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The argument stems from all the various members of PNAC that were also members of the Bush Administration, adhered to democratic peace theory*, and identified the Middle East as a threat to American security. The point being that said members (the British just sort of got roped in) weren't necessarily concerned about the reality of Iraqi WMDs, as Iraq and the rest of the Middle East were viewed as a generic threat that needed to be addressed.
*Which many of them interpreted as the "American Peace".
I thought that the more fundamental reason why we invaded Iraq was to "support" the legitimately of the UN. Remember, Iraq was thumbing their nose against the UN inspectors...
Had we not invaded Iraq based on those grounds, the UN would be rendered toothless on any future resolutions.
However, your larger point do stand in that... it's an easy way to rationalize with the US population by arguing for "the spread of freedom".
Ratbarf wrote: I thought it came about because of the thought that it is/was one of America's founding beliefs that they were there to bring Freedom to world. Either by shining example or by the point of the sword. Now it hasn't exactly panned out that way, but it did play a not insignificant role in the political justification of their Western expansion.
Yeah, my memory of what the founding fathers believed on that point is hazy, but I seem to recall isolationism, specifically from George Washington's final speech as president.
I thought that the more fundamental reason why we invaded Iraq was to "support" the legitimately of the UN. Remember, Iraq was thumbing their nose against the UN inspectors...
I can't believe, that even whembly of all people, would suggest that.
Just so dumb.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
On a side note I actually looked into the uses of tinfoil hats. It turns out they are intended to stop mind control via creating a faraday cage around the brain so microwaves (which can be used to cause auditory hallucinations and alter the mood of the target to be very paranoid and forlorn) cannot enter the brain and affect it. However, the tinfoil hats used are both somewhat too thin to actually accomplish this goal in a meaningful way, and for them to work at peak efficiency one would need both a layer of tinfoil going through one's neck, in addition to having a full face plate.
So it turns out that if one actually wants to interrupt microwaves or thetawaves that may be altering one's mind, one should actually invest in a full suit of plate armour or chainmail. An act which I fully encourage and endorse.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/15 07:14:55
I can see visions of the future where in an age of emp and microwave tech people go back to belting each other with swords in suits of chainmail. Awesome.
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
Ratbarf wrote: I think they went into Afghanistan for freedom, or at least that is what I've been told. They also went into South Ossetia and then Georgia pretty much because freedom and friendly neighbours.
Thats incredibly wrong. They invaded to support a friendly regime that was falling.
Whoever told you that is a bald faced liar or an idiot.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Almost none of them involved spice production however.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Frazzled wrote: Almost none of them involved spice production however.
We need to free the Kessel slaves! Release the hounds my good man, for Liberty and Freedom!!!
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
I think it applies as the invasion was complete and a counter-invasion was required.
D-Day is another example of a necessary invasion.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
There is however a difference between invading because you or your friends were attacked and invading simply because you feel the current government is so morally repugnant that their very presence must be eradicated from the earth.
Ratbarf wrote: There is however a difference between invading because you or your friends were attacked and invading simply because you feel the current government is so morally repugnant that their very presence must be eradicated from the earth.
Do you feel one is legitimate and the other is not or something?
One is more legitimate than the other when talking about invading for the purpose of Freedom. Seeing as most nations would counter-invade any part of their territory if it were invaded regardless of whether or not that action would be the best for its people means that in those cases it can be regarded as having equal or greater causes then the simple cause of freedom.
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~4100
~1660
