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"shoot the glass". Everyone is a Die Hard fan!

It remains my favourite Christmas movie.

1 and 3 remain my favourites. 2 was sort of a rehash in ways that didn't astound me, 4 is sort of a guilty pleasure, 5 is flat out way funnier than it has any right being.

So does anyone have any (reasonable...lol) suggestions as to what my next course of action should be after that lovely reply from Palladium? They are very behind schedule, and most places let you return items in hand if they aren't quality or you don't like them. I don't even have any items to return.

 jacobus wrote:
So does anyone have any (reasonable...lol) suggestions as to what my next course of action should be after that lovely reply from Palladium? They are very behind schedule, and most places let you return items in hand if they aren't quality or you don't like them. I don't even have any items to return.

Since they sent that response (and assuming there is no other way for a refund, which I don't think there is), the only options I can see are to be stuck waiting it out or to sell your pledge to someone.

Or call the credit card company... or go public with your request on their forums and the comments to "shame" them into giving you a refund... or just wait it out and hope palladium finally has an accurate gauge on the project and that no further delays (whether in or out of their control) occur.

 Ironwill13791 wrote:
to sell your pledge to someone.

This isn't a bad option. I did this and Palladium changed my address in the survey to the buyer's address/name.

Contact your Credit Card company?

I personally am not too concerned about the delay, if we have quality models. If we got stuff on time, or near on-time, with the issues Mantic has at rushed production, there'd be a lot more hell to pay than if the project is delayed and the models are good. Plus, personally, even if my pledge showed up on my doorstep today I wouldn't have the time to paint them until probably August anyway.

Well, I got my friend to try out the game when I can get a hold of it. He might even take the Zentradi off my hands if he likes it (I really just want the USDF stuff).

Yeah, I'd start with the credit card company. Most have a much shorter time requirement then where we're at now, but we've heard good things in other threads about people getting lucky, or explaining to them that they've essentially pre-ordered something and got told there was another half year tacked onto the delivery date and that they found it unacceptable.

If that doesn't work, and you can't be bothered trying to start a movement about it online, selling your pledge to someone else would probably be the way to go.

Depending on how the MSRP goes down for the second lot and the Limited Edition figures sell on the secondary market, you basically got $500-600 of stuff for that $140. Even if one lowballs the numbers significantly, it shouldn't be too hard to get someone interested in buying it off you.

All the better if you're able to convince Palladium that you've decided to give your pledge to a 'friend' in another state as a present. >.>

Which is to say that I'm not sure how big a fan they'd be of someone saying "hey, can you change my name and address? I've sold my gak to someone else and don't want to have to ship it myself."

But I can't fault anyone for wanting out at this point. Signing up for an 8 month wait, being told that it might be 6-7, and then being told that it'll end up being 18+ isn't an unreasonable thing to be unhappy about.

Personally, I'm in for 3 Battle Cry boxes and a small pile of add ons, but have basically worked out that I plan to sell ~2/3 of the Zentraedi and 1/3 of the RDF to recoup some costs. As I think I'm contractually obligated to mention anytime someone talks about what to do with their stuff.

I definitely do not need 300 models.

Situations like this call for Dookie-in-a-box.

Plan ahead with Mexican for the night before.

 Forar wrote:
Which is to say that I'm not sure how big a fan they'd be of someone saying "hey, can you change my name and address? I've sold my gak to someone else and don't want to have to ship it myself."

I asked them over KS message if I could change my address. They said yes. I sent them a completely different name and address. They said 'All set. Changed it for you.'

It's pretty easy.

So how does the selling the pledge work? And how did you do it? I'd be worried what would happen when PB doesn't deliver the goods.

It's simple. You'd have to pay the person back. Their "contract" is with you.

