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For the 1% that can't get over Max an Miriya gate (nice one Forar), today's your last chance and ask for them. It's the last day for ordering grab bags. That's how I got mine.

Albeit I'm not Mike and don't have the benefit trying it out in person, I'd agree that a large skirmish scale (bigger than infinity and HG... smaller than 40k) model count seems about right for a 2 hour game. While I do enjoy larger games on occasion, I've had the bad luck of not being able to finish them over the past year outside of x-wing. My 40k games of 2000pts+ have all ended on turn 3 either because the setup took so long and we ran out of (open store) time... or the game was so lopsided and the outcome was obvious.

We're all (including Mike at least pre-NDA) are working from early incomplete versions of the rules and army building but even the small breadcrumbs they gave us had some concerns. I didn't see any way of ever using a VF-1J in their published skirmish rules. A simple fix is to add a J support card which I suggested on multiple sites but we'll have to see if anyone listened. I have trouble believing that no one at either Palladium or Ninja Division (both supposedly fans of robotech) realized that in the small skirmish scale game you couldn't emulate the most important small scale squadron in all of macross, vermillion squadron, but that was and possibly still is the case. That is just one of several reasons I want the rules posted and vetted for massive DERP that usually accompanies a Palladium release.

My ultimate goal isn't my own personal perfect minis game like Mike said but rather to be able to use my battlecry minis in some logical fashion. I admit that is subjective but I don't feel that adding in "everything that isn't a battlepod" into one squad fits that bill and that's what I'll have to do (again.. according to the snippets they gave us while we were still pledging) without a skirmish mode. YMMV. Both because of my battlecry pledge and for painting sanity, I'd like to be able to field two 3-veritech squadrons (2 A, 1J), two destroid squadrons, and one "special" squadron (some combo of supers, ghosts, whatever) for demos.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
For the 1% that can't get over Max an Miriya gate (nice one Forar), today's your last chance and ask for them. It's the last day for ordering grab bags. That's how I got mine.

That's if they have enough left over. Spending $65-75 for a grab bag on the chance of getting one is pretty underwhelming unless one also wanted a bunch of the books/signed stuff. According to their statements back around Gencon, they might have M&M for sale on their online shop some day, so I think I'll hold off and see if that ever comes to fruition. Simply don't need them badly enough to either pay 2-3 times the asking price for one (along with a bunch of books to add to the pile I'm already trying to get rid of).

But I wish anyone who takes that gamble luck. As Cypher here can attest, it is possible to get them through this offer.

As for the skirmish game, perhaps we're not supposed to be able to use 1J's in the skirmish. Not sure if the Elite cards can be attached to a skirmish game either, so there are other units that might never show up in a skirmish, like the MAC II. Depends on whether or not they want to make the skirmish a simple/quick demo-style '75 points, 1-2 'cards', maybe a cheap character or upgrade' that people can set up and finish in an hour or so, as opposed to the 300 point 'hour long games' that will presumably be more like 2-3 hours between newer players and possibly requiring extra set up time.

I mean, hell, I'm expecting Max to be 50+ points of ass kicking all on his own. It may be that Vermillion squadron simply wouldn't fit in a small scale game. :-P

Edit: that said, it probably wouldn't take a lot of testing to figure out a fair 'cost' for adding a 1J to a pair of 1A's. Obviously the Leadership attribute would be huge, but in theory 3A's and 1J are equal in points to 4A's.

Or we've already broken the game. >.>

Or J's are so good they essentially cost, say, 35 points and 1As are more like 15 each and a standard squadron of 4 is 'correctly' priced and the 1A squad upgrades are overpriced by a bit.

vOv

Some day we may know.

Someday.

Late edit: on further thought, they did use a VT squad with a 1J in the demos, so I might be more correct about them being available in some fashion than not.

I'd rather not have to EITHER never use 1/4 of my valkyries OR house rule the game from day one in one of the two basic game modes (and the one that specifically I prefer). I don't feel like I should do either to use what comes in the starter box. YMMV.

Oh, I agree. I'm just spitballing like we usually do, 'cause we probably won't know for another half a year, and it's more interesting to ponder the 'what ifs' than contemplate how much work would be necessary to kickstart being able to slap someone through the internet for excessive fanboyism and white knighting.

