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Right. I am more concerned about that younger audience being interested at all.

My local attempts at drumming up interest in the wargaming scene here have left me worried. Granted I am in what amounts to a tiny slice of the wargaming world but the total lack of interest in the subject matter from players that otherwise get overly excited about games like dropzone commander really has me thinking about the future of the game.

The legalities were mentioned as they do restrict the IP in scope, not so much about swaying opinions.

Edit: Warboss, dont forget about the macross fans who are still getting screwed by HGs deathgrip on macross merchandise here in the states. I had to buy a bootleg copy of Macross DYRL just to try to drum ip interest amongst my friends because there is no official nonhacked release in the US. The macross fans still give a rats ass as they can't get anything easily.

They may be interested in some areas and in others they may not necessarily. I ran an x-wing game this past weekend and brought an old battlepod toy with me along with printouts of the kickstarter pledge levels (basically the first post here in this thread) to see if there was any interest. About a dozen people total asked about the zentraedi pod and about half of them seemed interested in the kickstarter, 3 of them seriously. Two of those really interested were 18-20 years olds that really surprised me as I didn't expect interest from them (the rest of those interested were 30+). They had watched the reruns on the cartoon network a decade ago (similar to how I watched the original run 25+ years ago) and said they'd get in on it. One of them took the info sheet and literally went to call his dad right away to ask for the money, lol. There is hope even with the younger crowd but it certainly won't be universal.

I really hope that at the very least we see a niche market that lasts grow from this. Spending thousands of dollars (as getting into any wargame on a serious level will end up) in the name of nostalgia when you can't find other players is always sad.

I just see the game having to jump over hurdles in a crowded market that most of the competition doesn't even have to consider.

I'm right there with you. I got back into heavy gear (used to play a decade earlier) and only then found out that no one did play and apparently wanted to play despite my demo attempts (that is one reason why I brought the battlepod in the first place to gauge the interest). At least with this kickstarter, you don't need to invest thousands of dollars unless you want every major army from every era (so 6 different forces). I'm not planning on going over $210 with this kickstarter personally despite my interest as that level will likely give me the variety and number of units I need to run an average game providing the figs for both sides if needed. If there ends up being an active group at the FLGS, I'll buy more but not until then. You're worrying about way too much way too early. If you're really not confident about your local scene picking this up, don't go in above the battlecry pledge or just stick to the core box to be really safe.

Swabby wrote:
So aside from the legal concerns that will never go away with this franchise and tbe involvement of some unsavory businesses that will be getting my trickle down money I am still excited about this project.

In that excitement I have been trying to get some of my other wargaming friends interested. Over the weekend I tried to show a friend Macross: Do you remember love? as a test. I figured it was the least dated animation from the old Macross days and would be the most visually interesting as an introduction.

He hated it. I cannot even imagine trying to show him (and others) the robotech series with the major plot inconsitencies and errors if even the flagship macross anime from back in the day falls flat on a younger audience.

This leads me to the point of this post. How is this game ever going to grow in a very crowded market with a new audience? I kind of think this is just going to end up a beloved niche game that I am rarely if ever going to find players for.

This will be a very hard sell to newcomers I think.

I agree, as a brand Robotech is a bit long in the tooth and tainted by years of legal headaches. So it may not have much appeal outside of aging fans.

BUT, then again there is the mecha designs which are pretty damn good. I daresay some good cover art with Veritechs or Destroids can still some boxes to people who never even heard of Robotech or Macross.

But then again didn't someone a few pages back say F-14s are dated

Broke my heart...

Does anyone have an approximate retail price on the boxed game and the MkII Monster when they are finally released to stores? I'm guessing $100 and $50? (the former based on Fantasy Flight ameritrash and the upper limit people will likely pay for a starter box)

I'm not just worried about my local scene though. Obviously finding games locally is a huge factor, however I am mainly concerned about the long term prospects for the game overall.

Limited content (not being able to just up and invent new macross era content for example) and and the inability legally to bring anything new to the table is a serious challenge over the long term for any game. I realise they have an absolute ton of content to work with but once they finish with preexisting (assuming we even get there) content thats it.

And yes, I am worrying about this way too much too early but I have been burned by the companies involved (ninja division aside) more times than I can count across a few fictional universes.

Don't get me wrong, the 9 year old in me wants nothing more than to see this succeed and be playing epic recreations of my favorite scenes as well as new and interesting uncharted scenarios. I am just trying to be realistic and skeptical so I don't set myself or others up for yet another expensive burn from mostly the same companies.

 Fugazi wrote:
Does anyone have an approximate retail price on the boxed game and the MkII Monster when they are finally released to stores? I'm guessing $100 and $50? (the former based on Fantasy Flight ameritrash and the upper limit people will likely pay for a starter box)

No, they commented about the add ons and said they're priced cheaper than retail here (and they put special emphasis on the MACII as much cheaper) but they didn't comment about the core box to my knowledge.

 warboss wrote:

 Fugazi wrote:
Does anyone have an approximate retail price on the boxed game and the MkII Monster when they are finally released to stores? I'm guessing $100 and $50? (the former based on Fantasy Flight ameritrash and the upper limit people will likely pay for a starter box)

No, they commented about the add ons and said they're priced cheaper than retail here (and they put special emphasis on the MACII as much cheaper) but they didn't comment about the core box to my knowledge.

