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Much chilling must be done, we are a support group.

We paid for our stuff like it or not.

Let us agree that those selling their stuff to give preference to backers.

That way we can avoid giving a single dime past that to PB as a means of feeling all warm and fuzzy when it is all over and PB can go back to being irrelevant.

I really have to talk to Forar more since he should only be just up the road... sell me your stuff!!!!

UPDATE: Penguicon

Even one of the other vendors who knew nothing about Robotech® thought the game pieces looked great and said he was going to buy a Monster when they became available in the stores. Funny.

Funny as in joke's on him, they'll never be released? or funny in that they already have larger models kits of the Monster available in the stores for less then what our RTT game pieces TM will run?


No pics of all the "perfect" models, which are likely the same poorly fitted ones as gamma and before, yes funny indeed






.

 Talizvar wrote:
I really have to talk to Forar more since he should only be just up the road... sell me your stuff!!!!

Well, it's subject to my whims, what my friends might choose to get rid of and whatnot, but as it stands we should have up for sale:

7 VT packs
1-2 defender/tomahawk packs
1 spartan/phalanx pack

8 Battlepod packs
4 command pod packs
1 support pod pack

A few people have mentioned interest, but I suspect that'll really peak with wave two. I'll likely stick to local sales at least for the basic stuff, but if you're in the area I'd be happy to work something out when the time comes, Talizvar.

Bob the Accountant wrote:
I'm so sick of PB and and their gak. My 12 year old nephew has more character than these guys. The second my stuff actually arrives it's getting sold to the owner of my FLGS. I can't help but get angry every time I look at one of their updates.

After the recent 'we forgot to take photos' this is how I am leaning now as well.

Looks like I backed another dud :(

 MangoMadness wrote:

Bob the Accountant wrote:
I'm so sick of PB and and their gak. My 12 year old nephew has more character than these guys. The second my stuff actually arrives it's getting sold to the owner of my FLGS. I can't help but get angry every time I look at one of their updates.

After the recent 'we forgot to take photos' this is how I am leaning now as well.

Looks like I backed another dud :(

After forgetting to go to the con that premiered Robotech for the masses just a year earlier. They go to gencon and any con that recognizes the greatness of the might Kevin apparently. If you don't meet that criteria, you are forgotten about. Same thing with fans. If you worship at the altar of Siembieda then you're classified as a fan and worthy of giving feedback.

The problems are this

1. Palladium has no clue when it comes to PR and Mini's Games and Gamers, they SHOULD have hired a PR manager or firm to help as well as a Project Manager to take things in hand and hit a home run on this project. Too many mistakes and problems with communication between HG, PB, and ND, and as always with the Backers. Until people started getting real upset and questions were sent directly to them they had not spent sufficient time either answering the concerns of the backers whether small or great. They are working on improving this process but have a ways to go.

2. Upset backers in an attempt to "save" the company, instead of being productive and constructive and trying to contact the company in constructive and supportive manner have done so with a threatening and fear mongering stance trying to install fear of the company failing and falling on it's face or insulting those who work for the company in their efforts. While not a completely unrealistic position that they company may fall by not handling this KS properly, they have constantly and at times cruelly, insulted any and all who do not hold to the same opinion. Not only that they have done so under the completely false "guise" of doing so in the best interest of PB and wanting to save a company. Truly honest people that care and want a company or person to succeed do their best to cajole and suggest better ways to do things in a quiet, pointed and personal way instead they have directly, publicly and grossly attacked the company and any who opposed them. This stance is foolhardy and is bound to fail as it is because it is based on a false foundation. When suggestions have been made for how to improve and change this foundation those suggestions have also been ignored and scoffed at or even attacked. A person who honestly wants something to work and work right does everything he can within the framework he has available to achieve his goals.

Both of these are the primary problems that exist with the PB and some of backers.

2. What does it matter? PB isn't going to listen to any form of criticism, whether it's soft or hard. Btw, how are those answers to the questions backers sent them like a month ago coming along? It's only been 2-3 weeks since they'd get back to us -_-

Yay PB, show us how much you care.

And what about all the constructive comments that NMI and the other forum mods blast into the void?

Do you honestly believe that they are open and willing to take feedback when they act like that? Yes there's some unwarranted hate being thrown their way, but in combating it have largely set all of their filters on blanket ignore. If you are within Kevin's trusted elite and flatter his ego you have his ear, but the second your provide anything but glowing reviews you are suspect of being in the camp of the enemy.

