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I wish I could post the compiled list of insults the guy wrote just from the last two days. If he follows the Alex Clarke mould, he should be gracing Mike's facebook page sometime soon if he isn't already. For those new to the Robotech Kickstarter comment sections, this is what you may run into:

https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/166933443/comments

 warboss wrote:
Is there a way to file a complaint about an individual commenter on Kickstarter? Or is that only something the owner of a project can do?

I did it once when another backer started posting anti semitic stuff in the comments of a KS I used the report this project link and then just filled in the form and linked to the backers comments. Kickstarter took a few days to delete them.

You can also open a support ticket as follows, KS really don't make it easy but at least they do reply.

Support - General questions about pledging to a project - Using the site - Other

Man I'm glad I dropped this project I've been following this with interest but had a real WTF moment when the guy in the video said you can't see the seams if your looking form above! really

Ah, how is he not banned from KS Commenting yet?

Wow.

Reporting the project also has under its description abusive comments (so I chose that one).

I'm so back and forth on this it almost makes me stomach sick. I want Robotech mins so bad and this had so much potential.

Then the next time I think about the $1000 I'm in for and see what they are touting, I want to get a baseball bat and take a drive to Michigan.

I'm developing some sort of Stockholm Syndrome, or domestic abuse denier defense. I keep telling myself everything will turn out ok, and clearly it's not going too.

Just... wtf man... wtf.....

I'm in for Reckless and tons of add-ons. I'll be building these crap models forever or they will sit in a box to never be touched.

The seams...Jesus, who puts a seam right down the canopy of a mini that's like 80% farking canopy? Splitting the covers for the launchers....who does that and who's the idiot that looked at it and went, "OK. Great job!"

Who does that?

WHO!?

 warboss wrote:
I wish I could post the compiled list of insults the guy wrote just from the last two days. If he follows the Alex Clarke mould, he should be gracing Mike's facebook page sometime soon if he isn't already. For those new to the Robotech Kickstarter comment sections, this is what you may run into:

https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/166933443/comments

Dear God, that was bad. That was a disgusting display of humanity. It was also incredibly humorous that he would threaten to sue about something he brought up and especially after calling everyone disagreeing with the way the game is being handled as trailer park trash pu$$ies.
Also, HG taking the Macross franchise and making it better with Robotech NO. After frankensteining it, Robotech became its own thing. Both franchises have their positive and negative merits, but IMHO they really can't be compared fairly (Background: I like both franchises, and they are exactly the same thing for the 1st arc of Robotech and 1st series of Macross). This post by Duncan was meant to be purely obtuse at this point.
P.S. He should be banned along with Alex Clarke.

Yeah, they have some terrible seam placement. The fact that both PB and ND have to defend the seams shows that even they deep down know what kind of trash they're getting ready to churn out. That is what makes the SDE KS, and even the thread here on Dakka even funnier. In the comments on the SDE KS, there are people who are demonizing CMoN as the money lusting, whip toting overseers who drove Ninja Pop into the ground. I have to laugh, as pretty much everything about their SDE KS is putting a hand out for another dollar with every other SG. But those guys are loving what they are dishing out. I laughed at their most recently revealed $25k SG. They are going to gift 7 (seven) cards to all their backers for that $25k contribution. So, they're pretty much going to spend about $250 to churn out 15,000 cards.

I pretty much despise both PB and ND at this point. It's funny that PB is turning on ND on the comments section. I don't think it is lazy to point out that PB is responsible for this, as it is their KS, and they are overall in charge of where this KS is and isn't. CMoN I believe handled it much better when they handed the reins for the KS updates over to Ninja Pop to bungle and show their @$$ on. But there are so many people blinded by their like of SDE that think that Ninja Pop are responsible business professionals and actually care about their player base. I was pretty much disabused of that notion when Ninja Pop Ned (real name not worth remembering) told me how stupid I was for not understanding that their cut rate mold method prevented them from actually making a model worth having. As well the explanation that the seams wouldn't be at all noticeable. The seams on some of the best models in miniatures are still noticeable. These are a travesty.

