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Hello all, I recently finished assembling and painting my second Warhound Titan. As soon as I finished with that project I moved on to my very first Dreamforge model. I purchased the Leviathan Crusader about a month ago while still working on my Warhound. I decided that it would be valuable for some users here on Dakka to post my findings about the two kits.

1: Aesthetics

While this category is largely a matter of personal opinion, I figured I would throw it in anyway, as the pictures of the Crusader don't always tell the whole story about the scale and coolness of this kit.

The Crusader is a much more humanoid looking model, and therefore does not, in my opinion, fit the aesthetic that one would necessary hope for as a proxy to a genuine Warhound. That being said, I do find that the model could certainly pass as belonging in the 40k Universe, particularly in the Black Templar or Grey Knight chapters. The model lacks some of the finer details seen on the Forgeworld Titans, namely some of the cabling, and spikey/skully bits. This can, of course, by rectified by the modeler, but it's worth noting that the kit itself doesn't come with any of these aesthetic extras.

I confess that I favor the look of the Warhound, it is less humanoid and therefore looks more like a machine of war that could actually exist in the real world.

2: Customization

This one is difficult. The Warhound can be customized in almost any number of ways, but the Crusader just flat out invites you to pose it in any way that you would dare. While the Warhound can truly be a punishing kit if you don't get it quite right, the Crusader is much more forgiving, and clearly designed with poseability in mind. The only problem with this, I find, is that the model can very easily wind up feeling like a child's toy, rather than a true wargame miniature. This might be my own self consciousness sinking in though...As a grown man who still plays with, paints, and assembles glorified GI Joe's, this might be a sore spot for me.

The Leviathan also has a number of weapon options that are supposed to be coming out sometime this month. While the Warhound has had its range of weapons for years, it's also worth pointing out that the leviathan doesn't require the modeler to saw, screw, and magnetize the entire model in order to swap out weapons. The arms swivel freely and can easily be swapped out once the new weapon kits come out. It's entirely possible to have an equally nice looking Warhound with changeable arms, but it takes a great deal more work for sure.

3: Size

The Leviathan is as tall as a warhound if you count the smoke stacks, if not, it's a good inch shorter. The weapons, however, are seemingly of a more cartooney scale on the Leviathan than on the Warhound, this is because of both the size and the aesthetic of the weapons. Some of the incoming weapons for the leviathan look to fix this problem though

4: Ease of assembly

The Leviathan takes this, hands down...it is an easier model to assemble in almost every way. Because the kit is plastic, there are fewer issues with pieces being misshapen, and less time spent cleaning the kit. The kit also comes in very conveniently stacked sprues that are even rubber banded together. Everything is exactly labeled. Those of us who have put together Titans, know that the kits basically come in a few plastic bags, leaving the modeler to sort it out for himself. This approach isn't BAD per se, and some people might even prefer this method. I just found myself thinking that Dreamforge seems to actually care about the user experience more than Forgewold does. It could be a difference in model philosophy...but if you are more of a beginner modeler and don't know if you can handle a Titan yet, do yourself a favor and try the Leviathan first, then work on some smaller resin pieces before investing in a Titan.

With that all being said, get yourself a bigger screw driver than the one that the Crusader comes with. The size of the screw driver in the kit is simply too small for 90% of the screws that you'll be driving. That's not to say that Dreamforge dropped the ball, as it is very generous and thoughtful of them to give us a screwdriver small enough to fit the smallest screws. A leatherman multitool sized screw driver is what I used with my kit, and it worked like a charm.

In all, it takes me about a week or so to fully assemble a Forgeworld Warhound, partly because I paint certain parts as I go (due to the interior detail and more fiddly bits on the Warhound, it's next to impossible to assemble completely before painting it. At least if you want the interior painted to a decent standard. The Leviathan Crusader took me less than a day to build. It's that freaking easy.

5: Bad Assery

This one remains to be seen...none of my friends have given me their opinions yet, as I JUST finished the Crusader. I plan on painting him next week...I snapped a picture with my ipad though to share with Dakka...who do you guys see winning this bout?

