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drop pods deep strike so the rules say that it cant assalt (as if it could) but can units inside them assalt on the turn of drop because the drop pods an open topped transport.

From the Space Wolf codex, the Drop Pod entry clearly states that units arriving from drop pod may not assault the turn they come in. I'm pretty sure the other Marine codexes say the same thing.

No unit arriving from Reserve (walk on, Deep Strike, Outflank etc) can assault, unless they have a special rule allowing them to.

 Blackskull wrote:
drop pods deep strike so the rules say that it cant assalt (as if it could) but can units inside them assalt on the turn of drop because the drop pods an open topped transport.

Drop pods can only arrive from reserves. You can't assault out of reserves.
You can't assault after deep striking.
You can't assault from disembarking, but open-topped overrides that.

So you have 3 nos and 1 yes. So no, you can't.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Blackskull wrote:
drop pods deep strike so the rules say that it cant assalt (as if it could) but can units inside them assalt on the turn of drop because the drop pods an open topped transport.

Drop pods can only arrive from reserves. You can't assault out of reserves.
You can't assault after deep striking.
You can't assault from disembarking, but open-topped overrides that.

So you have 3 nos and 1 yes. So no, you can't.

As for a example, ONE guy with a special rule i know of (not space marine related) CAN infact charge the turn he comes in due a special rule he got.




Boss Zagstruk.


I also recall there being some forgeworld drop pods that had a special rule aswell you could charge the same turn you arrive from reserve.

Also Vanguard Veterans.

Also Y'mgarl Genestealers. But thats basically the only ones I know of.

If you are open to expansions such as forgeworld and IA Lucius pattern drop pods explicitly allow assault after the pod lands. They however, cost extra

(dandy for drednoughts in pods to ensure they pulverize what they were intended to kill.)

Interestingly, Black Templars aren't forced to disembark from their drop pod when it arrives, so they can sit in there, shoot, then one their next turn disembark and assault.

Rules reference time. Units that disembark from a deep striking transport cannot assault (RB p31), barring any special rules specific to that unit or transport (e.g. Lucius Pattern Drop Pod from FW).

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Interestingly, Black Templars aren't forced to disembark from their drop pod when it arrives, so they can sit in there, shoot, then one their next turn disembark and assault.

Yeah, I am not sure where you got that from but the Drop Pods for Black Templars have almost the exact same wording as for other Space Marine Drop Pods.

"Once the drop pod has landed, the hatches are blown and all passengers must immediately disembark."

Edit:
Ahh, the FAQ changed the entry for drop pods. I see what you mean.

Zagstrukk cannot shoot the turn he arrives though, which probably isnt that big of a deal anyway since its just sluggas.

Also he forces a very tiny stormboyz unit since larger than the minimum incures one hell of a mishap chance, and youre already in one dangerous mishap situation trying to land that close to charge something.

Back on topic:

Anything from any means coming from reserves cannot assault unless otherwise specified, which far as i know is limited solely to Zagstruk and ... Ymgarls? some Nid unit that lurks in terrain.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Also Y'mgarl Genestealers. But thats basically the only ones I know of.

If you are open to expansions such as forgeworld and IA Lucius pattern drop pods explicitly allow assault after the pod lands. They however, cost extra

(dandy for drednoughts in pods to ensure they pulverize what they were intended to kill.)

Lucius pattern drop pods have the "assault vehicle" special rule, which only removes the assaulting after disembarking special rule (which is honestly redundant cause drop pods are open topped, so already have the rule). As I read it, RAW that brings up some issues. Assault vehicle doesn't override the arriving from reserves issue or they can't assault on the first player turn. I mean, you can't assault out of a Deep striking Blood Angels land raider, why does the pod get to be different with the same rule load out?Am I missing anything?

The allowance to assault, but if you do you take a dangerous terrain test

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The allowance to assault, but if you do you take a dangerous terrain test

for which?

 vongoob wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The allowance to assault, but if you do you take a dangerous terrain test

for which?

