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 Alpharius wrote:
Did you watch the gameplay video yet?

It feels pretty... basic. The variation from game to game would seem to be limited to what you get from objectives and scenario, because it looks like there's a pretty easily derived 'best shot' most of the time. Command points should shake that up a bit, but I dunno - I am really interested in getting a hands on or a copy of the ruleset. Zentradi really need something beyond the Pods to make them interesting to play past 3-4 games I think.

I really hope they get the Male and Female armors through the KS. They've focused on the UEDF pretty heavily, but we need some more opfor!

If I were the producer of this game system, I would try to get the license for Macross Zero and make a game with SV-51 vs VF-0. By staying with Battletech, all the rest of the exciting models in Macross are excluded.

 IceRaptor wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Did you watch the gameplay video yet?

It feels pretty... basic. The variation from game to game would seem to be limited to what you get from objectives and scenario, because it looks like there's a pretty easily derived 'best shot' most of the time. Command points should shake that up a bit, but I dunno - I am really interested in getting a hands on or a copy of the ruleset. Zentradi really need something beyond the Pods to make them interesting to play past 3-4 games I think.

I really hope they get the Male and Female armors through the KS. They've focused on the UEDF pretty heavily, but we need some more opfor!

They did mention that they left out all of the 'advanced' rules though, which will include terrain and such.

So far, it looks OK, and that's with just the 2 troop types they've shown!

I watched the game play video. Looks pretty straight forward. I wonder what additional rules are in the advanced set besides terrain, etc. I wonder if they'll have ammo limits or some such thing. There were several instances in the show where the characters ran out of ammo during a battle. Now that the Monster is available...I'm looking forward to seeing Female Power armor, Max's VF-J or Miriya's VF-J. They were my favorite two characters in the show. I also can't wait to see the "Super" versions of the Veritechs and I wonder how much pwnage they can dish out to 5 hit point Regults. Hehe. One thing I wanted to see in the video is the rumored "full missile volley" where the unit blows it's full missile payload in one shot.

 Alpharius wrote:

They did mention that they left out all of the 'advanced' rules though, which will include terrain and such.

Yup. I'm reserving judgement until then, but that's my impression so far. I'm just concerned that the extra bits - like the artillery pods or super packs - won't really change the gameplay all that much, just give you more dakka or hits.

Which is why I really want the Male and Female power armors to unlock, dang it. Treating the Valkyries to a full missile salvo from the Female, or particle cannon blast (assuming it's like the Tomahawk's) would be awesome, and they theoretically are more durable than the pods. It's basically the same choices the UEDF have now between the Valks and the Destroids; if you only had the Valks to choose from (in one mode, no less) that would get old fast, I think.

wildger wrote:
If I were the producer of this game system, I would try to get the license for Macross Zero and make a game with SV-51 vs VF-0. By staying with Battletech, all the rest of the exciting models in Macross are excluded.

...What?

wildger wrote:
If I were the producer of this game system, I would try to get the license for Macross Zero and make a game with SV-51 vs VF-0. By staying with Battletech, all the rest of the exciting models in Macross are excluded.

You do know that Harmony Gold cannot get the license for Macross' sequel series, right? Big West/Tatsunoko refuse to allow them access to it and for good reason. Macross is a separate entitiy from Robotech, so you will never see VF-0s, SV-51s, VF-17s, VF-25s, etc. in Robotech. That being said, I'm surprised HG has basically done nothing to expand Robotech themselves. Best we got was Shadow Chronicles and an incomplete and generally reviled Sentinels.

Wait so they've been sitting on it this whole time? Doing nothing?!

 Spartan-Kun wrote:
Wait so they've been sitting on it this whole time? Doing nothing?!

Harmony Gold created the Shadow Chronicles, which take place after the Invid Invasion. They are (IMO) a horrible hack-job on what McKinney wrote. I don't know that I want HG doing anything more with the license, for fear of how badly they will screw it up.

I watched the shadow chornicles movie. It wasn't too bad. Just confusing.

 Spartan-Kun wrote:
I watched the shadow chornicles movie. It wasn't too bad. Just confusing.

The combat animations were pretty lazy. Instead of actually animating the fighters at times, they simply zoomed around the static model in 3rd person perspective to give the feel of movement when nothing on the mech model actually moved. I'm not talking about tiny veritechs in the distance either but scenes where the entire focus is on a major character mech. Visually, shadow chronicles was very disappointing in terms of mechporn.