Thanks. I know the battlecry level is great for value, but I only want a handful of these things, and I'm trying to figure out if it'd be cheaper to wait for retail discounted either by FLGS or online.

They've never said how much cheaper so your guess is as good as mine... whether 1 cent or $10 per add on... who knows. I'd assume the MACII is cheaper than the typical 20% off online from their comment but that's just a slightly less wild guess.

If you just want the box game (and are in the USA) it's probably going to be cheaper to pick it up at retail

(based on Zombicide, Sedition Wars, Dreadball etc)

If you start adding on extras (or feel you need the extra basic sculpts) then the KS is the place to be.

So the games you listed... how were their kickstarter core starter box prices compared with retail? I'd expect the KS price to be cheaper than full retail by $10-20 but not necessarily cheaper than you can get online from discount stores.

sedition wars $100 (with extras) or $80 (basic box) KS, MRSP $90

Dreadball $100 (with extras) or $80 (basic box only), MRPS $90

Zombicide $100 (with extras) or $75 (basic box) MRSP $90

if you'd bought the basic box sets at discount online retailers you could have saved about $10-30 on games with an MRSP of $90

although you might have had to add something else to hit free shipping from the cheapest places, and I suspect some places did not actually get may in as they offer cheap prices but always seem to be sold out

personally the extras that came with/are still to come with Sedition Wars & Dreadballs $100 levels more than made up for the saving (I didn't get Zombicide)

The other factor, especially for one who has no interest in the game, is the likely availability of miniatures on ebay and similar outlets afterward.

Since the Kickstarter is funded and $550,000 in the black, I'd say your concerns about financial viability are unfounded.

You'll get the miniatures, and you'll get to play with them. It's not going to be as popular as say, Warhammer, but what is, really?

Is it going to be a niche game that appeals chiefly to the nostalgia of twenty-somethings who watched Robotech all those years ago and were absolutely floored? Yes.

Do these twenty somethings have disposable income? Clearly they do. People have been wanting a Robotech miniatures game for a very, very long time.

I don't think DYRL is a good intro to the series, something flashy like Macross Zero or Macross Plus is probably better.

Robotech was awesome in its day- how often do you have genocide on morning television? To newer audiences jaded by mass-killing in everyday video games, probably less so.

I can't really think of a modern series that really blends military aviation with ridiculous space opera as well, however. Battlestar Galactica is the closest contender, but that's played itself out.

I have to say that enthusiasm is far more subdued here in England, because Robotech was never syndicated here and hence no one has fond childhood memories of it (much less any knowledge of it).

I recall being a twenty something, lol....

I would venture that the people really dropping the cash are actually late 30 to 40 somethings from the first time it was on T.V. in the 80's.

If you're in the US, you can get Sedition Wars on amazon for about $57, at the moment, with free shipping. A pretty darn good deal and tempting.

I for one am 24 myself and I LOVE Robotech. Then again I have been in love with the Tomcat and was sad taht when I joined the Navy that they had cycled it out. . . Or that the Jolly Rodger squadron was disbanded. I for one will be drumming up interestin this.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Since the Kickstarter is funded and $550,000 in the black, I'd say your concerns about financial viability are unfounded.

I'm talking long term. The kickstarter will be good to get the game off the ground but if the FLGS doesn't see sales it gets pulled from the shelf, usually never to return. I actually kind of see the kickstarter as working against the FLGS long term considering the limited audience this game is going to have.

Macross Zero would have been a better start, but funny thing, it is also not available in the US easily due to Harmony Golds shenanigans. The DYRL bootleg was available on Amazon cheap and fast. After watching it again for the first time in probably 15 years I wouldn't have started someone off like that. I do have to say though, part of me would feel pretty dirty for turning someone onto Robotech using Macross Zero after everything that has gone on.

I'm normally extremely optimistic about new releases, and I have wanted macross mini's long enough that I have a fairly large collection of battletech unseen, but given the shaky foundation behind this game I am both skeptical and worried about its future. One more Robotech related failure similar to the sentinels will pretty much swing me to swearing off Robotech altogether and regulate me to importing bootlegs of Macross and cursing HG for the rest of my really expensive fanboy life.

Swabby wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Since the Kickstarter is funded and $550,000 in the black, I'd say your concerns about financial viability are unfounded.

I'm talking long term. The kickstarter will be good to get the game off the ground but if the FLGS doesn't see sales it gets pulled from the shelf, usually never to return. I actually kind of see the kickstarter as working against the FLGS long term considering the limited audience this game is going to have.

Macross Zero would have been a better start, but funny thing, it is also not available in the US easily due to Harmony Golds shenanigans. The DYRL bootleg was available on Amazon cheap and fast. After watching it again for the first time in probably 15 years I wouldn't have started someone off like that. I do have to say though, part of me would feel pretty dirty for turning someone onto Robotech using Macross Zero after everything that has gone on.