The Lucius Drop Pod. It's "Assault Vehicle" rule is different to the USR assault vehicle rule.

40k-noob wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Interestingly, Black Templars aren't forced to disembark from their drop pod when it arrives, so they can sit in there, shoot, then one their next turn disembark and assault.

Yeah, I am not sure where you got that from but the Drop Pods for Black Templars have almost the exact same wording as for other Space Marine Drop Pods.

"Once the drop pod has landed, the hatches are blown and all passengers must immediately disembark."

Edit:
Ahh, the FAQ changed the entry for drop pods. I see what you mean.

More complicated RAW that does not match RAI mess. Because they are not forced out of the drop pod, and the drop pod is considered to have moved at cruising speed and because cruising speed is greater then 6 inches and the drop pod is a transport the Black Templars do not have permission to disembark the turn it arrives. Now, I'd never force a BT player to play that way.

 DJGietzen wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Interestingly, Black Templars aren't forced to disembark from their drop pod when it arrives, so they can sit in there, shoot, then one their next turn disembark and assault.

Yeah, I am not sure where you got that from but the Drop Pods for Black Templars have almost the exact same wording as for other Space Marine Drop Pods.

"Once the drop pod has landed, the hatches are blown and all passengers must immediately disembark."

Edit:
Ahh, the FAQ changed the entry for drop pods. I see what you mean.

More complicated RAW that does not match RAI mess. Because they are not forced out of the drop pod, and the drop pod is considered to have moved at cruising speed and because cruising speed is greater then 6 inches and the drop pod is a transport the Black Templars do not have permission to disembark the turn it arrives. Now, I'd never force a BT player to play that way.

True, but a BT player could use that to his advantage. With the DP being open-topped, the whole squad can fire upon arrival and be protected by 12AV until his next movement phase then disembark, shoot and then assault.
Wicked!!

Yeah, I'd let the BT player go either way, so long as he is consistent.

They can fire snapshots, of course

 grendel083 wrote:

 vongoob wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The allowance to assault, but if you do you take a dangerous terrain test

for which?

The Lucius Drop Pod. It's "Assault Vehicle" rule is different to the USR assault vehicle rule.

Well, I hate to be that guy, but Forgeworld rulebooks are optional. If you want it to be "Assault Vehicle" but Forgeworlds version, you are going to have to make a pretty strong argument considering the only special rule binding to the game labeled "Assault Vehicle" says something different. Any chance someone has copy pasta of the difference? No one I have played against has even tried this tactic yet, they merely say "But TO from another city said I could" with no book support.

Again, I want to reiterate, with no FAQ or clarification support otherwise, the "Assault Vehicle" special rule can only refer to the USR out of the BRB. Otherwise you could argue that you were using forgeworlds interpretation of "assault vehicle" for everything that has it, or is open topped and thereby granting it the "assault vehicle" rule (as per BRB) and there would be turn 1 charge shenanigans (clearly not supported by any rules in the BRB) in every army.

Page 32, Imperial Armour 2nd edition, states specifically that the Dreadnought can make an assault the turn it lands under "Assault Vehicle"

This advanced, specific rule supercedes the rulebook, by definition

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Page 32, Imperial Armour 2nd edition, states specifically that the Dreadnought can make an assault the turn it lands under "Assault Vehicle"

This advanced, specific rule supercedes the rulebook, by definition

Does that rule specify it gets to ignore turn 1 assault restrictions? or that it gets to ignore the arriving from reserves restriction? Because all this tells me is if you didn't go first you can charge with him, but if you did go first the specific "no assaults may be declared turn 1" would trump "may assault when it lands". the wording is very specific to pass both restrictions, which is why I asked for copy pasta (I know exact rules are frowned upon, but this discussion is hard to get to the bottom of without exact wording). This is the same problem many faced with the daemons white dwarf update, and why there should be quick updates for specific clashes like this.

Regardless of the modified version of this rule in Imperial Armour, if an opponent does not have the book and wants me to play off of "internetz rules" or "How this other TO in a different place who's name I can't remember played it" then they get the USR "Assault Vehicle" out of the BRB. The burden of proof is on the user.


