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CCS w/lascannon, camo cloaks, vox, and astropath 125pts

10x vets w/ lascannon, 3x sniper rifles, forward sentries, and vox 140pts
10x vets w/ 3x melta guns

Vendetta. 130pts
Vendetta. 130pts
Vendetta. 130pts

Leman Russ Executioner w/ lascannon 205pts
Leman Russ Executioner w/ lascannon 205pts


Commander w/ early warning override, onegar gauntlet, command and control node, puretide chip, multi sensor suite, and iridium armour 190pts

10x fire warriors 100 pts
9x fire warriors 90pts

3x broadsides w, high yield missile pods, and smart missile system, early warning override and 6x missile drones 282pts

Aegis defense line w/ quad gun 100pts

Lots of guns, but you are really relying on completely tabling your opponent which I don't find to be very likely if you were to face any army packing over 100 infantry models. At that point most of your fancy high Str and AP3 and below becomes negligible. Relying on 39 T3 models to capture objectives is a very, very risky proposition.

In short, I think you can do better with this combo.

LValx wrote:
Lots of guns, but you are really relying on completely tabling your opponent

What? With 4 scoring units and an aegis I'd have to disagree.

In short, I think you can do better with this combo.

But yeah, I agree with this. The list lack focus.

LValx wrote:
Lots of guns, but you are really relying on completely tabling your opponent which I don't find to be very likely if you were to face any army packing over 100 infantry models. At that point most of your fancy high Str and AP3 and below becomes negligible. Relying on 39 T3 models to capture objectives is a very, very risky proposition.

In short, I think you can do better with this combo.

Don't have to table them, just kill off their troops or shoot them off the objectives. The broadsides are the reason I included the Tau they will be good at picking off troops.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Griddlelol wrote:

LValx wrote:
Lots of guns, but you are really relying on completely tabling your opponent

What? With 4 scoring units and an aegis I'd have to disagree.

In short, I think you can do better with this combo.

But yeah, I agree with this. The list lack focus.

I like the mixture of str and ap though, have a little of everything.

How would you change it? Prolly start with the executioners? I am a fan, even though most don't like them.

 Griddlelol wrote:

LValx wrote:
Lots of guns, but you are really relying on completely tabling your opponent

What? With 4 scoring units and an aegis I'd have to disagree.

In short, I think you can do better with this combo.

But yeah, I agree with this. The list lack focus.

He has what, 350 points, max invested in troops? That are quite squishy. Most competitive lists in 6th take large numbers of troops and usually if they rely on GEQs they end up taking blobs, which are far more survivable than these little squads. The FWs will also have LD problems, you kill 1 and the unit has a decent change of running.

I'd probably lose a Vendetta, replace the Leman Russes with Griffons/Manticores and add a Blob + Lord Commissar. I'd also try and fit a Riptide in there.

LValx wrote:

He has what, 350 points, max invested in troops? That are quite squishy.

False. One has a 3+ behind the aegis, the others can easily GTG for 2+.

Most competitive lists in 6th take large numbers of troops and usually if they rely on GEQs they end up taking blobs, which are far more survivable than these little squads.

Again false. Have you played at a tournament? Most players are bringing a very small number of troops and bringing lots and lots of powerful units.

LValx wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

LValx wrote:
Lots of guns, but you are really relying on completely tabling your opponent

What? With 4 scoring units and an aegis I'd have to disagree.

In short, I think you can do better with this combo.

But yeah, I agree with this. The list lack focus.

He has what, 350 points, max invested in troops? That are quite squishy. Most competitive lists in 6th take large numbers of troops and usually if they rely on GEQs they end up taking blobs, which are far more survivable than these little squads. The FWs will also have LD problems, you kill 1 and the unit has a decent change of running.

I'd probably lose a Vendetta, replace the Leman Russes with Griffons/Manticores and add a Blob + Lord Commissar. I'd also try and fit a Riptide in there.

An see have neither manticore or griffon and I don't see a riptide being that much of an upgrade to an executioner as far as far as firepower goes, it might survive longer, both will be bullet magnets. The troops are quite squishy but all they have to do is live. The vets behind the line will have a 3+ cover and I shouldn't have to worry about Helldrakes with as much interceptor power as I do. The melta vet squad will be tagging along with one of the vendettas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Griddlelol wrote:

LValx wrote:

He has what, 350 points, max invested in troops? That are quite squishy.

False. One has a 3+ behind the aegis, the others can easily GTG for 2+.

Most competitive lists in 6th take large numbers of troops and usually if they rely on GEQs they end up taking blobs, which are far more survivable than these little squads.

Again false. Have you played at a tournament? Most players are bringing a very small number of troops and bringing lots and lots of powerful units.

