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I'm wondering if a cleansing crusade or planetary cleansing operation would cause the Imperium to throw many different forces together to "cleanse" a world or system.

For instance, a massive demonic incursion... Do you guys think that would ever cause a Space Marine force, Grey Knights, Witch Hunters, and IG regiments to assault the same world/system in coordinated fashion?


I'm wondering because as I've been working on my Doom Eagles company, I've also collected a fairly massive IG force - a couple different brands of IG too, a small GK and a small SoB force. I was considering doing some color coordination or a little back story if such a collaboration would ever take place. If nothing else, rules-wise, I could go ahead and do the color coordinating just to facilitate ease of recognition in gameplay if I'm using any of the above as allies for the other. But I like to be fluffy and Doom Eagles are notoriously devout, so they kind of feel right along side GK and SoB, and maybe a particularly zealous IG battle group.

They call them "Crusades". It happens all the time.

And they wear crusade badges, on banners and power armored shins.

Over a single world or system? Not likely. The Imperium's allocation of war assets to any given threat operates on a system of escalation. A problem which only engulfs/threatens one world will likely only flag as an issue for that one particular system Lord, who would be expected to use the resources at hand to deal with it. If the threat grows to engulf multiple systems within a sub-sector, then it becomes whoever's in charge of that sub-sector to handle it, and so on and so forth, going to sector-level, segmentum-level, etc.

Although, it also depends on the world/worlds. A major Forge, Fortress or Astartes homeworld for example would control significantly more war assets than an "average" Imperial system. Generally, I would say that an Imperial Crusade would only be launched with a specific goal or campaign in mind, and would warrant at least a sector-level threat, or failing that a very large and/or strategically important sub-sector.

Anfauglir's got the gist of it. The Imperium's response to any threats works on a level of escalation, with the exceptions relegating to worlds or systems that have some exceptional value (such as Armageddon, or a really important shrine world, etc), in which case the Imperium might roll out the full welcome wagon right from the beginning.

The general flow chart I've observed is: PDF ---> any Space Marines in the area who don't have gak to do ---> If there's no Astartes around or they don't have the numbers, call in a couple regiments --> if a couple regiments can't handle it, time to call in a Lord General and get a multi-regiment campaign going, possibly including Astartes support.

And from that point, you just add more and more regiments and chapters to the mix until you have enough bodies to win.

A Crusade is typically a massive effort involving billions of IG soldiers, potentially dozens of chapters, and a significant amount of naval assets.

They often last for decades or even centuries, reclaiming dozens of systems for the Imperium.

 Grey Templar wrote:
A Crusade is typically a massive effort involving billions of IG soldiers, potentially dozens of chapters, and a significant amount of naval assets.

They often last for decades or even centuries, reclaiming dozens of systems for the Imperium.

Nothing really new to add, but here is some background on some major crusades i can think of off the top of my head that may give you some inspiration:
Macharian Crusade
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Macharian_Crusade#.UXQt-Mpc2MU
Sabbat Worlds Crusade
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sabbat_Worlds_Crusade#.UXQuEcpc2MU
Damocles Gulf Crusade
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Damocles_Crusade#.UXQuWspc2MU

 uk_crow wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
A Crusade is typically a massive effort involving billions of IG soldiers, potentially dozens of chapters, and a significant amount of naval assets.

They often last for decades or even centuries, reclaiming dozens of systems for the Imperium.

Damocles Gulf Crusade
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Damocles_Crusade#.UXQuWspc2MU

Thats barely a crusade or a small crusade imo.

Now, the Achilus Crusade is a true crusade:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Achilus_Crusade#.UXUOzm1Wp3s

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 uk_crow wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
A Crusade is typically a massive effort involving billions of IG soldiers, potentially dozens of chapters, and a significant amount of naval assets.

They often last for decades or even centuries, reclaiming dozens of systems for the Imperium.

Damocles Gulf Crusade
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Damocles_Crusade#.UXQuWspc2MU

Thats barely a crusade or a small crusade imo.

Now, the Achilus Crusade is a true crusade:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Achilus_Crusade#.UXUOzm1Wp3s

Hah, yeah, was though of quickly. I've only briefly heard of the Achilus Crusade, didn't realise that it was such a large crusade, learn something new everyday!

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 uk_crow wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
A Crusade is typically a massive effort involving billions of IG soldiers, potentially dozens of chapters, and a significant amount of naval assets.

They often last for decades or even centuries, reclaiming dozens of systems for the Imperium.

Damocles Gulf Crusade
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Damocles_Crusade#.UXQuWspc2MU

Thats barely a crusade or a small crusade imo.

Now, the Achilus Crusade is a true crusade:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Achilus_Crusade#.UXUOzm1Wp3s

The Achilus Crusade, all things considered, could come down to around 500,000-750,000 guardsmen (depends on the size of the regiments), something like 1000-3000 Astartes (depending on the size and health of the companies/chapters in question), and about 2000 or so Sisters (depending on the size of the Missions).

Which is actually a rather disproportionate amount of Astartes all things considered. But it's still far more than the few thousand guardsmen, couple hundred space marines, and a small number of forces under a rogue trader, which made up the Damocles.

 Melissia wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 uk_crow wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
A Crusade is typically a massive effort involving billions of IG soldiers, potentially dozens of chapters, and a significant amount of naval assets.

They often last for decades or even centuries, reclaiming dozens of systems for the Imperium.

Damocles Gulf Crusade
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Damocles_Crusade#.UXQuWspc2MU

Thats barely a crusade or a small crusade imo.