I noticed kickstarter crazy posted this:
WilhelmRochRedDuke I noticed that your post on Tenkars Tavern ended up being the last one and seemed to shut a few people up. :-D

He left out a few details like the usual suspects. Product tardiness, PB business practices you know the usual. Also some of the comments about the ks being late came true. So it's not exactly a golden moment for PB.
http://www.tenkarstavern.com/2013/04/a-tale-of-two-tactics-robotech-rpg.html#comment-form

I'd bring it to his attention but I'm sure the "faithful" will bat it away with their logic.

Funny I made that prediction about not being able to launch in a timely fashion well before they even teamed with Ninja Division, but what do I know? I'm just a guy who makes minis for a living.

I love how a few palladium fanboys assume I was asking for a huge sum of money for my efforts. Lets say if I were approached on a similar project that required me to work full time (or more) for an entire year I'd easily be bought for a whopping salary of $30k, probably even a good sum less if I had a passionate interest in a favorite childhood cartoon that I used to love so much so that I took the time and effort to make some miniatures for it and promoted the idea for free. But I've got a heart of ice that's black as coal and I want the world in exchange for my time.

I wonder what percentage they ended up paying out to ND? I'm sure it's soooo much cheaper than what I would have asked for.



Also why would PB ever fire or mistreat somebody like Tom who volunteers to stroke Kevin off for free?


.

 jacobus wrote:
So does anyone have any (reasonable...lol) suggestions as to what my next course of action should be after that lovely reply from Palladium? They are very behind schedule, and most places let you return items in hand if they aren't quality or you don't like them. I don't even have any items to return.

I posted on PB's FB page. Not sure that it will do anything, but hey, maybe it will help. What a shameful company. It says right on KS, and has been proven in court, that all KS's have to give a refund if they don't come through. I guess PB believes they are above that too.

Indeed there is an obligation to refund if a project creator can't deliver a project

but NO obligation to give a refund if the project is late (as long as progress is being made toward delivery)

and think what you like about Palladium/Ninja Divison etc they are working towards delivery (more slowly than most would like certainly) and any attempt to prove otherwise in court would (almost certainly) be futile

typically if a project hits the 'nope, no way to do this' point there's no money left to refund (I say this as a backer of a couple of 'dead' projects)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Indeed there is an obligation to refund if a project creator can't deliver a project

but NO obligation to give a refund if the project is late (as long as progress is being made toward delivery)

and think what you like about Palladium/Ninja Divison etc they are working towards delivery (more slowly than most would like certainly) and any attempt to prove otherwise in court would (almost certainly) be futile

typically if a project hits the 'nope, no way to do this' point there's no money left to refund (I say this as a backer of a couple of 'dead' projects)

I don't think KS says when a refund is obligated, only that there is the obligation TO a refund.

PB/ND has far exceeded their self-made deadline, and has even split their shipment because they can't meet their second (third?) timeline.

If we propose that we are "financial investors" in this enterprise, as KS and the companies who take our money on KS propose, then technically we have entered into an agreement on the timeline that they published. As they have blown passed that initial date, it does not now matter that they will still deliver the product. This is why KS has changed their KS rules, to fully exclude themselves from any legal actions, and to further put the onus on the companies running their projects. A good attorney could easily make this case in court, and probably even recoup the court fees and their own fees, as PB/ND has no leg to stand on, as they made their own delivery deadlines.

Telling someone that 'No, you can't have your money back!' just wouldn't stand up as they have failed to hold their end of the bargain. If PB were to argue that it is a pre-order, the judge would laugh them out of the court room, as you can always cancel one of those. So, it is poor business practice on PBs part at the very least. Also a very poor way to treat their customer base.

I'm not a lawyer, but while there are similarities, my understanding is that we're neither investors nor paying for a pre-order.

As I've said a few times, the lack of consumer protections baked into the system at the moment isn't a good thing.

Kickstarter makes it a point to *NOT* call people investors as that terminology would trigger a whole bunch of laws from the stock market side of things.

 Forar wrote:
I'm not a lawyer, but while there are similarities, my understanding is that we're neither investors nor paying for a pre-order.

