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Hey guys, so I've been out of the 40k and dakkadakka loop for loooong time, so firstly: "Howdy!" And secondly I apologize if this question has been addressed a while back, just getting back into the tabletop groove.

My question is: Does a 2nd Primary Detachment need the mandatory 1 HQ and 2 Troops?

Thanks for any comments and help!

Whilst it's not specifically written in the section on Bigger Games (page 110), it equally gives you no reason to assume that the 2nd is not exactly the same as the 1st in terms of compulsory choices.

Yes. The 2nd detachment is exactly the same organisation as the first.

Quanar wrote:
Whilst it's not specifically written in the section on Bigger Games (page 110), it equally gives you no reason to assume that the 2nd is not exactly the same as the 1st in terms of compulsory choices.

Or any choices for that matter. No buying 16 fast attack!

Ok so it's sort of like having a second army albeit with the same Codex, rather than an expansion of the FOC.

Well thanks for the quick replies!

 asimo77 wrote:
Ok so it's sort of like having a second army albeit with the same Codex, rather than an expansion of the FOC.

Well thanks for the quick replies!

Correct.

Ok another issue came up when going over the Allies/Detachments section. Can other Primary Detachments use the transports of other Primary Detachments? Are they treated as being Battle Brothers? Allies are specifically stated to not be able to embark on other's transports even Battle Brothers, however a 2nd Detachment isn't an Ally techinically...Seems very confusing!

Also so I don't have to ask later I might as well ask for clarification on these issues in this post as well:

Can IC's from other Primary Detachments join another Detachment's units? Do Psyker powers affect friendly Detachments? If I have someone that unlocks a unit from one FOC slot to another FOC slot (like Abbadon making Chosen Troops) will that affect only the Detachment the Character is from?

Thanks for any answers, and I apologize for the inundation of questions.

 asimo77 wrote:
Ok another issue came up when going over the Allies/Detachments section. Can other Primary Detachments use the transports of other Primary Detachments? Are they treated as being Battle Brothers? Allies are specifically stated to not be able to embark on other's transports even Battle Brothers, however a 2nd Detachment isn't an Ally techinically...Seems very confusing!

You're inserting confusion. Your 2nd primary detachment is not an ally.

Can IC's from other Primary Detachments join another Detachment's units? Do Psyker powers affect friendly Detachments?

Again, they aren't allies. They're another primary detachment.

If I have someone that unlocks a unit from one FOC slot to another FOC slot (like Abbadon making Chosen Troops) will that affect only the Detachment the Character is from?

Read Abby's rule again. It's very clear.

So there can't be any interaction between the 2 Detachments then?

 asimo77 wrote:
So there can't be any interaction between the 2 Detachments then?

Why would you think that?

An IC has general permission to join units. Is there anything denying that?
A unit has general permission to embark on transports. Allies have a rule denying that permission. Do 2nd Primary detachments?

Do I need to keep going?

Hey no need to get sassy.

The reason I was confused is because your previous answers have been "It's a Primary Detachment/It's not an Ally" clearly I'm confused as to what those things specifically entail that's why those answers weren't clarifying things for me fully. Simple "yes's" and "no's" to the specific questions would have sufficed.

But it seems like IC's, Psykers, and transports all interact together without any issues.

There is no distinction between primary detachments. It's all one army.

 asimo77 wrote:
Hey no need to get sassy.

The reason I was confused is because your previous answers have been "It's a Primary Detachment/It's not an Ally" clearly I'm confused as to what those things specifically entail that's why those answers weren't clarifying things for me fully. Simple "yes's" and "no's" to the specific questions would have sufficed.

But it seems like IC's, Psykers, and transports all interact together without any issues.

I'm not being sassy. A simple yes/no would answer your question, sure. But it doesn't make you think about why.
As to what Allies/not Allies entail, the rule book is pretty clear.

 insaniak wrote:
There is no distinction between primary detachments. It's all one army.

Well, yes and no. They're still separate detachments when you're looking at a rule which applies only to a particular detachment. For example, Abby's making Chosen into Troops onto applying to a primary detachment containing him.

Well, yeah, other than that

If I'm not mistaken:
you cant use cross Transports for 1st/2nd detachments even if they are Battle Bros. (pg 112)

Also you are only required to take 1 HQ and 1 Troop in an Allied detachment. (pg 109)

 Mannahnin wrote:
Abby's making Chosen into Troops onto applying to a primary detachment containing him.

No GW love for Abby. Old codices ftw!

Most older codices say "An army that includes", so in that respect, the new CSM dex loses out on the dual elites as troops spam.

This discussion kinda makes me want to make a GK dual force org list with Coteaz and 12 units of Inquisitorial Henchmen. Surprise! GK horde list. 145 Warrior Acolytes with storm bolters: 1k points. Coteaz: 100 pts. Then 900 points of actual grey knights.

Oh the lulz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lunchmonkey wrote:
If I'm not mistaken:
1. you cant use cross Transports for 1st/2nd detachments even if they are Battle Bros. (pg 112)

2. Also you are only required to take 1 HQ and 1 Troop in an Allied detachment. (pg 109)

1. The book makes no such distinction regarding members of the same army. 1st primary detachment, and second primary detachment are both considered 1 army.

2. We're not really discussing allied detachments. Just second primary detachments(same race/faction/army).

 Lunchmonkey wrote:
If I'm not mistaken:
you cant use cross Transports for 1st/2nd detachments even if they are Battle Bros. (pg 112)

Also you are only required to take 1 HQ and 1 Troop in an Allied detachment. (pg 109)

You are confusing the rules for Detachments and Allies.
Those are two separate rules used in different ways and applying to different things.

Examples of such could be;

A second Detachment MUST be from the same codex as the first Detachment.
Allies can NEVER be from the same codex as the parent army.

A second Detachment requires 1 HQ and 2 Troops.
A Ally requires ! HQ and 1 Troops.

A second Detachment is an actual part of the "parent" army.
Allies have different levels of interaction wiht the "parent" army (Battlebrothers, Allies of Convenience and so on)


...

Ah, so this is the over 2k points secondary detachment. my bad.