It is just icing on the winter of my discontent that a Palladium Pudwhacker says that the seams aren't that noticeable when viewed from above. They're noticeable with your eyes closed. There was less of a disturbance in the force when Darth Vader destroyed Alderaan. In fact, the Sith as a whole are in awe at the complete and quite public eradication of an entire generations worth of nostalgia that these two companies are perpetrating. Perhaps there is yet a few unblemished believers out there that could have a counter KS to collect the tears of true believers, bottle them, and distribute them to those of us who will have mounds and mounds of plastic piles to rival those found on the Isle of Misfit Toys. I'm not sure I can punish my children with this game when we eventually receive it.

 Ironwill13791 wrote:

I found it rather aggravating when Alex brought up your past dealings with the project, but decided to put his own negative spin on it (White knighting even when he claims to not be). Having heard it from you in much more detail; I can honestly say that there really isn't any bad blood between you and PB/ND's project. He just wanted to make a quick dig to try and discredit you (of course, I shouldn't expect anything else from the guy who compared a gnerl fighter to his undersized man parts ). But very insightful post again, love the inside information on all this stuff.

Saying things are peachy with PB would be a bit much, I really don't care for PB/Kevin at all and I make that pretty clear with people but when I criticize them I'm not waging any sort of personal crusade. I do want to see a good Robotech product, I've waited 30 years of my life for it and if I didn't believe it was possible I wouldn't have tried to help get the game launched. I put in a lot of work on it and was passionate about it, anyone that did the same and got axed would feel a bit miffed. People saying they'd feel differently if they were in the same situation are just lying through their teeth. People don't volunteer 6-8 months of their life trying to make something they don't believe in, and getting slapped down at that point stings pretty bad, so of course part of me is angry but I don't let that guide my critiques of them. Sure it may color some of it negatively but I don't rage on PB just for the sake of it. In a lot of ways it's like GW there's elements you can love about their product yet really dislike the company itself as a whole.

ND I'm completely fine with, they were part of the project well after me and most of their work has been stellar. I really like their graphics and the 3d work has been solid.

Alex is obviously a troll and trying to imply that simply because I had a conflict with PB in the past I'm incapable of moving on which is just stupid. If anything I think my involvement with the game in it's early stages that I did have some very valid ideas and skills because even if I failed to carry things all the way through the ball finally got rolling for the first time in 25 years. He can't discredit my skill or the fact I have actual industry experience so he's trying to be a dick while cursing people out behind a smiling troll face. When he can't make a proper argument he resorts to swearing and mud slinging so feth him.

Sure I'm unhappy with how things went (particularly the way Kevin addressed it), but at the same time I'm really proud to have had a hand in getting things started and it's also directed me into other areas I probably wouldn't have gone if I'd simply stayed working on Robotech. (like working on Mecha Front) Like most things in life the experience was a bit of a mixed bag but I grew as a result of it and like an adult I picked up and moved on, it's just business.

 Salacious Greed wrote:

I pretty much despise both PB and ND at this point. It's funny that PB is turning on ND on the comments section. I don't think it is lazy to point out that PB is responsible for this, as it is their KS, and they are overall in charge of where this KS is and isn't. CMoN I believe handled it much better when they handed the reins for the KS updates over to Ninja Pop to bungle and show their @$$ on. But there are so many people blinded by their like of SDE that think that Ninja Pop are responsible business professionals and actually care about their player base. I was pretty much disabused of that notion when Ninja Pop Ned (real name not worth remembering) told me how stupid I was for not understanding that their cut rate mold method prevented them from actually making a model worth having. As well the explanation that the seams wouldn't be at all noticeable. The seams on some of the best models in miniatures are still noticeable. These are a travesty.

It is just icing on the winter of my discontent that a Palladium Pudwhacker says that the seams aren't that noticeable when viewed from above. They're noticeable with your eyes closed. There was less of a disturbance in the force when Darth Vader destroyed Alderaan. In fact, the Sith as a whole are in awe at the complete and quite public eradication of an entire generations worth of nostalgia that these two companies are perpetrating. Perhaps there is yet a few unblemished believers out there that could have a counter KS to collect the tears of true believers, bottle them, and distribute them to those of us who will have mounds and mounds of plastic piles to rival those found on the Isle of Misfit Toys. I'm not sure I can punish my children with this game when we eventually receive it.