This isn't unique to robotech, it's been going on for years on their forums and with their own employees/writers/artists.

Honestly I'm surprised that by sending in the compiled questionnaire that you didn't get booted as any indication that they are doing less then perfect seems to provoke their fall back mode of ignore and engage information black out efforts.

Sining wrote:
2. What does it matter? PB isn't going to listen to any form of criticism, whether it's soft or hard. Btw, how are those answers to the questions backers sent them like a month ago coming along? It's only been 2-3 weeks since they'd get back to us -_-

Yay PB, show us how much you care.

Interesting how complaining is all done on the comments, which I agree they should read, but likely don't. If they really want positive change, which they don't, they would try contacting PB directly. Has anyone done that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 paulson games wrote:
And what about all the constructive comments that NMI and the other forum mods blast into the void?

Do you honestly believe that they are open and willing to take feedback when they act like that? Yes there's some unwarranted hate being thrown their way, but in combating it have largely set all of their filters on blanket ignore. If you are within Kevin's trusted elite and flatter his ego you have his ear, but the second your provide anything but glowing reviews you are suspect of being in the camp of the enemy.

This isn't unique to robotech, it's been going on for years on their forums and with their own employees/writers/artists.

Honestly I'm surprised that by sending in the compiled questionnaire that you didn't get booted as any indication that they are doing less then perfect seems to provoke their fall back mode of ignore and engage information black out efforts.

I'm not saying it is easy but trying to be constructive has gotten some results, albeit limited. If I had sent in the questions as written I doubt we would have gotten anything. I do however find it highly dubious to CLAIM that one is doing things for the best of PB and it's future when all they do is hate monger. KS may not always be the most open to listening but he is not the only one there. I got NMI's in trouble once for being a moron by sending some copies of his threads to PB directly. Anything he says is likely taken with a grain of salt by PB too. It's not an easy situation, it is not an ideal situation either. I fin d those who say the their hyper critical suppositions are for the best of PB as hypocritical at best and straight out dishonest if only to themselves. Such self-delusion is the similar to what they accuse KS of.

 Talizvar wrote:
Much chilling must be done, we are a support group.

We paid for our stuff like it or not.

Let us agree that those selling their stuff to give preference to backers.

That way we can avoid giving a single dime past that to PB as a means of feeling all warm and fuzzy when it is all over and PB can go back to being irrelevant.

I really have to talk to Forar more since he should only be just up the road... sell me your stuff!!!!

Hey, I've been wanting to offload my crap for quite a while now. Only one backer considered it. If anyone wants it, I'm happy to knock 10% off the Backer price. That's really only a deal if you'ld need International Shipping, but even if you didn't, it'd still be at cost.

So, for just $1400US, you can get yourself 8 BattleCry's and about four hundred dollars worth of upgrades (off memory, Glaug Eldare, Monster, 2x YF-4 Box, 3x Armoured Valks Box, 2x Super Valks Box, an Experimental Valks Box and 4x VEF/1D Boxes). Shipped to your door. Assuming PB aren't complete pricks about it (never discount that possibility). If not, like Bob the Accountant, it's all going up for sale on EBay or through gamer marketplaces. Hopefully I can recover my costs, but I'm honestly not expecting to, that's how big a clusterfrak I see this project being.

EDIT: Note, I offered the 10% haircut to PB, but they never responded beyond the boilerplate Marcus "No Refunds!". So, they can eat the likely huge shipping costs, should it come to that.

Let me know if you get the Jotuns and put them up. It was the one mini I missed out on.

Mike1975 wrote:

Sining wrote:
2. What does it matter? PB isn't going to listen to any form of criticism, whether it's soft or hard. Btw, how are those answers to the questions backers sent them like a month ago coming along? It's only been 2-3 weeks since they'd get back to us -_-

Yay PB, show us how much you care.

Interesting how complaining is all done on the comments, which I agree they should read, but likely don't. If they really want positive change, which they don't, they would try contacting PB directly. Has anyone done that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mike,

I sent a long, polite email to PB on March 17th, requesting a refund. They still haven't bothered to give a reply. A friend and I split the Kickstarter between the two of us- I got a refund for my portion from my bank, and he's in the process with his. This is not how you should handle customer service at all- hiding your head in the sand and pretending there is no problem (or in PB's case, multiple problems) doesn't make it go away.

