Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What is the best way to do this?

The rulebook says that you allocate glancing/penetratiing hits to a squadron the same way as you woudl allocate wounds to an infantry unit.

Can you chosoe which hits go first (as in glancing or penetrating?). or choose the order (so do a pen hit on vehicle 1, get a weapon destroyed and decide not waste any more pens on it and just user glances)

And what abotu Entropic strike hits? Do you just pick a model and apply entopic strike until you eat all its armoru and move on? or can you allocate, say, 6 hits to one odel and the rest to another?



I ran into this the other day and we decided that i coudl apply the entropic strike hits as i wished (so 4 on one model, 5 on another etc) bt the actual glances and pens had to be assigned as if they were wounds (so hit, hit, dead, move on etc etc). we both agreed this as a compromise as the rules seemed a little fuzzy.

As far as the glances / pens go, you were doing it wrong (Don't worry, I was doing it wrong for a long time too!).
The Vehicle Squadron rules require you to allocate hits one at a time. So you get 20 (whatever) hits, allocate one to the closest in the squadron, roll armour pen, then move on to the next hit.

As for the Entropics, I really have no idea...

Quanar wrote:
The Vehicle Squadron rules require you to allocate hits one at a time.

If that is correct (sorry away from my book) then you've answered the ES question also as these are caused by hits to a vehicle.

Ok, I'm not fluent in Necron :-)

That gives you the (slightly) wierd situation where the armour value will go down one at a time for each hit as opposed to the normal way where all the hits hit and then all the pen rolls are at the lowered value.

If i understand ti right thent he Entropic Strike hits are resolved first..lets say you are assaultigna unit of 3 Speeders with 5 scarabs.....(i am not going to mathhammer this - just use example figures).



5 Scarabs charging = 25 attacks - 3's to hit vehicle.

17 Hits. You roll those hits to see how many 4+ you get for Entropic Strike

8 Entropic Strikes.

NOW you resolve those Strikes and hits.
If you have to allocate them as you would wounds then you have to pick a single Speeder and start counting off Entroptic Strike hits.

8 ES hits vs AV10 = Speeder now at Av2.

NOW you allocate the 17 original hits.

At AV2 and S3 all the hits are going to auto-pen this particular speeder...

The pen results are irrelevant as 2 auto-pens will wreck it from Hull Point reduction.

15 hits left.

this is where it gets weird........

You have 15 hits but you had to allocate ALL your ES hits to that first speeder. So you are now left with 15 S3 hits on 2 AV10 targets....you can't do anything.

15 wasted attacks.




SO.

Am I allocating the ES strikes incorrcetly (can i spread them around as i see fit for mamximum affect?). Or is charging scarabs into vehicle squardons simple an ineffective tactic?

if it was just normal wound from, lets say multiple lascannons i woudl feel ok saying "i will put 1 pen hit on this target and aother on this target". but thsi can't be fair at all since the Pen hits have been geberated as a direct result of the ES strikes ona single target. Against any other target those hits would not have even scratched the armour.

Had a quick gander at the Necron FAQ, found this:
Page 29 – The Army of Aeons Past, Entropic Strike.
Add “Against squadrons, these hits are allocated as for glancing
and penetrating hits.” Immediately before the last sentence.

So, from your example, you take the 17 hits, allocate one to the nearest vehicle, roll one Entropic (assume it works and reduce AV by 1), then roll one penetration roll against the armour (-1).
Then from the 16 remaining, allocate one to the same vehicle, roll one Entropic (again, assume it works), then roll one pen against armour (-2). Etc. Etc.

This would make Entropics worse against squadrons than normal single vehicles, but would mean you're not completely wasting the attacks on the second vehicle.

If anyone thinks my interpretation is wrong, please speak up!

No, that's not correct. You'd allocate all of them to the nearest vehicle until it is destroyed, then move on to the next one. It's not saying that you allocate ES when you allocate the hit, but that you allocate ES using the same method.

17 hits, 8 Entropic Strikes. Against a squadron of Rhinos (I know they can't, its just the only vehicle I remember the AV of) you'd reduce the first model to AV3/2/2 and then roll to pen 17 times (auto-penning) allocating them as the rules require (individually resolving).

Again that isnt quite right, as you would allocate A hit against the newly reduced armour, roll to penetrate, resolve. Then move onto the next Hit

This is what makes it work this way:
Against squadrons, these hits are allocated as for glancing
and penetrating hits

When you allocate a hit against a squadron, you roll the die and see what happens. If the vehicle is still up, you roll the next one, and so on.

So what you would do is:
Roll to hit - 17 hits
Closest Vehicle
-Take 1 hit
--Roll to ES
---Roll to Glance/Pen, if able
Resolve the next hit, etc

So in theory, assuming mathhammer here, then out of 17 hits you will have 8 ES. you need about 3 ES hits then to destroy an AV 10 vehicle. So mathhammerwise - 17 hits should about wreck x3 of AV 10, 3 HP a turn.

The problem in this example is your trying to roll the ES hits differently than your regular hits. You do not have 17hits and 8 ES hits.. You have 17hits, 8 of which trigger ES.

You allocate the first hit to a model, roll for ES triggering on a 4+, reduce the AV if applicable, then roll for Penetration. Repeat 16 more times.

Rigeld has it hight. FAQ pg4 2nd question I believe , clears it up. Roll for armor pen after all ES hits are rolled for since it all happens at the same I step.

So I was right then.....you have to apply all your ES strikes to a single behicle until either you run out or it is a wreck, THEN start applying rolling for armoru penetration on the hits.

Which means that if you are facing squadrons your best bet is field large squads of scarabs otherwise you will run out of ES hits before the regular hits can do any damage to any models beyond the first vehicle.

Luckily i dont think many armies out there can field squadrons of vehicles. IG and DA are the only ones that spring to mind.

Have GW ever gotten vehicles right?

So, if you scored 10xES from your hits, you'd wreck the first vehicle and do nothing to the rest of the squadron 'cus you couldn't hurt them, but scoring 9 xES results in 17 auto-penetrates?

Against squadrons you resolve 1 hit at a time. So you do 1 hit, fully resolve it and then continue to the next hit. Since ES is dependent on hits, ES will also be resolved one at a time.

As Copper said.. that FAQ applies to a normal vehicle, but squadrons have their own rules for allocation of hits.

Still seems iffy but i guess it makes the most sense.

It is iffy. I also couldn't accept this at first, but after this case was pointed out to me in another forum and after a discussion with my gaming group, I was convinced that this is the proper way to handle this situation.