Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

*I scrolled a bit, couldn't find anything directly pertaining to this subject. Please re-direct if there is a related thread.

I still have a lot to learn, but one thing I can't wrap my head around is closing the initial gap created by deployment. How can I get control of the game early on?

I'm really getting stuck in the middle. I don't want to willingly enter someone else's threat range, and they know better than to enter my threat range, so its this idiotic stand-off. As a circle player, can I use the Gnarlhorn to settle this? Using him, I should be able to enter someone's charge range and if they come after me, I can hit them with the ram.

I thought the other solution might be to use my longest ranged attacks to harass the enemy, and force them in. Druids could potentially pull in a model and I could enter melee that way.

Also, I don't see how the shifting stones can help me maneuver, except to push me further up the table initially. Does anyone use the stones' teleport ability to get into combat, or are they strictly for utility?

Thanks.

Well, with being Circle you're already outhreat-ing half the game by default with SPD6 heavies, especially on reach beasts.
*The stalker is a great beast with pathfinder & prowl you can use terrain to limit enemy options.
*Not only can druids push models, but clouds block LoS to things behind them. Swamp gobbers behave simliary.
*Look at Warcaster abilities like Warpath, Dogpile, Telekenises or Mirage. Properly utilized these can all fudge threat ranges.
*Stones give you angles for days, and the Druid Wayfer is a cheap way to charge an extra 2".
*If you simply *must* eat someone else's alpha strike, offer up a lower value target as bait and get a favorable trade.
EDIT: On the stones:
You can run up into them, then say teleport to the other side of a nearby wall if the opponent doesn't have pathfinder vectors on the target. You can teleport into melee with an isolated ranged unit that stands little chance of striking back. You charge in, hit them sprint back into the stones and the teleport out of their retaliation range.

Honestly "Ways to use stones to frustrate your opponent" is a thread unto itself. Heck you can even stop them to use enemy safety tricks like Admonition and Enliven dead in their tracks, or prevent counter charges.

EDIT: (Again) What caster(s) do you use, what does your typical list look like. Who is constantly getting the alpha strike off on you? What do you typically get in the trade?

I remember playing against a Krueger list where the guy just took stones and stone beasts and lightninged me... Seeing as this is quite like a circle thread, I thought I'd ask if people knew what this build was like?

I remember it being something like, standard Krueger, shifting stones and like 3 stone beasts but I can't for the life of me think what (there was a solo in there too but it was just a bonus)

Don't play caster kill. If there are objectives that need to be taken and held then that forces people to advance up the board and engage.

Ranged attacks tend to force your opponent to get in or get out. If you're a slow army without any ranged, you'll be forced to close with anyone who fields at least a little ranged.

With my slow Menoth, I have two ways of forcing the issue. Firstly, decent ranged attacks that mean the enemy can't play hang back without being pricked. Secondly, decent tarpit units to soak up the alpha strikes. Being a somewhat slow faction in general, being able to take a charge and then hit back is quite essential, and the opponent is forced to deal with the chaff which is now clogging the charge lanes.

Plus, if an enemy is just hanging back trying to get the perfect setup to charge, he's probably going to lose on scenario pretty quickly.

Chongara wrote:
EDIT: (Again) What caster(s) do you use, what does your typical list look like. Who is constantly getting the alpha strike off on you? What do you typically get in the trade?

Well, I'm a noob, and we're just getting started with a group of 40k guys. We like this game a lot so far, I think we're all pretty amped to build up a collection and keep playing.

I'm playing pKaya, and a I've been trying combinations of Stalker, Feral, Stones, Argus, Winter Argus, Druids and Druid Wilder. I'm looking into getting Blood Trackers next, I seem to be lacking in range, and the Blood Trackers look like a really killer unit anyway.

The last game I played was vs Legion, and his Canivean had a frighteningly easy time with his assassination run. I could have kept Kaya further back, that would have saved her, but I still ran into that problem where I didn't want to step into his threat circle. I decided the only way to get my charge was to stun the Carnivean with Spirit Fang, which worked. However, to protect Kaya after casting Spirit Fang, I moved the Feral to block LOS to her. The Carnivean advanced close enough to throw the Feral, and his support guys were able to then charge in for the kill.

I'm going to blame the whole thing on my lack of experience. That Carnivean is nasty though, and Occulation does nothing vs Legion. I really need to get my heaviest hitters to land their charges on models like the Carnivean, so I'm trying to figure out how.

I have a game vs Trollbloods coming up. I'm pretty sure I have that in the bag, since he's going all shooting and no melee. With Occulation on my warbeasts, it shouldn't be hard to walk up and land my charges. He'll adapt though, one trip back to the game store ...