'Cause man, Palladium die hard fans are a special bunch.

Palladium fandom surpassed die hard long ago and can cut through Wolverine's bones like a hot knife through butter.

In all honesty (and pessimism), I expect them to drop the skirmish mode altogether to encourage larger model sales.

It'd be interesting to see the debate on that.

Sure, it reduces the likelihood that someone just buys one box of everything and plays tiny games with their friends.

But the skirmish could also act as the 'gateway drug' to picking up the full version. All it'd take is one appealing tournament that needs 150/300+ points of figures, or some good games with friends where escalation begins as people buy into more and more stuff.

I've seen this with Magic countless times; people start with "let's just buy 1 pack per week, play with that" and then a few weeks or months later people are buying booster boxes and hitting up singles shops for hundreds of cards at a time.

To be clear, I agree with you that it wouldn't be surprising.

I just think it'd be terribly short sighted.

But, y'know... *jazzhands* and all.

 Forar wrote:

To be clear, I agree with you that it wouldn't be surprising.

I just think it'd be terribly short sighted.

But, y'know... *jazzhands* and all.

It's not short sighted but just them being the indy maverick of gaming! (in the words of Palladium's own fan Voldemort). As a business decision, I can at least see the reasoning behind getting rid of a skirmish scale option especially with the model counts being touted and sold in the core box and expansions. I just hope that the rules don't bog down at that level. In the meantime, I'll be gluing my Battletech Unseen minis collection for use in hopefully upcoming Heavy Gear, X-Wing, and even possibly stand ins for a Robotech trial run after I get some info from Mike about what he did with the Q-Raus.

So. Jelly.

Thanks but they're pretty junky. I've got a missing gun and every head has broken antenna... but it's enough to play a small game which is why I converted the LAMs over to x-wing (see that forum) and why I'll use the battletech minis hopefully in Heavy Gear next week. I think it might have been someone IIRC from this thread that some a nice collection of gashapon a few weeks ago on ebay. I would have killed for that collection a few years ago.

I have my dozen or so Marauders and 20 or so Warhammers + other Unseen, but they're so out of scale with RTT...

Plus, Alpha Strike is fun enough that I'm not missing anything I don't think.

Actually Battletech unseen and Tactics are pretty close in scale.

For Warboss,

My Rules

Stat Cards

Mike1975 wrote:
Actually Battletech unseen and Tactics are pretty close in scale.

If the gencon minis are any indication, the human stuff is much closer to the battletech unseen metal minis whereas the Zent mecha will be noticeably bigger than unseen versions.

Thanks for posting the rules. I'm curious to see how the FPA ended up statwise. The v2.0 rpg stats definitely had some surprises for me. Minimissiles are unguided straight line rockets and they swapped the FPA to all minimissiles strangely. In the show, you see them twisting right after launch to completely different directions which doesnt jive with the stats. It'll be interesting to see how that rpg (IMO) mistake affects the tabletop game.

The rules are on the FB page, but not everyone like to go to facebook.

Personally it was an easy way to set up a place for this stuff. I have no website building skills.

Sorry - I thought the RRT stuff was going to be much bigger than the metals.

Sweet - I have an awesome Destroid force already :-)

So I called PB. Tried to explain the concerns the gaming community has & ask the for a token of good faith. The rep laughed at me on this. Said "oh you want more free stuff on top of the free stuff you're already getting?"

When I brought up max & miriya he said basically if we as backers feel entitled to request one via a grab bag. In response to my requests for any kind of timeline he said they have no idea. He said they aren't allowed to show any kind of rules or cards in digital format & won't send out early bird rulebooks regardless of length of delay.

Oh & in response to our concerns about delays, timelines, refusal to show us anything aside from shape ways prints that it's all just negativity toward the project & pb & that we need to stop accusing them of not wanting to make this game.

I hope I get Miriya in my next grab bag. Max needs his girl.

I would hate for PB to now drop the skirmish rules. Mike I hope you bring this up next time. My main interest in this was for the minis and for skirmish style games. Tell Kevin mini war gamers don't mind alternate ways of playing. Forar's right about keeping the skirmish rules as a gateway for bigger games.