That a bit more Gilmore Girls than I'd have put it but I understand the sentiment. Where did they say the bolded part?

 Salacious Greed wrote:
I have to laugh, as pretty much everything about their SDE KS is putting a hand out for another dollar with every other SG.

To be fair (even if it isn't deserved), for the RRT campaign half the 'stretch goals' required further payments as well. Off hand, they generally trended towards paid/free, with a smattering of unit/box upgrades (and random gak nobody asked for like the experimentals, but that's another story).

That said...

It is just icing on the winter of my discontent that a Palladium Pudwhacker says that the seams aren't that noticeable when viewed from above. They're noticeable with your eyes closed. There was less of a disturbance in the force when Darth Vader destroyed Alderaan. In fact, the Sith as a whole are in awe at the complete and quite public eradication of an entire generations worth of nostalgia that these two companies are perpetrating. Perhaps there is yet a few unblemished believers out there that could have a counter KS to collect the tears of true believers, bottle them, and distribute them to those of us who will have mounds and mounds of plastic piles to rival those found on the Isle of Misfit Toys. I'm not sure I can punish my children with this game when we eventually receive it.

That's some funny gak right there.

I don't remember the exact saying but it's something to the effect:

If everyone you meet is constantly out to get you all of the time and it's everyone else that's always the problem; maybe it's not them but it's actually you.


Afterall what are the chances that in Palladium's 30 years stretch of business they can only seem to attract crazy and/or incompetent people? All the problems with the company are always because somebody else has inflicted them upon Palladium, it's never ever, ever, ever, the result of a bad choice that Kevin made right?



Everyone else makes mistakes, typically admits to them and then manage to find a way move on, but not for those in the gleaming ivory tower over in MI. Oh no, all their troubles and woes are clearly because of ND's fault or because somebody else failed them yet again.

 jacobus wrote:

I simply told my bank what was going on- they had promised us product in December, and now they're saying that it some of it may be to us by August. I had asked them for a refund, and they refused. They showed some finished test product, still didn't move their timeline forward, and the product was unsatisfactory. Asked for a refund again, based on delays and product quality, and never heard from them. Bank gave me my money back.

I'm not totally sure, but that might also mean that they may be going after PB to get the money. Again, not sure how that works, but if enough people start doing this, it might make it easier for folks to get actual refunds without having to go through a rigamarole.

Thanks for that. I might email PB tomorrow and ask for a refund in that case. Get the ball rolling, so to speak. While I'd like to get my BC stuff, the quality looks like it's going to be at least a Sedition Wars level write-off. (and I sunk $700+ into that piece of gak).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:
I wish I could post the compiled list of insults the guy wrote just from the last two days. If he follows the Alex Clarke mould, he should be gracing Mike's facebook page sometime soon if he isn't already. For those new to the Robotech Kickstarter comment sections, this is what you may run into:

https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/166933443/comments

Nice. I especially liked the mangled grammar in the post where he chides Merijeek about grammar. Otherwise, he just looks like a standard raving loony internet tough guy/superfan who wouldn't say boo to a goose in real life.

[MOD EDIT - Yeah, not allowed in pictures either! - Alpharius]
OK, fair enough. I wasn't sure, and spoilered it based on the Reaper/etc boobs we often get in N&R.

Have a link instead. Mildly NSFW language in image (pic is not)
http://swingnews.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/greater-internet-fuckwad-theory1.jpg

Any chance someone could re-post the a couple of the gama pictures here?

Work blocked :(

Gone in quite heavily on this (£500+) and would like to see just how bad the rest of the models are compared to the update.

The models (huge macross fan) are the major reason i went in heavy on this and if they are all looking bad i may have to chase a refund myself......

Don't forget, anyone who's really interested in a refund, PM me. I'm trying to get a group together, and I'm working on a FB group as well. I may have it ready for public consumption by the end of the week. Hopefully we can collectively pressure PB to give us our money back.

Hmm debating whether I want to go for the refund or not, while Im not turned off by the previews I'm seeing by any means, and am actually very much looking forward to it, I am VERY put off by the seemingly endless delays and the seeming lack of any progress towards getting product in hand. Whats the latest 'ship date' they're promising again? I think it was July? I dont see that happening given their seemingly current point of development.

 warboss wrote:
Where did they say the bolded part?