Mike, you do realise they're 'supposed' to be professionals not little children we have to coddle right? If they can't take criticism and I'm referring even to those that aren't just personal slurs, then I really think that the problem is on their side and not the backers. They're also not doing us any favours, we paid for stuff in advance, if anything they should be placating the backers and not the other way around !!

 jacobus wrote:

Mike1975 wrote:

Sining wrote:
2. What does it matter? PB isn't going to listen to any form of criticism, whether it's soft or hard. Btw, how are those answers to the questions backers sent them like a month ago coming along? It's only been 2-3 weeks since they'd get back to us -_-

Yay PB, show us how much you care.

Interesting how complaining is all done on the comments, which I agree they should read, but likely don't. If they really want positive change, which they don't, they would try contacting PB directly. Has anyone done that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mike,

I sent a long, polite email to PB on March 17th, requesting a refund. They still haven't bothered to give a reply. A friend and I split the Kickstarter between the two of us- I got a refund for my portion from my bank, and he's in the process with his. This is not how you should handle customer service at all- hiding your head in the sand and pretending there is no problem (or in PB's case, multiple problems) doesn't make it go away.

Good for you, but the only thing is that I think they have already made it clear not refunds. They should have answered you either way though. At least a we are reviewing the option and will get back to you. Take note that even personal emails to the typically take a couple weeks to get a response. Sometimes I have to call the office, so yeah, I understand that communication is piss poor.

That isn't unfortunately how Palladium is run. I doubt that fact escapes Mike but he is walking a fine line between the fans and the company so lets cut him some slack.

You can't pander to both sides continuously

There is a difference between pandering and seeing both sides' potential flaws. In any case, he is the only person who for the past 6 months has given us any insight into the game. Palladium hasn't. Red Duke hasn't. Ninja Division hasn't. He has been able to do so because he walks that line. I don't agree with his position but that doesn't mean he can't state it reasonably.

Sining wrote:
Mike, you do realise they're 'supposed' to be professionals not little children we have to coddle right? If they can't take criticism and I'm referring even to those that aren't just personal slurs, then I really think that the problem is on their side and not the backers. They're also not doing us any favours, we paid for stuff in advance, if anything they should be placating the backers and not the other way around !!

I understand that fully. I also understand how I personally would treat veiled threats and outright lies and slander. Criticism is something else, and constructive criticism will go even further. Point being the backers that are yelling and screaming and calling them liars and anyone that supports them as psychophants or shills does absolutely no good and makes it even harder for that backer's concerns to be taken seriously. I also understand that the lack of direct communication in the comments by PB or ND is frustrating and allows the mind to come up with its own conclusions, That is never a good thing. Backers need better information, an although we are not there, I think we are at least on the right track. I also think that the number of updates are pretty much on par with other KS's that I've taken part of. The quality of the updates has improved and we need to push for more improvement and point out where we are not happy. When you have a bunch of backers yelling and screaming "we want more" constantly I think it likely that PB also feels that we the backers also should be adults and not need to be coddled. When we look at things the best way is to try to see both sides and figure out the best way to get the most out of them. Like catching more flies with honey than vinegar. My main concern is waking up KS to these ridiculous statement of all is happy and fine. I have thought of emailing him personally but if he decides to cut me off then I will have absolutely no influence in righting this ship at all. I'm doing what I feel I can and what is appropriate, having all of your help might improve things. I already proposed to some to have us resend the 10 questions asking for more information and additional clarification on several of the questions.

I don't think that will be effective. I notice the only time Kevin responds is on FB. I've been posting when he releases his murmurs. It might help if more people posted in a polite manner their dissatisfaction.

Mike1975 wrote:
Point being the backers that are yelling and screaming and calling them liars and anyone that supports them as psychophants or shills does absolutely no good and makes it even harder for that backer's concerns to be taken seriously.