I'm normally extremely optimistic about new releases, and I have wanted macross mini's long enough that I have a fairly large collection of battletech unseen, but given the shaky foundation behind this game I am both skeptical and worried about its future. One more Robotech related failure similar to the sentinels will pretty much swing me to swearing off Robotech altogether and regulate me to importing bootlegs of Macross and cursing HG for the rest of my really expensive fanboy life.

What does the FLGS have to do with it? The game is being sold to customers direct, and a guaranteed income of $550,000 is far more than what most small run miniature game companies make over years. Kickstarter is a brilliant way to get a product into your hands, without all the fuss and fail of imperfect information: i.e. figuring out your market and supply and demand.

A miniatures game is exactly that; a limited print run of toys. Whether people play it in the future will depend wholly upon how good the game is, and how interested people are in Robotech. Considering 25 years later people are still excited for a Robotech miniatures game, I'd say interest runs deep.

I'm still not sure entirely what 'future' you're thinking of. You pay money to the Kickstarter, you get the miniatures. The only concern should be if they can deliver on their kickstarter goals.

Guys, while I don't necessarily agree with swabby, I do see where he's coming from. He's talking about future longevity of the game in terms of expansions and minis for this era beyond what will likely be offered in the kickstarter. There is no "future" in that sense unless Harmony Gold kisses and makes up with the Japanese creators. They can't apparently come up with storm ravens out of the blue like space marines in 40k recently did... or Tau Riptide monstrocities like GW just did as well. I would like to see some macross zero and VF-4 or even Macross 2 offerings but I don't expect to nor do I honestly feel I need them... my game will be complete for the forseeable future with just the macross offerings personally let alone the next 1.5 years worth of the other sagas. That doesn't mean that I see that inability to add new units to be a positive thing.

While the kickstarter will satisfy a lot of demand for robotech (at the detriment of the rest of the hobby ecosystem like stores), you run the risk of alienating those stores by filling such a significant portion of the demand and profit before they get a chance to get a piece of the pie. In the end, the game will likely always be available from palladium direct for the duration of their robotech license just like you can buy their stale offering of dated RPG books. People who want to get robotech will have an avenue to get it even if stores decide not to carry it in general (and my local store doesn't stock much kickstarted stuff because when they did dip their toes in the pool the sales were much too cold). It's anecdotal of course but I doubt it's a unique situation.

That is essentially what I was getting at. Thank you Warboss.

I figure to run the game at some Cons and play sone home games moee than flgs action. Also if they do get the super veritechs I'm so painting one up like Jetfire from Transformers.

 dalsiandon wrote:
I figure to run the game at some Cons and play sone home games moee than flgs action. Also if they do get the super veritechs I'm so painting one up like Jetfire from Transformers.

Best transformer ever! Hands down! And he was a transport to boot!

I was thinking of painting one up with pink paneling and find 1/285 anime decals to make it look like one of the 1/250 messiah Valkyrie. Could use her/him (heck it's 2013) as squad ldr. As an alternative, paint up veritechs as axis or allies. Same with battlepods, then have them go at it. Dam I've been playing 40k to long that I'm thinking of changing up the paint jobs from the show. Next will be conversion ideas.lol

Since a veritech in B mode is as tall as a crises suit and dreadnought, I can just imagine tau players using veritech bits for their CS. Don't forget the one guy who will use whole veritech model as his CS. I hope I'm not that guy.lol Who knows maybe it could work. Use a vf-1J or A head bits on the riptide.

Sadly the Battloids are about 1.4" small to the Crisis suits, where as the Broadsides (old ones) were 3.5" the Crisis suits are about 3" and at 42mm (1.653") the Battloids are just to tiny, NOW Firewarriors as Battloids ARE a thing though. . . and some custom versions of the Suits/Battloids mix should also work, if nothing else a 3d printer or Shapeways would work as well!

That said Invid and Alpha/Beta Veritechs would be amazing. I always thought the Invid were a far better foe than the Zentradi, design and lore-wise.

Cypher-xv wrote:

 dalsiandon wrote:
I figure to run the game at some Cons and play sone home games moee than flgs action. Also if they do get the super veritechs I'm so painting one up like Jetfire from Transformers.

Best transformer ever! Hands down! And he was a transport to boot!

That's because he was a repackaged Bandai/Takatoku VF-1S Super Valkyrie 1/55 scale toy.

That's right! We all know why they had to change it lawsuits an all. We're not to far from an update or laminated cards.

 judgedoug wrote:

Cypher-xv wrote:

 dalsiandon wrote:
I figure to run the game at some Cons and play sone home games moee than flgs action. Also if they do get the super veritechs I'm so painting one up like Jetfire from Transformers.

Best transformer ever! Hands down! And he was a transport to boot!

That's because he was a repackaged Bandai/Takatoku VF-1S Super Valkyrie 1/55 scale toy.

Hence my plan.

Added the Male Power Armor, MAC II, and Gnerls to my pledge!