Warboss, It was in the last update, where the guy from ND gave us the engineering overview of undercuts and mold cutting for beginners, and why every model they designed had to be split down the middle.

Yes, I was still charged up from my pre-workout supplement yesterday, so a few extra synapses were firing, and I get a little wordy when I'm that amped up.

Forar, yes, RRT had a lot of paid add-ons unlcocked as well, but a great many of those were given to the backers, not left solely in the paid add-on section. I actually took a pass on most of the paid stuff that was added into pledges, the armored and VF-1Ts were the only add-ons for me. I don't see the same from Ninja Pop, it feels much more of a 1 for you, 2 for me, 1 for you, 2 for me type of campaign. Using the dedicated player base to right their failing ship, and not giving much consideration to that player base for doing so. And there is nothing wrong with those players really liking and enjoying SDE, and they're welcome to prop Ninja Pop up. I just don't trust them, and as this is really their first true solo KS campaign, I find it interesting that they're rather stingy with rewarding their backers. RK, RRT and Megaman were all fronted by other companies, and had really great value for the backers. Now, it's almost as if they begrudge everything they add into a pledge. And I have no issue with companies having lots of add-ons to help drive up pledge amounts. I thought Arcadia Quest did a great job of having things to buy, as well as the Mercs Recon KS right now. They have some great stuff that adds content to Recon. But the majority of stuff to buy with The Forgotten King has been unlocked in the KS. It just feels, to me, that they know that a majority of their fanbase are completionists, and WILL buy it, because it is a compulsion.

But, with GAMA, and PBs embarrassingly terrible models on show, it just defines for me that both PB and ND are pretty much amatuer hour. If they aren't interested in impressing their peers and all the businessmen they want to carry and push their product, then they're not worth supporting with my dollar and time. I was really impressed with what I saw from Fantasy Frog Productions, and their Shadows of Brimstone game. But PB and ND with RRT was depressing, and any time you apologize profusely and have to ask people not to touch your crap models because they might implode, it's seriously embarrassing.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Hmm debating whether I want to go for the refund or not, while Im not turned off by the previews I'm seeing by any means, and am actually very much looking forward to it, I am VERY put off by the seemingly endless delays and the seeming lack of any progress towards getting product in hand. Whats the latest 'ship date' they're promising again? I think it was July? I dont see that happening given their seemingly current point of development.

It's still officially June, via Updates and official PB releases (Weekly Updates, Murmurs, etc).

The following was thrown out in the snitfit with a Backer named Zero.

"We'll deliver as promised, as soon as we can. Wave One will deliver in June or July, as we've said before. "

It's buried DEEP in the comments section of Update 135, probably 15-20 pages in.

So I discount it for that reason, and also because "as we've said before" has to my knowledge, NEVER been said before, for July. It's the first mention of July as possible.

Which implies they already know or suspect they are going to slip. We'll see, I'm going to give it a few more weeks.

Morgan Vening wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Hmm debating whether I want to go for the refund or not, while Im not turned off by the previews I'm seeing by any means, and am actually very much looking forward to it, I am VERY put off by the seemingly endless delays and the seeming lack of any progress towards getting product in hand. Whats the latest 'ship date' they're promising again? I think it was July? I dont see that happening given their seemingly current point of development.

It's still officially June, via Updates and official PB releases (Weekly Updates, Murmurs, etc).

The following was thrown out in the snitfit with a Backer named Zero.

"We'll deliver as promised, as soon as we can. Wave One will deliver in June or July, as we've said before. "

It's buried DEEP in the comments section of Update 135, probably 15-20 pages in.

So I discount it for that reason, and also because "as we've said before" has to my knowledge, NEVER been said before, for July. It's the first mention of July as possible.

