fantastic voice, one of the best in 'Guitar music' IMO.
EDIT: I find Led Zep's songs to be boring and the Vocalist's whining overly indulgent and aping African American soul in an utterly cringeworthy fashion. These are all subjective reasons.
That might be a problem with disliking Heavy Metal music in general as that's pretty much the blue print for late 60's to mid 70's Heavy Metal, also the Who is brilliant there style has traveled across so many genres proto-punk, hard rock, heavy metal, punk rock, mod revival, britpop, etc.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @ Whembly I'm not sure you can call Nickelback overrated as there albums almost always get mediocre reviews and seem to be disliked by mainstream audience members, but that doesn't explain how they still have a career.
Being overrated doesn't mean that they're not successful. In fact, I'd go to a Nickelback concerts as I've heard that they're a much better band live than on radio. I feel the same way with Godsmack too... live, they're just fething phenomenal.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also there's nothing wrong with liking Metallica Whembly they did pretty much started Thrash Metal so they were taking Heavy Metal music in a new direction, nothing up to 1983's Heavy Metal music had sounded as intense as they did.
Wasn't picking on you... just expressing that I'm a Metal Head...
You're probably right, although i do like some metal but yeah almost all those genres have little appeal to me. Bands like Joy division and Killing Joke are alright imo though and iirc they are some sort of 'punk'. Britpop is pretty good, although i have always liked Popular music from the 80's onward.
EDIT: Tool are actually pretty overrated, but only a little they still have some fantastic songs. I was a fan in my teens so this is 50/50 improved musical appreciation/rebellion against my teenage proclivities, i just hate all the fuss that is made about the drummer and the singer (really like Puscifer though), also the guitar tone is watery-weak. The Bass is the saving grace for me. The Naivety and teenage sentiment expressed in many of their songs gets pretty jarring as well, as well as some of the more wankey lyrics.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/04/12 22:30:01
Mary Sue wrote: Perkustin is even more awesome than me!
EDIT: Tool are actually pretty overrated, but only a little they still have some fantastic songs. I was a fan in my teens so this is 50/50 improved musical appreciation/rebellion against my teenage proclivities, i just hate all the fuss that is made about the drummer and the singer (really like Puscifer though), also the guitar tone is watery-weak. The Bass is the saving grace for me. The Naivety and teenage sentiment expressed in many of their songs gets pretty jarring as well, as well as some of the more wankey lyrics.
Eh... I kinda disagree that Tool is overrated in that they're one of the few bands that actually sounds better the more you listen them...
Take Lateralus for example... when it came out, I was "meh" to it... now (after all these years), I think it's one of their best songs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/12 22:38:34
I really dislike the Naivety of Aenema's lyrics and the weak guitar tone/distortion in Lateralus, also imo alot of the instrumentals and transitions in that album miss the mark. My favourite Tool Song though, oddly, is 'Triad', without MJK's often indulgent vocals and the drums far more stripped back, or at least less bandstanding, you can really see what they were going for imo. 'Reflection', 'The Patient', a couple fo the 10,000 days tracks and 'Forty six and two' are flawed gems that i often still listen to. Triad and Rosetta stoned (another song i enjoy immensly but for less clear reasons) are songs that i listen to pretty frequently.
I am not really an album person btw.
Mary Sue wrote: Perkustin is even more awesome than me!
Breotan wrote:I'm going to disagree with you. The Beatles' music not only endures but still reverberates through the culture. The movie Across the Universe is amazing and serves as the latest example that the Beatles were certainly not overrated. /rant
Good god, that was mediocre at the very best. As someone who has considerable troubles sleeping, that movie made me drowsy. Outside of being setup entirely to display a few okay Beatles' covers, there's nothing mentionable or interesting about the movie.
Breotan wrote:NEWS: There's a new nomination for both "Overrated" and "Worst". That's the Korean rapper (if you want to call him that) PSY who just released a new single called "Gentleman". After hearing it, the phrase "burn it with fire" seems too little, too late. Man, I can't believe people buy this guy's stuff.
Which is funny, when you consider that his breakout hit was a satire of pop-idol worshiping culture. The fact that he has such a popular follow-up has got to be an instance of him laughing at us this time around, rather than just laughing with us.
Thought I'd just weigh in on a few of the different side-discussions taking place:
I've always preferred Free to Led Zep, actually. Definitely worth a look if you've never heard them before and you like 70s hard rock. Start with Fire and Water. Zep are a great band, but in my opinion they peaked with Led Zep II, their material maintaining a consistent downward trend in terms of quality thereafter. That IS just a matter of taste on my part and I will concede there are plenty of absolute gems in their post-II catalogue.
Nirvana? Loved 'em when I was 15, but I've always been more of a Soundgarden/Alice in Chains grunger than a Nirvana/Mudhoney/Sonic Youth* one.
It is perfectly acceptable to like Metallica, the earlier the album the better. I do still love ...And Justice For All, mind.
The Sex Pistols were more important to the aesthetic of punk, the Clash were the better band.
Tool are neither under or overrated. They are rated just about right.
The world is divided into two types of music fan - those that get the Beatles and those that don't get them yet. The same also true of Bob Dylan, though to a lesser extent.
Morrissey is indeed a prat. The Smiths are class though.
Just my 2p.
*Yes, yes. I know they're not strictly grunge, but you catch my drift.
Say what you want, I still don't like the Beatles, and none of you limey brits can change that
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
You'll get it one day, and when you do, you'll thank me.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
kronk wrote: Apparently, I'm really supposed to like Death Cab for Cuties or something. Meh.
Also, the most overated band/musician is either Rush or AC/DC, for the same reasons. Their instrumentals are actually very good, but every song is completely RUINED by their horrible respective lead vocalists.
What's not to like? It has John Lennon singing passages of the Tibetan Book of the Dead in a modal melody through a rotating Leslie speaker, on top of (IIRC) the first drum-loop ever used in pop, laughter, an orchestra and a piano recorded on to reel-to-reel tape and manipulated at different speeds in real time like a sort of tape chamber ensemble, a tanpura, and backwards guitar. It's heavenly.
I still prefer 'Strawberry Fields...', but only just. Don't get started on that song though. I could rhapsodise over it for ever.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/13 01:36:41
Albatross wrote:What's not to like? It has John Lennon singing
Ah, here's your problem.
I'll stop now I promise.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