I'd say the Warhound looks more badass, the hunched over with huge striding legs appearance conveys such a crazy level of power and age I don't think a scaled up grey knight can compare.
Just my opinion.

Warhound wins the badassery section hands down. The dreamforge mini looks like a Knight Titan and I may actually pick up one to remake into a Knight

Am I the only one that hates GW Titans? They look so goofy.

While i the Crusader has a cool factor "titan" the warhound is a staple in the 40k universe and can never truly be "replaced" The crusader is a nice touch for like many have said GK or a knight titan feel me personal i know a FW titan is out my my price range at the time buttttt i am looking forward to dreamforges upcoming Mortis model that thing is sick looking the sheer size of his lightning claw makes me quake with excitement ( could be cause i'm a heretic lol)

 lordofthegophers wrote:
Am I the only one that hates GW Titans? They look so goofy.

I used to, but they grew on me, just like the dorky Eldar coneheads and the bulldog terminators. Now I love pretty much all GW designs.

I used to think GK PA and TDA were the coolest things ever but now I think they look worse than the generic versions. The knight helmets are good for conversions though.

 lordofthegophers wrote:
Am I the only one that hates GW Titans? They look so goofy.

I used to...I now love the mars pattern quite a bit...I love the reaver as well, wish they'd make a warlord model

I like the 40k universe, but a lot of the model designs I find... lacking. The warhound and eldar coneheads mentioned above for example. The Eisenkern Stormtroopers, Valkir and Leviathans all seem much better designs to fill guardsman/space marine/titan roles imo.

Good to hear about the comparative ease and poseability of the all plastic leviathan. Here's hoping more kits move to all plastic, I much prefer to work with it over resin and especially over metal.

While I love the warhound. The price point over the years has always been a sore spot. Lately though, I like a of the various 3rd party stuff coming out by other companies. The DreamForge stuff really gives you a decent selection at a price that is pretty damn good. I like them both. I'd say its a draw.

The nice thing about Dreamforge Leviathans is that they would make great Knights, and better yet you can get a household of three for the price of a single Warhound, easily.

Supposedly the Leviathans are going to be getting the variant weapon arms that were in the Kickstarter sometime, too. And as the OP said, are actually designed to be easily swappable. That hasn;t existed on resin titans since the days of Armor cast, and even then they had to be screwed in.

Being able to buy 4 Crusaders for the price of a warhound is a pretty big benefit to me. I own 2 crusaders and 1 mortis, 2 custom warlord titans yet 0 warhounds. It's just not worth it for the price unfortunately.

Also, the FW molds are really really old which means if you buy a warhound It'll probably be a huge PITA to assemble.

As for looks? The warhound definitely looks bulkier I've always found the head to be really weird looking. Reaver, warlords and emperors are much cooler aesthetically.

 Kirasu wrote:
Being able to buy 4 Crusaders for the price of a warhound is a pretty big benefit to me. I own 2 crusaders and 1 mortis, 2 custom warlord titans yet 0 warhounds. It's just not worth it for the price unfortunately.

Also, the FW molds are really really old which means if you buy a warhound It'll probably be a huge PITA to assemble.

As for looks? The warhound definitely looks bulkier I've always found the head to be really weird looking. Reaver, warlords and emperors are much cooler aesthetically.

The warhounds really aren't bad to assemble because of the molds breakingi down. They're just a pain in the ass from a sheer design standpoint. The way i do them is legs and hip assembly first, followed by paint...they I paint all of the interior components, epoxy/pin all of that together,then I do the outer shell bits where I do the patterns last.

The body construction is the real challenge. That and getting the legs right

I'll agree with that; Warhounds aren't hard to put together because of the mould degradation. But my oh my do they get some fudgy details. For the GD piece I did it took around six months just to get a workable kit - torn moulds leave resin 'blobs' in peculiar places, and sometimes dremelling them out is simply more trouble than it was worth (ie a replacement part costs less than the time to fix it, indicating a replacement for free should be the option to go for). Still, you really need a plan for a large heavy resin kit before you put it together; the very nature of a pinned assembly is that you can't change it once you've committed.

winterdyne wrote:
I'll agree with that; Warhounds aren't hard to put together because of the mould degradation. But my oh my do they get some fudgy details. For the GD piece I did it took around six months just to get a workable kit - torn moulds leave resin 'blobs' in peculiar places, and sometimes dremelling them out is simply more trouble than it was worth (ie a replacement part costs less than the time to fix it, indicating a replacement for free should be the option to go for). Still, you really need a plan for a large heavy resin kit before you put it together; the very nature of a pinned assembly is that you can't change it once you've committed.