Be careful though. Remember these two things 1) you can only stealth one thing at a time with occultation, and 2) if they're auto-missing because of stealth then the stealth model isn't blocking LOS

If you are only using pKaya then you are really getting a very narrow experience of what Circle can do. I mean there are a lot of ways of buffing your movement and we can get ridiculous charge ranges (BlackClad Wayfarer, Gnarlhorn Animus, eKaya's Dog Pile spell and the Feral's SPD warp immediately spring to mind) and they meld really well with pKaya or eKaya, but at the same time there are a lot of different styles that can help you close this gap, though they would require you changing your caster and playstyle.

Personally I really like eKaya more than her primal version. She is just far better with beasts in general though she has more extreme weaknesses. Although Laris' Spirit move is generally used as an escape route it can also be used as an assassination tool. Imagine Laris running up a flank 14" near a caster, Kaya spirit shifting to Laris and engaging and pulling her feat to bring all her warbeasts to surround the caster and ensure she can't get charged or walked into by anyone else. Pretty much game over unless the Warlock is a pure melee beatstick and can down Kaya (though with her defense at 18 from Laris and armour 16 from Unyielding she gets a lot tougher to crack). .

I also really love the playstyle of Kromac. It's pretty much sheer aggression. His spell list can help shut down a spell heavy caster and let you close the distance real fast, especially if you put Ghetorix in. He gets to their lines so fast it's it's scary and once he's there he starts regenerating the life he lost on the way in.

Why move up the board when you can pull them to you one piece at a time? That's how eKreuger plays. He gets a lot from channelling (Gallows Groves) and Geomancy (Woldwardens). Use Telekinesis to bring people forward and turn them around for back strike bonus while Gallows brings them even closer and softens them up for a charging heavy warbeast.

I know you said you are still a beginner so the best thing to do is just practise. Get a feel for the different casters and see which you like the best. Then fine tune your list and see what works and what doesn't. You lose a lot of games before you start winning, especially with Circle.

Best of luck.

quote=CaptObvious 521579 5516927 80a65e8088cc0c909f3d5a648c5956cd.jpg]*I scrolled a bit, couldn't find anything directly pertaining to this subject. Please re-direct if there is a related thread.

Hey a Circle discussion is fun!

I see alot of people have written a good deal of usefull tips here. I would like to add a few things (not sure if it has been mentioned before):

Shadowhorn Satyr: can be used as a bait with eKaya's Forced Evolution giving him DEF 15, +2 DEF against charge attacks and knocks down enemies missing with charge attacks. Enemy beasts and jacks will have to boost in order to have any chance of hitting and still risk being knocked down. Units or other models without ability to boost attack rolls will pretty much commit suicide if they charge him. The Shadowhorn can also be teleported up the field or go 6" + 5" jump to simply throw an enemy heavy jack or beast. Throw it towards your line and you could sacrifice a 7 pts beast for a much more valuable enemy.

Gnarlhorn Satyr: I really do like this beast, even though he is one of the weakest. I would just like to tell you, from experience, that his Counter Slam ability is mostly never going to happen. It looks awesome on paper, but there is so many things that mess it up. First you need to be able to move in a straight line from the center of your base directly towards the center of the enemy. And when your opponent is aware of this trick, it's easy to just run a cheap model in between as bait and blocker. Also if the Gnarlhorn is too close to the enemy and the enemy has reach, they could just charge or move within 2" of the Gnarlhorn and Counter Slam won't trigger. One very good thing about Counter Slam though is that it triggers even if an enemy model within 6" stays in the same place and moves 0". They need to sacrifice or otherwise skip their movement in order of not triggering Counter Slam. With pKaya Counter Slam works best in my opinion because the Gnarlhorn can not boost to hit outside activation. MAT 6 is not a good starting point even against low def enemies like 11 or 12. And his Counter Slam is quite critical to hit.

But what will help you alot is get a unit of 10 Wolves of Orboros. They have Reach and Pathfinder so you can always charge with 11" threat range. Spread them out across the board. Now the enemy must remove them before getting to your beasts. And they are so cheap so you can easily lose them without getting in trouble.

Shifting Stones are very good. If you keep one unit close to your front line, a beast far back can first be Shifted by a unit from safety far behind your lines to the front line unit. Then he can be Shifted again to get ca 10" into enemy lines. Shifting is "Within" and not "Completely Within". The difference is important. It gives the Shifted model extra distance equal to its base. For a heavy beast it is almost 2".