Not all those folks who completely support the way this KS has been run are sychophants; some just chose to be woefully ignorant and chime in with their feelings oblivious of the facts. Palladium has however lied to us. While the whole "ready to go to manufacture in 45 days" thing might be due to poor planning and reasonable mistakes in entering a new field if off by only a few weeks or even months but being off by more than an order of magnitude and claiming being 98% done when not a single portion of ANY part of the project was even close to that was a blatant lie and that makes them liars. There is no way to explain that one off. The minis RENDERS (let alone approvals and sprue layouts) weren't close to completion. The rules weren't close to done and have been changed over the past year. The art wasn't done either seeing as how they're still working on the painting guide. No part of any aspect of this project was done within the 45 day period before supposed manufacture including even setting up the pledge manager and taking our money. They lied plain and simple.

Mike1975 wrote:
When you have a bunch of backers yelling and screaming "we want more" constantly I think it likely that PB also feels that we the backers also should be adults and not need to be coddled. When we look at things the best way is to try to see both sides and figure out the best way to get the most out of them. Like catching more flies with honey than vinegar.

Palladium have approached the management of this project like a 3 year old who doesn't yet know that fibbing is naughty. They say want they want to believe facts be damned and just hope that we don't notice. Ninja Division has effectively disowned this and taken the part of the "I don't care" preteen in this family drama. Unfortunately, it is up to backers to play the part of stern parents as much as they can (since we largely have no power beyond annoying palladium and creating bad press). Palladium has proven that they needed to be called on every mistake because they'll cheat more than a TFG in a tourney with no oversight if given the chance.

Unfortunately, much like a small child, you can't just assume Palladium has done their homework. Heck, you can't even just ask them if they did because they'll lie about it. You need to make them show you their homework to double check it is done before letting them go to bed. That unfortunately is the current (and unfortunately long standing) state of project management at this veteran RPG company with decades of work under their belts and backers are doing their best to roleplay the stern parents to Palladium's immature man-child manner of business.

When I back a kickstarter it's usually a small business, or a brand new business so I try and grant a little extra leeway in hiccups in communications or difficulty getting a project launched. But Palladiuam is not a new wet behind the ears company, they've been around for 30+ years so even if they are new to making plastic-robot-mans they certainly shouldn't have to be learning the ropes on how to communicate with their customer base. They are "industry veterans" that have had 30 years to figure that out.

Not saying that there's not some major hurdles in getting a large line of plastic out there, but as an established business they should have their feet well grounded in the customer service department. If half of what I've read on their forums is correct they are at a complete loss on how to implement common technology that the rest of the world started using 20 years ago. Email? what's that? In order to contact Palladium they list their phone number, but not email. You can go through the PITA of filling out a help request ticket, which if you need to send in multiple times sucks . How hard is it to maintain a proper email address for a business? GW does it, PP does it, Heck I can even email the guys at ND if I want. Virtually every company I can think of is available by email, Palladium is the only one I know of that isn't. Even if it's directed to a info address or customer contact desk it's better then request tickets (the response time is usually pretty fast with those other companies, days not weeks).

So even if I were trying to contact them about one of the rpg products that has nothing to do with Robotech it makes it much more difficult then it needs to be. If I had a quick question about one of their rpgs I basically have to call them during office hours and hope I get connected with the right person. It may not seem like a big deal but it can be very intimidating, lots of people would rather just fire off a simple email and not need to worry about hunting down answers in a direct phone call. You also can send emails or have them answered at a very casual pace. Phone calls can be disruptive and take up excessive amounts time, I'd think that having the phone ringing off the hook at my business would likely detract from my workflow. Every time I need to break from work to answer a phone means more downtime and also time spent mentally refreshing before I can plunge back into work as it usually takes a moment or two to remember where you left off and get back into that train of thought. Emails you can answer/address when you are ready and its convenient.

Playing phone tag sucks and in this day and age there's very little reason to do it, most of what customers need can be handled by emails, even if they aren't answered for a day or two it saves a lot of frustration and headache vs trying to pin somebody down on the phone for a simple answer.

Kevin for years has made posts about how many countless hours they all pile into their projects, it may be that they are slaving away churning out word after word for their products, but it may also be possible that part of the delays are due to an insistence on using phones and snail mail for primary contact which continually introduces interruption.

Also from what I've read until recently KS has used wax boards to set up all his stuff for printing, which was a dated process even back in the 70s. It takes forever and day to do that by hand when you can do it on a word processor or a program like In Design. Being a creature of habit is fine, but living too far in the past can severely cripple productivity. This isn't a bash against them, when running a business it's easy to get set in a routine and lose track o f where time and effort is going, but maybe they need to have somebody from outside the company come in and look at their process objectively and see where all that time is going.