Wow, that takes me by surprise.
The one I got was almost perfect out of the box, although to be fair I bought mine second hand and it must have been from a older/better mold.
Assembly for me took around a week if you chained my random nights of work together, but it was pretty easy (although magnetizing can be a bit harder).

And to get back to looks: The warhound titan is one thing the crusader is not, and that's stylized.
Where as the armored knight look is pretty classic, the warhound's design has an unusual visual theme with it's inverted legs, hunched back, and wolf-like eyes and mouth.
Due to this it's a lot more polarizing a model, like an old car from the 50s with "space-fins" you either love it or hate it.
I used to despise it, but that's before I started messing around with old armorcast stuff, it gives you an appreciation for the design roots and style.

Exactly. That's why I would personally be using a Warhound as a Warhound, and a Leviathan as a Knight. Leviathan's fit the design aesthetic of a Knight almost perfectly.

Has anyone heard when the Mortis will be done? I can't find any information on it anywhere.

 IceRapture wrote:


Wow, that takes me by surprise.
The one I got was almost perfect out of the box, although to be fair I bought mine second hand and it must have been from a older/better mold.
Assembly for me took around a week if you chained my random nights of work together, but it was pretty easy (although magnetizing can be a bit harder).

And to get back to looks: The warhound titan is one thing the crusader is not, and that's stylized.
Where as the armored knight look is pretty classic, the warhound's design has an unusual visual theme with it's inverted legs, hunched back, and wolf-like eyes and mouth.
Due to this it's a lot more polarizing a model, like an old car from the 50s with "space-fins" you either love it or hate it.
I used to despise it, but that's before I started messing around with old armorcast stuff, it gives you an appreciation for the design roots and style.

Easiest way to tell is if you got sillicone rubber cables rather than resin. Those were provided with the older kits, but were phased out for some reason - probably knackered moulds up really fast.

I wasn't THAT lucky .
I just didn't use the cables.

Mine was chaos so I just snapped them off and glued the ends in to show the wear and tear.
I had heard legends of the ridiculously awesome rubber cables though.

winterdyne wrote:

 IceRapture wrote:


Wow, that takes me by surprise.
The one I got was almost perfect out of the box, although to be fair I bought mine second hand and it must have been from a older/better mold.
Assembly for me took around a week if you chained my random nights of work together, but it was pretty easy (although magnetizing can be a bit harder).

And to get back to looks: The warhound titan is one thing the crusader is not, and that's stylized.
Where as the armored knight look is pretty classic, the warhound's design has an unusual visual theme with it's inverted legs, hunched back, and wolf-like eyes and mouth.
Due to this it's a lot more polarizing a model, like an old car from the 50s with "space-fins" you either love it or hate it.
I used to despise it, but that's before I started messing around with old armorcast stuff, it gives you an appreciation for the design roots and style.

Easiest way to tell is if you got sillicone rubber cables rather than resin. Those were provided with the older kits, but were phased out for some reason - probably knackered moulds up really fast.

Crusader is pretty much done being painted (the wonders of airbrushing) The highlights don't come out amazingly well on the ipad camera, but basically what I did was airbrushed grey tones on the raised bits and then hit it with the oil discharge minitaire ghost tint. This wound up giving the highlights a blue effect and the overall model a neat bronze finish...I liked this look but found it to be too bronze to be black templars...so I hit the model with createx transparent black paint, which got rid of some of the blues and helped tone down the bronze look to the model. The shoulder pad is a simple tape technique, I was quite happy with the results.


Hope you like, apologies for the quality, there's a shot of my Warhound for comparison.

Warhoun wins, no contest imo.

I think they both look amazing. However, I'm looking forward to the Blight Wheel Prometheus for my Iron Warriors.