He is right, you don't want large numbers of units in case purge the alien is rolled also small troop squads are more likely to cost you first blood.

 Griddlelol wrote:

LValx wrote:

He has what, 350 points, max invested in troops? That are quite squishy.

False. One has a 3+ behind the aegis, the others can easily GTG for 2+.

Most competitive lists in 6th take large numbers of troops and usually if they rely on GEQs they end up taking blobs, which are far more survivable than these little squads.

Again false. Have you played at a tournament? Most players are bringing a very small number of troops and bringing lots and lots of powerful units.

lol. Yea I play at tournaments. Top 8'd at NOVA last year. So don't try to tell me how people play. I saw the top tables because I played on them and the vast majority of armies focused heavily on troops.

Heres Tony Kopach's current list:
Rune Priest
Rune Priest
Primaris Psyker
2x Plain PCS
2x 50 man Guard blobs with no special weapons and 5 power axes each
2x Manticore
3x Vendetta

Or check out Andrew Gonyo's lists, or Hulksmash's lists. Come back when you've got some evidence.

LValx wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

LValx wrote:

He has what, 350 points, max invested in troops? That are quite squishy.

False. One has a 3+ behind the aegis, the others can easily GTG for 2+.

Most competitive lists in 6th take large numbers of troops and usually if they rely on GEQs they end up taking blobs, which are far more survivable than these little squads.

Again false. Have you played at a tournament? Most players are bringing a very small number of troops and bringing lots and lots of powerful units.

lol. Yea I play at tournaments. Top 8'd at NOVA last year. So don't try to tell me how people play. I saw the top tables because I played on them and the vast majority of armies focused heavily on troops.

Heres Tony Kopach's current list:
Rune Priest
Rune Priest
Primaris Psyker
2x Plain PCS
2x 50 man Guard blobs with no special weapons and 5 power axes each
2x Manticore
3x Vendetta

Or check out Andrew Gonyo's lists, or Hulksmash's lists. Come back when you've got some evidence.

That list right there is why I hate playing in tournaments.

LValx wrote:

Come back when you've got some evidence.

Evidence like your anecdotal evidence?

You'll also notice that I used the qualifier most for a reason.

btw, 16 Interceptor Str7 shots (not sure if Interceptor applies to Drones) will still only yield ~ 3 HPs on a Drake after it Jinks, what do you do when there are three? I understand that your Vendettas will kill them after a few turns, but the problem is even 1 or two turn turns of Drake shooting can do a number on those troops. Manticores/Griffons/enemy Broadsides/Dreadknights, or other fast flamers and barrage will also do a number on your troops. I just think it is a bit too risky to rely on so few troops. I think you need some barrage in this list. The Riptide is nice because it is flexible, but you certainly don't NEED it. As I said, I'd drop a Vendetta, the Russes, probably a FW squad and add a large group of Guardsmen + PCS so you have 5 troops and more overall scoring bodies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Griddlelol wrote:

LValx wrote:

Come back when you've got some evidence.

Evidence like your anecdotal evidence?

You'll also notice that I used the qualifier most for a reason.

My anecdotal evidence is better than your lack of any. Check out what lists are winning GT sized events and you'll see that troops are generally invested heavily in. You said that people don't take many troops. That is wrong. Show me otherwise. I've given some examples of competitive players who win and compete in GT sized events, their lists all heavily favor taking lots of scoring models. And you said most, which implies a greater number, I think this statement is false. Some players may rely on smaller numbers, but they will generally offset that by taking transports or taking more squads. He doesnt have many squads (4) and they arent large or protected by a transport either. A player like Tomb King can get away with only having 30 scoring models because he puts 4 squads in Scythes thus giving them protection and allowing them to be transported to different areas on the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

valace2 wrote:

LValx wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

LValx wrote:

He has what, 350 points, max invested in troops? That are quite squishy.

False. One has a 3+ behind the aegis, the others can easily GTG for 2+.

Most competitive lists in 6th take large numbers of troops and usually if they rely on GEQs they end up taking blobs, which are far more survivable than these little squads.

Again false. Have you played at a tournament? Most players are bringing a very small number of troops and bringing lots and lots of powerful units.

lol. Yea I play at tournaments. Top 8'd at NOVA last year. So don't try to tell me how people play. I saw the top tables because I played on them and the vast majority of armies focused heavily on troops.

Heres Tony Kopach's current list:
Rune Priest
Rune Priest
Primaris Psyker
2x Plain PCS
2x 50 man Guard blobs with no special weapons and 5 power axes each
2x Manticore
3x Vendetta

Or check out Andrew Gonyo's lists, or Hulksmash's lists. Come back when you've got some evidence.

That list right there is why I hate playing in tournaments.