Side question: Is this one of the units tagged with that "40k approved" sticker that has been unbalancing games for the last bit here? Because those really irk me as they focus on about 4 armies and leave the rest to play catch up with only codex entries, and can make things very one sided.

I suggest you read the actual rulebook, and note that only if you Infiltrate or use a Scout mvoe would you be barred from assaulting on (player) turn 1. No other restriction exists - for example Ork Stormboyz can EASILY get a turn 1 charge in.

Yes, it is 40k approved.

I want to add that this has been "sort of" addressed in the FAQ question:

Q: DO transports with the Assault Vehicle special rule permit their passengers to charge on the turn they arrive from reserve?
A:No

BRB FAQ page 4.

There is no distinction made wether it's the forgeworld rule or the BRB rule they are referencing, but its written in plain English, and a specific statement posted by an official source dated after imperial armour 2.

Which is still irrelevant to the specific wording in the FW Assault Vehicle rule, which states they CAN launch an assault the turn they arrive.

It is more specific than the FAQ answer

 vongoob wrote:
the specific "no assaults may be declared turn 1"

This rule does not exist.

@Nos

I will look into the BRB after I get home, and I won't try to argue anything weird until I have the book in front of me, but I was under the impression that their was in fact a rule that barred assaults on player turn 1, and was not stated just for scouts and infiltrators.

On top of that, you have intent. I know no one likes RAI on this RAW forum, but bear with me:

You cannot deploy normal units so they can make a charge turn 1. deployment dimensions forbid it.

Units specifically allowed to move closer have a specific ban on charging turn 1.

Units arriving from reserve are (usually) banned from assaulting, more specifically any unit that can arrive turn 1 for an alpha strike is barred from assaulting.

So, it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, smells like a duck, and we have two instances that specify what a duck is, in writing, and an additional not required for gameplay supplement that has been super ceded by a more current main module update says yeah that's labeled a duck, but duck means goose.

I can see the intent of the forge world drop pod rule. I merely argue that it is poorly worded, poorly updated, and in clear contention with a mandatory rulebook USR.


EDIT: Here is another example that may help explain my point. Acute sense in the Space wolf codex says one thing, the main rulebook changed it, the FAQ confirmed it and now its something completely different to what it once was. Same thing here. It needs to be updated to close the holes in the rule. We all lost benefits from 5th edition, this may be one of them.

rigeld2 wrote:

 vongoob wrote:
the specific "no assaults may be declared turn 1"

This rule does not exist.

..unless you have Infiltrated or Scouted, however this is something that the poster Vongoob hasnt addressed

To be honest they seem very upset at the existence of the lucius, and are trying to find anyway to stop it doing what it was designed, and has rules allowing it, to do.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 vongoob wrote:
the specific "no assaults may be declared turn 1"

This rule does not exist.

..unless you have Infiltrated or Scouted, however this is something that the poster Vongoob hasnt addressed

To be honest they seem very upset at the existence of the lucius, and are trying to find anyway to stop it doing what it was designed, and has rules allowing it, to do.

Thank you for making this a hurt feelings accusation.

finger pointing and crying aside, does no one else see the issue here? or is this the one rule that magically everyone agrees on?


EDIT: Also, nos, I play GK. If I was really upset about the lucius I would just take strike squads or coteaz and make it moot. I honestly DGAF what it ends up being ruled, I merely want it to be clear , concise, and more importantly accurate.

Let's see... bikes can move 12 and you can charge 2d6 ... aka a possible 24 inch a battlewagon (open toped) with red paint job could move 7 let the guys jump out six and then they charge.

Stormboyz Jump 12+d6 then charge 2d6 Yeeeh i dont see why they shouldnt be avaible to charge first turn... no rule saying so either. And as from reserve... Heard this many times at tournaments and By GW employees (including manageer) saying IF you have a special rule stating otherwise on for example a character or a FW drop pod wich is the case You can infact charge as you arrive from reserve.