Curse you, whoever posted that link to the Robotech episodes on YouTube. I've watched the first few of them, and it actually is pretty good. There is some really bad animation, and some strange gaps in logic at times, but it still manages to be pretty interesting.

On top of that, I happened to be looking at the Kickstarter page and saw an open Early Bird spot for the boxed game, which sucked me in. I definitely want Rick and Roy, so now I'm at $100 for them plus the boxed game. I'm hoping they double the Gnerl fighter add on, then maybe I'd grab a unit of those. But there's a lot of time left still, so who knows what other cool stuff they will have by the end.

Albino Squirrel wrote:
I'm hoping they double the Gnerl fighter add on

Looks pretty likely!

Indeed. They seem to be following a stretch goal pattern of adding a new unit, then adding a freebie to either the core game or blitzkrieg level, and then adding more value to an existing stretch. The doubling of gnerls to 4 for $20 seems to be the next goal.

Regarding the balance of Add-Ons and freebies, I've been pretty pleased with the balance so far. I want them to have some financial success with the game, and I understand why some of the main new content is purchasable (such as the MAC II).

In truth, I didn't throw money down until I got what I wanted for the asking price. Which, for me, happened with Roy Fokker. The value point for me was at Battle Cry when it hit 260K. Don't get me wrong, I'll take the Stretch Bonuses, but I see them as bonuses. I won't grumble over dice and a Recon Pod, because hey...free dice and a Recon Pod!!! That said, other folks have more experience with KS, and perhaps less nostalgic attraction to Robotech. They may not feel the 140 bones Battle Cry is worth it yet. I get that. I've even thrown some extra money in the pot to account for the add-ons I know I want (the Long prints, an extra Rick and Roy, the Spartan pack). And I'll be happy to put more in if they make add-ons I want. I have no doubt the main box will get some more good stuff, and I have no doubt I'm going to have to pay for some of what I am waiting for (namely the Male and Female PA and the different Veritech options...I'm hoping the latter are Stretch goals for the baseline and expecting the PA to be Add-Ons, but we will see).

Anyways, it is all Christmas going forward.

Albino Squirrel wrote:
Curse you, whoever posted that link to the Robotech episodes on YouTube. I've watched the first few of them, and it actually is pretty good. There is some really bad animation, and some strange gaps in logic at times, but it still manages to be pretty interesting.

One of the problems with macross is that it was animated by 3 different teams. Most of the animation is of decent-but-not-great TV quality, but some of it was given to a team of student animators and the drop in quality for those parts is extremely noticeable. But, there were some sequences done by a 3rd team of expert animators and the quality of those scenes is astonishing, nearly OVA quality. The space combat scenes from when the SDF-1 makes it back to earth (battlecry, I think is the episode) still stand up to stuff coming out today. As for gaps in logic, well, yeah. There's no getting around the space tuna. Or retrieving the space tuna from the vacuum of space with only a scarf wrapped around your open faced helmet. Just shut your brain off and enjoy cool robots blowing each other up.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
...Now that the Monster is available...I'm looking forward to seeing Female Power armor, Max's VF-J or Miriya's VF-J.

I don't understand the people clamoring for these kinds of thing. They're VF-1Js. We're already getting VF-1Js, they're a thing. You can order extras. Just paint one blue and paint another red. There was absolutely nothing special about Rick's or Max's or Miriya's or Ben's VF-1Js, they just had different paint schemes. What we need is figures that aren't in yet, like the Zentraedi power armors/infantry, artillery Battle Pods, VF-1Ds, super veritechs, armored veritechs etc.

 Kalamadea wrote:
I don't understand the people clamoring for these kinds of thing. They're VF-1Js. We're already getting VF-1Js, they're a thing. You can order extras. Just paint one blue and paint another red. There was absolutely nothing special about Rick's or Max's or Miriya's or Ben's VF-1Js, they just had different paint schemes. What we need is figures that aren't in yet, like the Zentraedi power armors/infantry, artillery Battle Pods, VF-1Ds, super veritechs, armored veritechs etc.

Well except for the facts that they have different stats, boosts, and poses you can't make without serious modifications.

But yea, other than that, they're totally the same as a stock VF-1J.

Yes, I also want the other stuff too, especially the Arty Pods, Super/Armored VT's, and armored infantry.

Next goal is up... 3 Gnerls for the price of 2 at 375k.

So the next stretch goal is going from 2 Zentrati fighters to 3



Which kind of makes me wonder how they're doing the sprues. As we all know making a plastic mold costs a lot, let's say $50k so you want cram as much as you can onto it. Including additional sprues is cheap, the cost of the plastic + labor.