It is a tough list, but is yours really that much more friendly? You guys are both running somewhat extreme lists, his just is extreme in a different manner.

LValx wrote:
btw, 16 Interceptor Str7 shots (not sure if Interceptor applies to Drones) will still only yield ~ 3 HPs on a Drake after it Jinks, what do you do when there are three? I understand that your Vendettas will kill them after a few turns, but the problem is even 1 or two turn turns of Drake shooting can do a number on those troops. Manticores/Griffons/enemy Broadsides/Dreadknights, or other fast flamers and barrage will also do a number on your troops. I just think it is a bit too risky to rely on so few troops. I think you need some barrage in this list. The Riptide is nice because it is flexible, but you certainly don't NEED it. As I said, I'd drop a Vendetta, the Russes, probably a FW squad and add a large group of Guardsmen + PCS so you have 5 troops and more overall scoring bodies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Griddlelol wrote:

LValx wrote:

Come back when you've got some evidence.

Evidence like your anecdotal evidence?

You'll also notice that I used the qualifier most for a reason.

My anecdotal evidence is better than your lack of any. Check out what lists are winning GT sized events and you'll see that troops are generally invested heavily in. You said that people don't take many troops. That is wrong. Show me otherwise. I've given some examples of competitive players who win and compete in GT sized events, their lists all heavily favor taking lots of scoring models.

Fortunately there are no players who use 3 Heldrakes in my area and only 1 guy uses more than 1, and in case I played him, I would have to hope that he doesn't get both in on the same turn.

No, I said most player don't bring a large number of troops. I don't agree with the tactic of toys > boys, and every list I've ever posted is heavy on troops.

How exactly can I show you otherwise? Do I type out a list that I saw at the past tournament I've been to and some how submit that as evidence? Anecdotal evidence is weak and frankly rather pointless. Just like this argument.

 Griddlelol wrote:
No, I said most player don't bring a large number of troops. I don't agree with the tactic of toys > boys, and every list I've ever posted is heavy on troops.

How exactly can I show you otherwise? Do I type out a list that I saw at the past tournament I've been to and some how submit that as evidence? Anecdotal evidence is weak and frankly rather pointless. Just like this argument.

Post me examples of lists that do well at tournaments that don't invest heavily in troops. Should be easy since MOST players don't do so. Your evidence is just as anecdotal, lol, how can you not see that? You say that you see lists at tournaments that don't invest heavily, that is anecdotal. I disagree, based off of my anecdotal evidence. However, I can supply you some tournament results from big US events that will at least support my position. I am challenging you to do the same.

Griddlelol wrote: Anecdotal evidence is weak and frankly rather pointless. Just like this argument.

LValx wrote:
I am challenging you to do the same.

See my previous post.

LValx wrote:
:
Rune Priest
Rune Priest
Primaris Psyker
2x Plain PCS
2x 50 man Guard blobs with no special weapons and 5 power axes each
2x Manticore
3x Vendetta

What is the str and ap on a manticore? It's ap3 isn't it?

 Griddlelol wrote:

Griddlelol wrote: Anecdotal evidence is weak and frankly rather pointless. Just like this argument.

LValx wrote:
I am challenging you to do the same.

See my previous post.

You made a big generalization. I'd imagine you look at GT results and look at the armies to come to such conclusions, so it shouldn't be hard to give examples. I base my opinion off of the fact that I do follow GTs and the results they offer and most of the lists show that players in 6th, moreso than in 5th, place an onus on bringing lots of troops.

And my own experience also supports that position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

valace2 wrote:

LValx wrote:
:
Rune Priest
Rune Priest
Primaris Psyker
2x Plain PCS
2x 50 man Guard blobs with no special weapons and 5 power axes each
2x Manticore
3x Vendetta

What is the str and ap on a manticore? It's ap3 isn't it?

Str 10, Ap4. Very good vehicle. Though I do like the Griffon for its cheap cost and accuracy.

LValx wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

Griddlelol wrote: Anecdotal evidence is weak and frankly rather pointless. Just like this argument.

LValx wrote:
I am challenging you to do the same.

See my previous post.

You made a big generalization. I'd imagine you look at GT results and look at the armies to come to such conclusions, so it shouldn't be hard to give examples. I base my opinion off of the fact that I do follow GTs and the results they offer and most of the lists show that players in 6th, moreso than in 5th, place an onus on bringing lots of troops.

And my own experience also supports that position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

valace2 wrote:

LValx wrote:
:
Rune Priest
Rune Priest
Primaris Psyker
2x Plain PCS
2x 50 man Guard blobs with no special weapons and 5 power axes each
2x Manticore
3x Vendetta

What is the str and ap on a manticore? It's ap3 isn't it?