The July reference is the first and it caught my eye when IIRC forar posted it last week. They copy pasted June for May into the previous maybe may, definitely early June estimate. Within a few weeks we'll likely see a one line sentance buried somewhere in a murmur on their site slipping it back to July, early August in time for Gencon. If they get the shipment in by August they won't actually have the time to ship it to any significant portion of their backers when factoring Gencon prep. Egg on their face is frankly the only thing I will have to show for this kickstarter for at least 8 months post earliest posted delivery date and counting. If that ends up being the case, I hope they miss gencon as they deserve the public embarrassment and lack of direct sales. A mediocre release of Robotech won't sink Palladium as they can always fall back on their 100 die hard fans that buy everything and praise everything they do but with the way all this is shaping up I don't expect it to be a big success beyond the KS due to lack of company support, planning, skill, and foresight.

I'm betting they fly some boxes over for GenCon and Wave 1 delivers in October.

rigeld2 wrote:
I'm betting they fly some boxes over for GenCon and Wave 1 delivers in October.

If they do, and I have been denied my money back, I'll be having a "Palladium ripped me off for $1500, and I had to pay for my own damned shirt" printed in white text on a medium blue shirt (that's their colors, right?) made up for GenCon.

Do I need a TM or a (C) after Palladium if I put the name on a TShirt? Or would it be covered under the satire exceptions for free speech? Or would it be funnier to put the trademark symbols on, regardless?

I doesn't matter if you aren't selling it.

What about "Palladium Lied, My Pledge Died" ?

Morgan Vening wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
I'm betting they fly some boxes over for GenCon and Wave 1 delivers in October.

If they do, and I have been denied my money back, I'll be having a "Palladium ripped me off for $1500, and I had to pay for my own damned shirt" printed in white text on a medium blue shirt (that's their colors, right?) made up for GenCon.

Do I need a TM or a (C) after Palladium if I put the name on a TShirt? Or would it be covered under the satire exceptions for free speech? Or would it be funnier to put the trademark symbols on, regardless?

If they release the game at Gen Con before the backers get theirs, I'd love to see some folks do a picket line or some form of protest. They certainly have it coming. I'd hate to see them spin this debacle into a triumph (even if it's in their own minds). If cold hard, pissed off reality is staring you right in the face. It's hard for anyone to just smile and ignore it. Which is what will happen if nobody calls Palladium on their handling of Robotech RTT.

The T-Shirt idea is nice. I think something simple like 'Palladium Sucks' in big bold letters and then something about the why's and how's either on the back or below them. Just list all the release dates, maybe some broken promises. I know you can't sell them, but you could give them away with the purchase of a bottle of a $7 or $10 water.

I have this vision of angry KS backers asking some hard hitting questions about the KS in person via Youtube.

If things keep on going like they are, this is just going to get uglier and uglier.

Bring the rage from the comments page to the Con!

Only when they get to the con to confront PB they go back to being normal people and give Kevin his props instead.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Only when they get to the con to confront PB they go back to being normal people and give Kevin his props instead.

That would suck if everyone wussed out.

I can see maybe a lot of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-twayjdq7c

Give the nerds some Jack Daniels...makes ya mean. Jack or tequila.

Well the Robotech Saga continues... I've been out of the loop!

Didn't pledge in the end except for Rick, probably waiting for the Retail Box in 2031. You know, when the Invid finally invade Earth.

Honestly guys, the miniatures aren't looking that terrible, the MAC still is sexay. I don't pledge Kickstarters assuming they'll deliver on time.

Of course, Palladium is pretty gak at this but is anyone really surprised? Just go play other games until the kickstarter and implodes and everyone gets shafted or you finally receive a mediocre miniatures game
with an infinite number of fiddly veritech bits.

Such are the risks of nostalgia-based kickstarters! Caveat Emptor.

You forgot to mention that we should watch some youtube how to speed putty videos while we wait.

Here's a reading of the Rifts movie script that was shipped off to Hollywood. KS hired the screenwriter as his his number 1 in house writer.

This should cheer you up. Is it bad or brilliant?

http://www.houseofhorrors.com/Beyond/beyond53.gif RIFTS the Movie Pt.1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvvkGi0Xwfs RIFTS the Movie Pt. 2

Buy you copy of it at Palladium Books website.https://palladium-store.com/1001/product/305-Rifts-Path-of-the-Storm.html

Makes me wonder how just successful of a screen writer he is if he's moonlighting writing rpg stuff.