So I wonder, does this mean we'll get 3 sprues of fighters instead of 2, or is this is a fake out, the sprues already held 3 fighters and we would have gotten that anyway.

Ah maybe I'm too suspicious, this KS has been going like gangbusters and they've added something every day or two.

Also does anyone know if this can/will include Palladiums own stuff? In later books they added their own mechs to Robotech Macross. None of them were all that great but I wonder if they even can include them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TalonZahn wrote:

 Kalamadea wrote:
I don't understand the people clamoring for these kinds of thing. They're VF-1Js. We're already getting VF-1Js, they're a thing. You can order extras. Just paint one blue and paint another red. There was absolutely nothing special about Rick's or Max's or Miriya's or Ben's VF-1Js, they just had different paint schemes. What we need is figures that aren't in yet, like the Zentraedi power armors/infantry, artillery Battle Pods, VF-1Ds, super veritechs, armored veritechs etc.

Well except for the facts that they have different stats, boosts, and poses you can't make without serious modifications.

But yea, other than that, they're totally the same as a stock VF-1J.

Yes, I also want the other stuff too, especially the Arty Pods, Super/Armored VT's, and armored infantry.

I think the pose thing is the important one. Assuming there are rules for Max and other special characters in the rule book then any VT can be painted blue and count as Max.

But the renders we've seen for the VTs have limited poses so a new battloid in a cool pose would have added value.

Which again makes me wonder how they're doing sprues. Unless it's one mech per sprue it makes no sense to do a sprue for just Max, or Rick, or Roy. A sprue with 3 or more special characters would make more sense.

KK, those very ideas are being brought up in the comments section.

IMHO, another weak stretch.

Want my money? Drop the +1 Gnerl into the $140 pledge box, and tell me I need 3 for a squad.

Guess what, I drop another $20.

Although it is climbing at a steady rate and will surely end well, the average backer is around $175, or basically the $140 box + 1 Add-on. Their money appears to be coming from new people pledging and not the current backers dumping more money into the KS. Weak stretches like this, again IMHO, take the wind out of the sails and don't create buzz.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So I wonder, does this mean we'll get 3 sprues of fighters instead of 2, or is this is a fake out, the sprues already held 3 fighters and we would have gotten that anyway.

Ah maybe I'm too suspicious, this KS has been going like gangbusters and they've added something every day or two.

Also does anyone know if this can/will include Palladiums own stuff? In later books they added their own mechs to Robotech Macross. None of them were all that great but I wonder if they even can include them.

Nah, there is a good chance that is exactly how they planned it. They "unlocked" zentraedi dice when they're clearly shown in the preview video posted on day 1. I don't have a problem with stretch goals unlocked extra value in previously added add-ons like some people do from the comments as long as the freebie goals are worthwhile now that the dice are out of the way. I don't think the molds are actually made yet as they seem to be tweaking models and their poses still so I doubt anyone outside of Ninja or Palladium will ever know.

Another thought on sprues, unlike say a 40k sprue they can't fill empty space with skulls, pouches and other stuff.

But they could fill it with small vehicles (APCs, cars etc) and debris (scraps of mechs, piles of rubble).

This would be an easy way to add value which, other than the design time would not add much to costs (just pennies for the additional plastic).

Sigh, I need to pledge soon...

Away with thee pesky will power.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Another thought on sprues, unlike say a 40k sprue they can't fill empty space with skulls, pouches and other stuff.

But they could fill it with small vehicles (APCs, cars etc) and debris (scraps of mechs, piles of rubble).

This would be an easy way to add value which, other than the design time would not add much to costs (just pennies for the additional plastic).

Sigh, I need to pledge soon...

Away with thee pesky will power.

Or even zentraedi armored infantry... That would make for great filler. As Harmony Gold seems to be making Palladium stick to the anime much more than they did the last time around, there isn't much wiggle room in this compared with 40k. You can't just *poof* invent a new Predator variant every time the new codex comes out no matter how cool the Gnarly Gnerl transport variant may be.

Even after my little sunshine post, I admit it is tough to get excited about a +1 to a unit most people were not clamoring for. I don't mind stretch goals I'm not interested in...I just want goals that somebody will be interested in. But as has been pointed out, there is still almost the full four weeks to go. I assume they have planned this out to some level, and know how to balance the vegetables and the sweets.