Now, the Achilus Crusade is a true crusade:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Achilus_Crusade#.UXUOzm1Wp3s

The Achilus Crusade, all things considered, could come down to around 500,000-750,000 guardsmen (depends on the size of the regiments), something like 1000-3000 Astartes (depending on the size and health of the companies/chapters in question), and about 2000 or so Sisters (depending on the size of the Missions).

Which is actually a rather disproportionate amount of Astartes all things considered. But it's still far more than the few thousand guardsmen, couple hundred space marines, and a small number of forces under a rogue trader, which made up the Damocles.

huh. IIRC, 6 billion IG were thrown into the Jericho Reach. Will have to check, I can only give my answer tomorrow.

Remember, sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.

 Melissia wrote:
Remember, sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.

Yeah, I know. But how is that a response to my post? I mean 6 billion is better than the usual thousands or millions that we get.

I'm just saying that Games Workshop writers in general and Black Library authors in specific rarely actually think too hard about the numbers in their "massive battles".

FFG is guilty of this at times as well. Tranch has guardsmen deployed in waves of a quarter million, which should really make it a somewhat small war compared to the millions deployed in other conflicts.

 Melissia wrote:
I'm just saying that Games Workshop writers in general and Black Library authors in specific rarely actually think too hard about the numbers in their "massive battles".

Obviously.

Except it doesn't match with the number of regiments that GW says were deployed.

Unless some of those regiments contained 100 million soldiers each.


While tossing 6 billion soldiers at a warzone is well within the Imperium's capabilities as stated by GW, GW turns around and says only a few dozen regiments are deployed to a specific planet. Regiments that by their own fluff contain only between 1000 and 10,000 soldiers depending on regiment type.

Realistically, an Imperial Crusade to match the numbers of soldiers given would have to have several hundred thousand IG regiments.

So whenever GW or BL gives a number of regiments just multiply it by a hundred thousand.

Agreed on that, GT.

As I said, they have absolutely no sense of scale at all.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Except it doesn't match with the number of regiments that GW says were deployed.

Unless some of those regiments contained 100 million soldiers each.


While tossing 6 billion soldiers at a warzone is well within the Imperium's capabilities as stated by GW, GW turns around and says only a few dozen regiments are deployed to a specific planet. Regiments that by their own fluff contain only between 1000 and 10,000 soldiers depending on regiment type.

Realistically, an Imperial Crusade to match the numbers of soldiers given would have to have several hundred thousand IG regiments.

So whenever GW or BL gives a number of regiments just multiply it by a hundred thousand.

huh. Are you talking about The Achilus Crusade? Cause unless I missed something GW has nothing to do with the Achilus Crusade fluff.

I've considered sending in my own novel to BL, one with proper scale, just to show them how a real 40k novel should be scaled.

 Melissia wrote:
Agreed on that, GT.

As I said, they have absolutely no sense of scale at all.

To be fair to GW, so do a lot of other franchises.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I've considered sending in my own novel to BL, one with proper scale, just to show them how a real 40k novel should be scaled.

Do it.

Other franchises at least don't tend to try to have an empire of self-described "countless trillions" fight wars with only a few million soldiers.

Except Star Wars.

Galaxy spanning republic: has military of less than 5 million

Any one of the member planets could have raised an army many times that number, and the Separatists would have never had the numbers to take more than a few planets.

All this just says the SW universe is full of panzies

 Melissia wrote:


FFG is guilty of this at times as well. Tranch has guardsmen deployed in waves of a quarter million, which should really make it a somewhat small war compared to the millions deployed in other conflicts.

I know. I simply said that at least Achilus Crusade 6 billion number is better than a lot of past examples.

JWMarines wrote:
I was considering doing some color coordination or a little back story if such a collaboration would ever take place. If nothing else, rules-wise, I could go ahead and do the color coordinating just to facilitate ease of recognition in gameplay if I'm using any of the above as allies for the other. But I like to be fluffy and Doom Eagles are notoriously devout, so they kind of feel right along side GK and SoB, and maybe a particularly zealous IG battle group.

Crusades are ad hoc organizations, and the participating forces don't change their color scheme. They use a campaign badge to denote participation. If you're looking for a good reason to use a similar color scheme, perhaps they could all be forces that hail from the same sector, which has strong cultural associations of certain colors as martial. That would be plenty of justification for Marines and Guard to share an aesthetic. I don't know how Sisters are deployed, so I'm not sure it would apply to them.

If the deployment was from a series of historically linked minor orders it might work.

Otherwise, they'd use one of the six (sort of bland-ish) color schemes.

The problem when having massive numbers for Crusades and numbers in General, is that the Imperial Navy need to transport them. Thats no easy feat.

Also keep in mind that Taros, and a decent number of other worlds seem to have a localised population centre, being the planetary capital.

10;'000 men can control a mining world or agri world, etc by controlling the planetary capital and other strategic assets.

When you consider that Imperial Transport ships are monstrous, even larger than actual battleships, its no problem at all.

When a battleship has a crew of several hundred thousand you can imagine a ship made specifically to carry troops is going to be able to carry several million.

I think it's fair to say that you shouldn't bother trying to make sense of the 40k universe.

ITS REALLY SILLY

I enjoy the universe but its really dumb on every level

Not every level. If you suspend your disbelief for a few select assumptions everything makes sense. Its all about perspective.

Sure. But they have to be big assumptions. The creators of the 40k universe also had no sense of scale.

 Grey Templar wrote:
When you consider that Imperial Transport ships are monstrous, even larger than actual battleships, its no problem at all.

When a battleship has a crew of several hundred thousand you can imagine a ship made specifically to carry troops is going to be able to carry several million.

True, tho for a battleship to have a crew of several hundred thousand the author would have to ignore Andy Chambers statement of a good rule of thumb being 2000 crew per point of BFG damage (meaning a crew of 24,000 for a battleship).