When they announce they want to hit 12-13 books a year but deliver on 3, they are either seriously overestimating their ability, or if that estimate is to be believed then they have some serious internal time management issues they need to streamline, which is where a business consultant would be advisable to help figure out where the problems are occurring.

Sorry Mike, I disagree with you completely. A competent project manager would have taken this whole mess, come up with a plan of action and implemented it.
Unhappy customers exist in every field, not just the World of Palladium, if they haven't learnt how to deal with that in a professional manner after this long...
While I appreciate your efforts on this game, you've just turned to "victim bashing", there was nothing the backers could do to influence this project once the funding was collected, you can add me to the list of people ignored by Palladium despite polite communication, before the hate went too far in the comments. Palladium don't care.

 paulson games wrote:
When they announce they want to hit 12-13 books a year but deliver on 3, they are either seriously overestimating their ability, or if that estimate is to be believed then they have some serious internal time management issues they need to streamline, which is where a business consultant would be advisable to help figure out where the problems are occurring.

You're sadly underestimating the level of fail they've achieved. They hoped for 20+ in 2013... and got one of those planned books out. They did get two more done but one was supposed to be a 2012 title so was a year late post crowdfunding and the other unannounced one was barely a book at 48 pages. The new goal post fresh from the presses yesterday is 4-6 books this summer. I assume they're including the one that is currently at the printer that was crowdfunded in July 2012 and supposed to be out 2-3 months after that.

delete

It is a fact I was lied to on the readiness of PB going to manufacture and more pointedly when we were able to order more models with the backer kit.

It is a fact at this moment I have no information of the state of readiness for each element that makes up "wave 1".

After the release of "wave 1" I think I have few means to put pressure on PB to get the rest of the models to me in the next two years (or possibly ever).

The moments of admitting having "no idea" of progress at various points of the build with Kevin has made zero sense as much as the various statements of 98% completion and "mouth watering" results. Having met him I really think he is a narcissist (personal opinion and having worked with a few) and he will lie to himself quite readily so his opinion of progress is suspect.

This is as stated, a well known process done for well over 3 decades where expert estimation and planning is readily available for injection molding.

There are model kits of the self-same models they are trying to make already in the marketplace for reference.

I have a fairly good understanding of design and manufacture and some experience with managing Chinese manufacturing. I really see no excuse especially with money in hand for PB to not have their facts in order or to at least get a good answer from the experts..

The only anger I would have with this matter is allowing myself to think with other groups involved this project would be "different" than prior PB projects: it is not.

I hear the white knights getting all huffy with "be thankful the models of your dreams GET to be made". They had been out there for decades. But now you can play them with rules! It was called Battletech.

I figure that going into the new year I will find a way to cut my losses with them at whatever point we are at. If it goes into summer of next year does anyone think that is more than adequate to say this kickstarter was not fulfilled?

By the time things hit stores I suspect the momentum will be long gone.

Having read some in another thread, and going through the Myth updates, they shed a little light on how Chinese manufacturing goes. Here is my one big question:

How did the retards at PB lock up manufacturing slots for May/June for these HUGE runs without satisfying the requirements for final prototypes and mold cutting well in advance?? Every other company that is churning out miniatures had their stuff finalized well WELL before the actual output of the figures. Plus, Myth is struggling with the fact that their 2nd wave stuff couldn't all be manufactured at the same time. The factory they were using didn't have enough open space to do it.

But we're supposed to believe that PB has a company that has a solid 4-6 weeks of free open space to allot them and make their plastic man-dollies. If the current trend of PB ineptness is as bad as it seems, I'm not sure they've secured print time.

Does anyone know what the factory needs to secure slots? I imagine they have criteria and a cutoff point, and if you get bumped too many times, I imagine you go to the end of the line and don't have any leverage besides cash at some point. PBs buffoonery knows no bounds...

 Talizvar wrote:
By the time things hit stores I suspect the momentum will be long gone.

I do think there'll be an uptick of momentum when this project finally gets released. I am concerned that it'll be overwhelmed by secondary market concerns and may cause that momentum to flame out quickly. If the quality of the models aren't what is promised (and we know what a PB promise is worth), rather than what they appear to be, it's quite possible the "bank run" on RTT sales will stick a fork in the project.