I tend to agree that Max and Miriya are worthwhile additions. Just for the posing options...assuming that character models have dynamic and unique poses. Worth it for those of us as interested in the visual side of it as with the gaming side.

 dienekes96 wrote:
Even after my little sunshine post, I admit it is tough to get excited about a +1 to a unit most people were not clamping for. I don't mind stretch goals I'm not interested in...I just want goals that somebody will be interested in. But as has been pointed out. Still almost the full four weeks to go. I assume they have planned this out to some level, and know how to balance the vegetables and the sweets.

I tend to agree that Max and Miriya are worthwhile additions. Just for the posing options...assuming that characters have dynamic and unique poses. Worth it for those of us as interested in the visual side of it as with the gaming side.

Don't get me wrong above.. I'm defending the goal because I don't think it deserves the hate that its getting but that doesn't mean I think it's a good goal overall. It's great for people who are already interested in getting a gnerl but otherwise is a bit meh. The thing I'd be most worried about is the kickstarter largely stalling as a result of too many goals in a row not adding free value to the blitzkrieg+ pledge level. If the next one isn't a good freebie that people have been clamoring for (free artillery bits upgrade sprues for regults or even free complete artillery models at blitzkrieg and up for instance), that might be an issue. With paid goal followed by mediocre "free" upgrade that had been planned all along followed by paid goal upgrade, we need a good freebie next if they want to keep the stretch goal a day pace that the KS has had.

Yeah, the fighters aren't exactly blowing me away, but with this much time left I figure it's okay to sort through some chaff to get to the real golden wheat we all know is in there.

As for Max and Miriya, I think it'd be awesome to have their Battloids posed fighting back to back, as they do in one of the combat sequences near the end of the first series. A cursory google search isn't coming up with anything, but I'm sure someone knows the scene I'm talking about.

The rate of roughly 100 people and 22-27k or so per day has kept steady thus far, but it is still early. Hopefully we'll get this next one knocked out tomorrow (or early Friday at the latest) and can go into the weekend with something to sink our teeth into (collectively) around the 400k mark.

Edit: hell, even dropping to 10k per day would still push them over 600k total, which would presumably be another half dozen or dozen goals (depending on how they were spaced), which is room even at a conservative pace for most of the 'base' stuff people seem to want to be in the box or at least available.

And we all know that last day or two will be bonkers.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
This would be an easy way to add value which, other than the design time would not add much to costs (just pennies for the additional plastic).

Tooling for those extra bits costs many times more than the little design time that they would spend on it. It would be neat...but it isn't something that would not add much to the costs by any means.

Warboss, I agree. I'm not arguing for or against it, and I'm certainly not decrying it as the end of the Robotech Tactics party. I do think the next 30K may be a winding road, for the reasons you just said.

Were it my decision, I'd advertise multiple Stretch goals at any given time: the next Add-On at $X, the next upgrade at $Y, and the next Add-On upgrade at $Z. Of the three forthcoming goals, one of them is bound to be more exciting (like the MAC), right? But I don't know what I'm talking about, admittedly.

Separate note. The previous UEDF dice were in addition to the Battle dice already included. The wording on the Zent dice makes it look like they *replace* the battle dice. Which is ok. I have dice coming out of ears. But I want free dice!

See, I'm happy about the gnerl upgrade because I really need variety in this game, I can't just have the same units en masse, so getting 3 gnerls instead of just 2 is definitely a sell for me getting that add-on. If they had made it 4, like they did with the destroids, it would be an absolute no-brainer.

 warboss wrote:
The thing I'd be most worried about is the kickstarter largely stalling as a result of too many goals in a row not adding free value to the blitzkrieg+ pledge level. If the next one isn't a good freebie that people have been clamoring for (free artillery bits upgrade sprues for regults or even free complete artillery models at blitzkrieg and up for instance), that might be an issue. With paid goal followed by mediocre "free" upgrade that had been planned all along followed by paid goal upgrade, we need a good freebie next if they want to keep the stretch goal a day pace that the KS has had.

I tried pounding this across in the comments section and, well... it's the internet right?

Stretches like this add value for some, but not for all. If they want to keep their pace, they need to appeal to new backers via overall value as well as current backers to give more.

My example was a 30k stretch for a +1 Gnerl to a purchased add-on would not generate as much influx as a 50k for a +2 Artillery Pod free add-on to the boxed set.

People are basically telling them what they want and how to get them to give Palladium more money.

I think they should follow that trail.

[Edit] @ Recruittons - I agree to a point, but if the +1 went into the box it would add value to the box and drive more people to drop $20 for the 2 pack. Same end reward, and would most likely make more money for them by getting people to buy the add-on. Right now they are after the $20, why not go after the $140 + the $20?