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How does obscuring work?

Do you draw a box in that facing of the model and see how much percentage of that box is covered?

So let's say if 1 wing of a Heldrake is obscured by terrain, does it get a cover save?
Or let's say the Soul Grinder behind a ADL does it get a cover save as well?
And if I'm in ruins I get a 4+ cover save correct? then when I'm shooting out of it, since I'm shooting through ruins my opponent gets a 4+ cover save as well?

Also, on a side note can non-scoring units use the benefits of the objectives?
I would like to think not, since they aren't controlling the objective.

Anyway, thanks

You work out the percentage of the facing the is obscured. No imaginary box, use the actual model.

Depending how a SG is modelled it can receive a cover save from an ADL

Just because you HAVE a cover asve does not mean your opponent gets one from your shooting - use TLOS to determine if your shooting grants them a cover save.

Scoring is controlling

Most of these questions are very situational but every one of them boils down to true line of sight.

If the target is viewed from the eyeballs ( or gun barrell for vehicles ) of the firing model, is 25% of the target obscured? If yes, then it gets the save. If not then no. It doesn't matter where the firing unit is. Sometimes this is readily apparent other times its a judgement call between you and your opponent.

Taking the ruins question on whether the target gets a save while the fired is in ruins: only if the target is also obscured by the ruins from the perspective of the firing model.

That's the thing how do you judge 25%?

Is is 25% of the volume or the facing?

And up to which part counts as the model and which part doesnt?

 Makutsu wrote:
That's the thing how do you judge 25%?

Is is 25% of the volume or the facing?

And up to which part counts as the model and which part doesnt?

Trying to explain how to judge 25% without being able to actually show you is going to be difficult. And it depends on the type of model. For anything non-vehicle, it's basically 25% of the models volume must be blocked by something to gain a cover save (area terrain excluded). If it's a vehicle you must first determine what facing you are in, once you have determined that then you take the facing and judge how much of that is covered, not the entire model.

What do you mean which part counts as the model and which doesn't? Those guidelines are given in the book depending on infantry or vehicle. I believe on infantry they do not counts wings and banners (or other ornaments). But on vehicles I believe that just about everything is considered part of the "hull". Here from page 74 -
When a unit fires at a vehicle, it must be able to see its
hull or turret (ignoring the vehicle's gun barrels, antennas)
decorative banner poles, etc

Also, non-scoring units can not benefit from an objective.

Regarding non scoring and objective benefits, I think we need a clarification. Are you talking about mysterious objectives and the impact of the mysterious part?

Yeah, but if that's the case then the Soul Grinder will never get the cover save from ADL as only his leg tips are behind it.

And that's the thing too, what is etc...?
The wing could or could not be part of the hull.
Same thing as the deff rolla on the Ork Battlewagon which isn't considered part of the hull but a weapon, but it would be weird to not consider that into persepective.

Also, when talking about facing, it's impossible to say how much it is actually covered...
For an instance a Heldrake, if I model his wings tilted forwards a bit then even the slightlest cover of his wing will be 25% now.
And if it is completely horizontal then you'll never get a benefit for cover due to the wing being almost perpendicular...
I don't know these things just seem really ambiguous...

i think this pretty well shows it, this is well more than 25% of a 'box' but only ~25% is covered for purposes for cover, cover is based on the visible surface area of the vehicle in question, imperial vehicles are easy to figure out due to their boxy nature but some of the xenos vehicles can be tougher to figure out and have a bit of play for the 25% rule.

Yeah that's a really good example.

That's the thing I'm not really sure how to determine this.

And like for a soul grinder his weapons are everywhere.
So do I exclude his head since his Phelgm Blaster is there?
His warp gaze probably come from his eyes, and his hand has a sword and the guns and claws.

And technically speaking if I were to model the Heldrake with his wing vertically I could get a better coverage of the facing...
This is sort of modelling for advantage but hey who are you to judge what pose I like for my Heldrake.

One more problem I had for this was due to Wobbly Model Syndrome where the flier could not be placed on that spot, and TLOS was impossible...

In general looking at the soul grinder model I would say something like an ADL will not provide cover as most of the model is suspended up by the legs, which are just to small to count to much for cover, and the head, and arms should count for coverage, but the sword wouldn't. cover is really pretty simple over all it is just a game of pretty close, if it looks like it is about a quarter of the model covered then just go with it, most people won't argue it unless it is kind of debatable, and then just roll off with a d6 whether or not.

Well I remember in another thread don't have the link to.
That the Soul Grinder did in fact get a cover save.

So that's why these things are so ambiguous...

It depends on the location of the firer, you can't say that it will or won't, you have to look each time.

 chaplaincliff wrote:


i think this pretty well shows it, this is well more than 25% of a 'box' but only ~25% is covered for purposes for cover, cover is based on the visible surface area of the vehicle in question, imperial vehicles are easy to figure out due to their boxy nature but some of the xenos vehicles can be tougher to figure out and have a bit of play for the 25% rule.

I'm at work, so I can't check my brb, but I'm pretty sure cover is based on the % of the vehicle facing being shot at, not the entire visible surface area of the vehicle.

@barbobot: it is 25% of the facing. Would you count those heldrake wings as front or side?

I always go over it with my opponent before a game so there are no surprises during the game.

With the heldrake, I use the method from the brb where you draw an X centered over the vehicle. Obviously this is easier for imperial tanks, but for the heldrake the X pretty much makes it so that the arms and the forward part of the wings are front armor.

I have seen people draw the x from the corners of the vehicle instead of a perfect X drawn from the center, which could be correct but the brb only shows examples of square vehicles so it's kind of a grey area.

The problem I'm having with that pic is that the terrain that the heldrake is behind is not solid. If it was a solid wall, I would say about 30% of the front facing is obscured. With most of that piece having large holes in it however, I think it much less than 25%.

I think you all are putting to much into the picture whether or not there are holes the point was to demonstrate what about 25% would look like, assume this is direct on the picture is just a stock gw one i didn't try to make a perfect shot, I just tried to make a point with a visual aid.