And with retailers likely expecting to sell it without steep discounts, I'm skeptical it can recover. PB defenders will occasionally point out that at under $1.50 per figure, the quality of the miniatures isn't bad. And they may have a point. But at over $8 a figure at retail (everything except vanilla Regults, and individual configurations of Valks at $6), they're most definitely not. "But there's internet discounters!" they respond. Yeah, because retailers love it when the product they're wanting to sell, and willing to give shelf/table space to, gets severely undercut by internet dealers.

Couple that with an apparent lack of organized/tourney support (there may be more going on behind the scenes, but I doubt it), and in my wildest dreams, I can't see this flying off the shelf. There's nothing intrinsically bad about it, for the price and quality we're seeing, but this game is IMO 10-20 years too late. I had high hopes, and I do hope it succeeds (cause it's apparently the only way I'll get my money back), but the longer this goes, the less likely I see that happening.

And missing a second KS Update just weeks after promising to do better, with some significant questions and info still needing to be answered (remember, the last official Update has them shipping to backers in 7 weeks, and they still haven't started production). But everyone at Penguicon loved it! Including "several dozen" Kickstarter backers who thought it was AMAZING! Yet not a single one that went out of their way to go to the convention, and talk to Kevin (so, obviously big fans) has commented on either the Kickstarter comments or the Palladium Forums about their experience, even just pointing out how they're not so horrible in person, let alone "delighted", "amazing" (the most common refrain) or "Perfect. They are absolutely perfect.”. Yeah, I wanna call bull-manure on that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Salacious Greed wrote:
But we're supposed to believe that PB has a company that has a solid 4-6 weeks of free open space to allot them and make their plastic man-dollies. If the current trend of PB ineptness is as bad as it seems, I'm not sure they've secured print time.

Does anyone know what the factory needs to secure slots? I imagine they have criteria and a cutoff point, and if you get bumped too many times, I imagine you go to the end of the line and don't have any leverage besides cash at some point. PBs buffoonery knows no bounds...

While it's obviously bound by the specific contract in place, yes, it's likely most places require some level of completion before progressing, but there's usually a deposit required for the slot, with a non-refundable component. Similarly, the ability to delay production while still staying at the front of the line, can be done easily, but requires a significantly higher deposit (and a renewal of the non-refundable section for each pushback) to maintain priority. And again, if another project is started, the production company are still likely to complete that, as changing molds then changing back is both expensive, time consuming, and can lead to other issues (we once broke a mold getting it out of the mountings, if that happened after starting production, but before completing it, all hell would have broken loose) that the company aren't likely to deal with.

So, with 7 weeks to go until PB start shipping from Michigan (and with another week before they get the Veri PPPrototypes, let alone a test sprue) I doubt giving the go-ahead will result in an immediate start. It'll depend on what's been scheduled before that.

Admittedly, my experience is 30 years old, and in a different medium (metal alloys, not plastic), and while I can see production models changing, I can't see the business models changing THAT much.

Morgan you are totally right.

I ponted out on the KS comments that Penguincon was just smoke and mirrors, at best the "wow factor" models on show were those from GAMA and any demos must have used the figures and boards from last years Gencon. This is the real reason why there are no pics, the KS community would have seen straight through the lies they posted on their site.

Now someone claims to have the full rulebook and will be demoning next week, posting the gamplay videos, but it it not officially PB....WTF. Okay he has the inside track but this rulebook must have been ready to go weeks ago, so why not let the backers know, What is he using for demos - the old stuff above or new kits - again let us know.

Okay got that out of my system, so can I just put in a kind word for Mike. He comes in for a lot of flak here and on the KS. However in all fairness at least he keeps coming back trying to keep us informed, as best he can. Yes sometimes we do not like the news but that is no reason to shoot the messenger.

The guy with the rulebook is one of the lead playtesters and one of the two folks (the other being Paulson Games here on dakka) who got the Robotech minis game ball rolling a few years ago. It is likely he has a working copy of the rules as a playtester but who knows how recent it is. I doubt the youtube video will show him leafing through every page and about the only way we'd know would be if he did that and it showed all the painting guides that they've been working on.

I find it hard to believe that there isn't a single report or photo out there of Palladium in action at Penguincon!