If the Crusader was alittle larger i would say it wins. but it just looks too small to be a real proxy for Warhound -Bthats just my opinion though.

on a purely aesthetics basis i prefer the crusdaer - if only it was scaled up a little.

 Davespil wrote:
Has anyone heard when the Mortis will be done? I can't find any information on it anywhere.

Last word was that it is supposed to be ready sometime this month.

 lordofthegophers wrote:
Am I the only one that hates GW Titans? They look so goofy.

Nope. *Raises hand* I hate them too.

As to the DF one having weapons that are "too cartooney" ...

Compared to a 40k one?

Exsqueeze me? That's like saying looney toons is more cartooney than Dragonball Z.

machine of war that could actually exist in the real world.

NO giant striding walking battlemachines that size could exist in the REAL world. In the real world, we have things called ground pressure and tall silhouettes which is the main reason we still have tracked and low-slung battle machines over a certain tonnage.

That comparison pic certainly makes it clear that the Warhound is far bulkier than the Crusader, if not much taller. However, I also have to wonder how the Warhound can successfully walk without falling forwards, given how much of it extends beyond the legs. But I guess oversized parts has always been a core element of the GW style. But, given that I own a Crusader and will be painting it up as a Grey Knights titan (I also build up the base a bit to give it an extra inch or so of height), I may be a bit biased.

How is the Leviathan's weapons possibly "cartoony"? It's a Vulkan Mega-bolter and a war-machine close combat weapon-sized power sword.

Evidently the 'official' GW armament of a Knight being a battlecannon and fifteen-foot foot long Chainsword is not nearly as cartoony? Or a Reaver Titan having a power fist the size of a Land Raider, as a viable weapon on a walker that can nearly carry Capitol Ship-class ranged armaments,and will be fighting opponents armed similarly from across a city?

"I have given the command! Power down the Plasma Blaster and divert power to the legs. I wish to stride through that apartment block so I can punch that Heretical titan!"

I've always thought that the Warlord & Emperor Titans seemed a little putting off (more so in the Emperor). I've always liked the looks of the Mars Warhound and Reaver (lucius patterns look pretty weird...), they seem more elegant and practical then the OOT in the Warlord and Emperor.

 chromedog wrote:

 lordofthegophers wrote:
Am I the only one that hates GW Titans? They look so goofy.

Nope. *Raises hand* I hate them too.

As to the DF one having weapons that are "too cartooney" ...

Compared to a 40k one?

Exsqueeze me? That's like saying looney toons is more cartooney than Dragonball Z.

machine of war that could actually exist in the real world.

NO giant striding walking battlemachines that size could exist in the REAL world. In the real world, we have things called ground pressure and tall silhouettes which is the main reason we still have tracked and low-slung battle machines over a certain tonnage.

Physics aside, the warhound definitely has a more gritty and real world feel to it, there's no denying that. Even if it could very obviously never exist (which is purely a matter of opinion, as many people would have looked t modern aircraft 70 years ago and said it would never fly

Anyway, the crusader is actually not that much shorter than the warhound, it's just the picture. I would estimate that it's within 3/4 of an inch in height.

I also have to say that the crusader was a much more pleasurable, if not simplistic painting experience. The internal bits of he warhound seem cool to people, but they're a pain to get painted for something that nobody will likely ever care to look at.

The crusader is all function, and I can respect that, it just feels a little bit too much like a buzz lighthearted toy from the 1990's. one moment I love he aesthetic, the next I'm almost embarrassed to have it on my game table.

I am particularly fascinated by this thread as I own both a warhound and a leviathan, and neither has yet been unboxed, let alone assembled.

 Ouze wrote:
I am particularly fascinated by this thread as I own both a warhound and a leviathan, and neither has yet been unboxed, let alone assembled.

I personally recommend doing the leviathan first, as it requires about 1/10th the time investment and you can finish it quickly without feeling like you have the warhound project looming for too long. I started the warhound first, having about 30 untainted gants, plus the crusader, and I felt pressured the whole time to finish so that I could move to other projects, if you're anything like me, you'll want todo the quicker project first so that you can take your time on the warhound, which is the more expensive model, more worthy of a big time investment