Str 10, Ap4. Very good vehicle. Though I do like the Griffon for its cheap cost and accuracy.

I think with my missilesides ignoring cover chewing up the guard blobs and getting their 2+ against the manticore shots I could beat that list. How many points is that list?

1850. I think youd have a tough time, not enough cover ignoring shots, 12 is nice but not back breaking and he could always roll the 4++ divination power or endurance on biomancy. Manticores would really mess you up as well.

LValx wrote:
1850. I think youd have a tough time, not enough cover ignoring shots, 12 is nice but not back breaking and he could always roll the 4++ divination power or endurance on biomancy. Manticores would really mess you up as well.

12? try 36. 12 smart missiles, 12 missile pod shots, and then another 12 missile pod shots from the drones all twin linked and all ignoring cover and like the big bad manticore wound his guard blobsmen on a 2+. The only thing he could really threaten with the manticores is the armour which if he went went 1st i would hide well enough to get a cover save. As for my troops rofl they are fire warriors and guardsman lol and even a whirlwind wounds them on a 2+ and behind the line they save as well against the whirlwind as they do against the manticore. My broadsides save on a 2+ anyway and it would have fun chewing through 6 drones.

To get down to 1850 I would most likely drop a vendetta, because my interceptors should be able to knock one of his out the minute it hits the table, evening the odds, besides what will kill more guardsmen a Vendetta or a executioner? My vendettas would ignore his and kill the manticores.

I would enjoy playing that list very much. Maybe my sniper vets could pick out his rune priests who knows.

That can't be Tony's entire list. It's missing a mandatory sw troop choice. I'm guessing its 10 ghs in a pod, but he might be foot slogging them. I'm sad he's not running njal anymore, but I'm not surprised.

No more lone wolves either, sad. His older lists, while insane, were still kind of fluffy

Ohh, he runs a 5 man GH squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

valace2 wrote:

LValx wrote:
1850. I think youd have a tough time, not enough cover ignoring shots, 12 is nice but not back breaking and he could always roll the 4++ divination power or endurance on biomancy. Manticores would really mess you up as well.

12? try 36. 12 smart missiles, 12 missile pod shots, and then another 12 missile pod shots from the drones all twin linked and all ignoring cover and like the big bad manticore wound his guard blobsmen on a 2+. The only thing he could really threaten with the manticores is the armour which if he went went 1st i would hide well enough to get a cover save. As for my troops rofl they are fire warriors and guardsman lol and even a whirlwind wounds them on a 2+ and behind the line they save as well against the whirlwind as they do against the manticore. My broadsides save on a 2+ anyway and it would have fun chewing through 6 drones.

To get down to 1850 I would most likely drop a vendetta, because my interceptors should be able to knock one of his out the minute it hits the table, evening the odds, besides what will kill more guardsmen a Vendetta or a executioner? My vendettas would ignore his and kill the manticores.

I would enjoy playing that list very much. Maybe my sniper vets could pick out his rune priests who knows.

I think you are overly confident. How are your Drones TL btw?

LValx wrote:
Ohh, he runs a 5 man GH squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

valace2 wrote:

LValx wrote:
1850. I think youd have a tough time, not enough cover ignoring shots, 12 is nice but not back breaking and he could always roll the 4++ divination power or endurance on biomancy. Manticores would really mess you up as well.

12? try 36. 12 smart missiles, 12 missile pod shots, and then another 12 missile pod shots from the drones all twin linked and all ignoring cover and like the big bad manticore wound his guard blobsmen on a 2+. The only thing he could really threaten with the manticores is the armour which if he went went 1st i would hide well enough to get a cover save. As for my troops rofl they are fire warriors and guardsman lol and even a whirlwind wounds them on a 2+ and behind the line they save as well against the whirlwind as they do against the manticore. My broadsides save on a 2+ anyway and it would have fun chewing through 6 drones.

To get down to 1850 I would most likely drop a vendetta, because my interceptors should be able to knock one of his out the minute it hits the table, evening the odds, besides what will kill more guardsmen a Vendetta or a executioner? My vendettas would ignore his and kill the manticores.

I would enjoy playing that list very much. Maybe my sniper vets could pick out his rune priests who knows.

I think you are overly confident. How are your Drones TL btw?

I dunno I just think it would be a favorable match up for the list I posted. Weapons that ignore cover would put a serious hurting on that list. Yes he could roll forwarning but who knows.

The command and control node twin links everything that isn't twin linked already.

Yeah, he has those too though. I think his list has the edge because it simply has way more infantry. More durable scoring bodies is huge and you cannot underestimate those psychic tricks.

Well it looks a very strong list to me, the aegis will protect you big guns and a few broadsides to push up it seems very good indeed.