As I've said a few times, the lack of consumer protections baked into the system at the moment isn't a good thing.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that someone has already successfully sued KS and/or a project creator?

Fuzzy on the details (Sorry!) but it has happened!

 Alpharius wrote:

 Forar wrote:
I'm not a lawyer, but while there are similarities, my understanding is that we're neither investors nor paying for a pre-order.

As I've said a few times, the lack of consumer protections baked into the system at the moment isn't a good thing.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that someone has already successfully sued KS and/or a project creator?

Fuzzy on the details (Sorry!) but it has happened!

Yes, but that was (IIRC) a project that said it was not going to deliver (because of some reasons) and not going to issue refunds; rather then a project just being late.

Note that I never said that project creators were free from consequences.

I'm merely pointing out that being "an investor" or having purchased "a preorder" would give backers considerably more rights than they currently have.

KS can pretend all they like, but IF someone were to feel the need to sue, and have the funds to do so, I don't think many of the things that KS thinks are true would still be true at the end of said suit.

I imagine it'll be like a lot of EULA's; probably doesn't hold up under close scrutiny, but few consumers have the time or resources to bother challenging it.

 Forar wrote:
I imagine it'll be like a lot of EULA's; probably doesn't hold up under close scrutiny, but few consumers have the time or resources to bother challenging it.

I imagine that it is exactly like that!

 Alpharius wrote:

 Forar wrote:
I'm not a lawyer, but while there are similarities, my understanding is that we're neither investors nor paying for a pre-order.

As I've said a few times, the lack of consumer protections baked into the system at the moment isn't a good thing.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that someone has already successfully sued KS and/or a project creator?

Fuzzy on the details (Sorry!) but it has happened!

I read an article about the guy who was making a stand to hold your iPhone. It never worked out, and though he never gave up on the project, he was eventually sued. He lost his in court, and has a settlement against him, making it extremely difficult to get loans to try and finish the project. The article said he moved to Jamaica or somewhere because he lost his job and it ruined his life.

In this case, all you would have to do is convince a DA where you live, where KS is, where Amazon is, or where PB is that they've stepped across the line, and it wouldn't cost you a dime. Now, if you want to go after them in small claims court, it will cost you money, but it will also cost them money, time and effort, and I don't see anything that gives them a leg to stand on. But, not many people have that kind of fortitude.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
I noticed kickstarter crazy posted this:
WilhelmRochRedDuke I noticed that your post on Tenkars Tavern ended up being the last one and seemed to shut a few people up. :-D

He left out a few details like the usual suspects. Product tardiness, PB business practices you know the usual. Also some of the comments about the ks being late came true. So it's not exactly a golden moment for PB.
http://www.tenkarstavern.com/2013/04/a-tale-of-two-tactics-robotech-rpg.html#comment-form

I'd bring it to his attention but I'm sure the "faithful" will bat it away with their logic.

Actually risking getting labeled as a PB "faithful" I have been well treated and probably been told a lot more than I should know. That being said what I have shared is being taken into account and reviewed so I hope to put at least a small stamp on the game that has my name behind it. There are times when a project has an issue where communication to all the shareholders is not appropriate and may even be viewed as finger pointing and scapegoating. In all the project could be a month or two farther along than it is but there are reasons for where it is where it is and greed and purposeful misleading of backers are not even on the radar here people.

With a KS, never expect a refund, unless the project totally fails, and then only expect a partial refund at the best. Sell the pledge to others or Ebay it when it comes if you are not happy. Instead of letting it keep you in a bad mood for months to come just make a choice on what you want to do and move forward. Complaining is not movement, forwards or backwards, but a way to occupy time until someone can make a decision. I wish my stuff was in the mail already too.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and I feel a lot better after having to go through Strepp Throat for the last few days. I hope to have a few games in tonight for everyone!

Doesn't really explain the attitude towards backers in the updates. I get the feeling we're regarded as an inconvenience.