 Red_Starrise wrote:
So I called PB. Tried to explain the concerns the gaming community has & ask the for a token of good faith. The rep laughed at me on this. Said "oh you want more free stuff on top of the free stuff you're already getting?"

When I brought up max & miriya he said basically if we as backers feel entitled to request one via a grab bag. In response to my requests for any kind of timeline he said they have no idea. He said they aren't allowed to show any kind of rules or cards in digital format & won't send out early bird rulebooks regardless of length of delay.

Oh & in response to our concerns about delays, timelines, refusal to show us anything aside from shape ways prints that it's all just negativity toward the project & pb & that we need to stop accusing them of not wanting to make this game.

Wow. Uh... What? What the feth? Is this for real?

They've already shown us some cards... didn't they?

While what you discussed in regards to the game is between you and the rep, I can't imagine any situation where it would be appropriate for someone representing a company to laugh at a customer.

And then tell them to order a grab bag.lol

Well, they said they made around 200 M&Ms for Gencon, and like 125 or so for DFF.

~325 M&Ms, minus the "omg we sold out" at Gencon and whatever was picked off by fans and ebay resellers, yeah that should totally cover hundreds or thousands of backers who might want one.

It's possible they did another run of them and actually have a good number on hand, for grab bags, for the next convention they attend, whatever. But if that's the case, they should say so.

As for the rest of that call; let's be real, we didn't get anything "free". We got a big pile of stuff at a significant discount off retail/MSRP, but nothing they're sending us will be "free". If there's something they're not charging us for, then that's their screw up in the business model.

"Hey, I'd like to be able to buy a model" should not be answered with "then you should totally give us $60-100 and pray we have some left over". That's not a purchase, that's gambling.

While we don't know how Starrise worded it, but across literally tens of thousands of comments, I've seen very few (if any) comments even resembling this "they don't want to make it" bull that they keep trying to push. I have full faith they and HG and ND want to make it and want to roll around on giant piles of money from this product line. What's in question is how on top of things they actually are. We've been given conflicting info on that subject for 3/4 of a year now.

They want the "negativity towards pb" to stop? How about they stop treating us like children and actually deal with us straight up? Maybe follow through on the things they say they will in the time frame they give, and provide reasons for delays when that can't happen.

I guess Jorel is wrong though, calling them up isn't the best way to get in touch and get info. There's an important caveat that one must be willing to tongue bathe them in love and adoration as well.

The business is directed and run on emotion.

That IS a choice, maybe not the best for stability.

They are all excited about the prospects of this project but forget that it is not all about them, it is about the 5000+ of us and how we are treated.

Seeing how this has been handled I do not expect anything to be different in future projects, so I will not buy a single thing from them until it hits retail and even then with some trepidation.

 Forar wrote:
While we don't know how Starrise worded it, but across literally tens of thousands of comments, I've seen very few (if any) comments even resembling this "they don't want to make it" bull that they keep trying to push. I have full faith they and HG and ND want to make it and want to roll around on giant piles of money from this product line. What's in question is how on top of things they actually are. We've been given conflicting info on that subject for 3/4 of a year now.

It's easier to address an extreme comment posted once with an answer (that the superfans can then claim is them listening and responding) rather than responding to the reasonable ones posted over and over and over again by multiple people (like give us a detailed "to do/done" list, post the rules like other KS so we can help find errors, etc).

Is anyone interested in the Nichimo model kits?

I have dozens of them left over from when I was working on my initial version of the game. I have probably around 45-50 of the various pods, veritechs in all 3 forms plus super and armored version, 3-4 of each destroid including the Mac II. I have zero interests in Robotech anymore (thanks to Palladium) and the models are taking up too much room and figured I'd see if anyone is looking for some before they hit ebay. Plenty of additional stuff on sprue that's not pictured.

What kind of prices are you looking for?

I can ask my FB group.

probably $10 for the soldier or guardian veritechs, $15-$20 for rare veritechs & fighters, destroids , pods. Officer pod female armor and Mac IIs I'd need to figure out. (I have 4 more boxes that aren't pictured)

Not really priced to move. Especially with new models "on the way."

They are a lot bigger and also pretty hard to find in large quantities.


Took me over 2 1/2 years to build the collection and a crazy amount of money.