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What's heavy gear? Joking aside I have no idea how it compares with RRT as I haven't been following it. My interest in them waned after they changed scales, not sure which time that was... which is kind of the root of the issue, more then one scale change wtf?


I don't know this for certain but I recall seeing it mentioned that a typically modern injection machine can spit out a sprue roughly every 3 seconds? I know that for certain simple parts they have machines that can spit stuff out about every half second but they are super simple design making single piece parts and not sprues (sprues require more cooling to remove sucessfully) I've seen video footage of injection machines spitting out simple one piece items like a machine gun which was pretty impressive.

The machines all require a warm up period to reach maximum output speed although I don't think it's very long. I'm not an expert in plastics by any means so I may be off on the 3 second estimate but I recall seeing somewhere when I was researching for trying to get my own line done in plastic. The demold time is impacted by the amount of material volume, thickness of parts and the number of cavities so it an vary a lot. Thinner parts cool faster and can be removed sooner, thicker parts take longer.

Once the machines are rolling they can spit out a pretty impressive volume of stuff so I wouldn't expect that stage of the process to take all that long. Where I see potential delays coming from is with the packaging and container shipping everything as that tends to be pretty random and most other KS projects that have had items shipped from China run into lot of delays. The delays from container shipment are obviously not in the control of PB/ND but are a likely element.

Morgan Vening wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Morgan Vening wrote:
I think you guys are being incredibly cynical. All you guys do is bitch, bitch, moan. You don't see me doing that! Since when have Palladium not lived up to expectations, failed to deliver on promises, misrepresented (through either deceit or ignorance, obviously neither) the facts, or missed deadlines? Have faith, people! Palladium shall deliver!

Not sure if serious?

I mean, was that sarcasm (I hope) or a joke?

I...can't tell.

Ahhh. Poe's Law. It's a force of nature.

Poe's Law - Without a blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of extremism or fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing.

I thought I'd maybe gone too whackadoodle to not have it apply, but apparently not. That's both funny, and really really sad at the same time.

I hate to break this to you, but it wasn't that stupendous an example of anything too clever.

Chalk it up to the toneless nature of the Internet more than anything else.

By the Origin pics looks like Ninja Division is there, promoting all their non-Robotech games.

 paulson games wrote:
By the Origin pics looks like Ninja Division is there, promoting all their non-Robotech games.

Lemme guess, like Adepticon, nobody told Palladium?

How big is Origins as a miniatures event? I know it's not Adepticon, but it seems strange that one of the last big cons before GenCon has no apparent Robotech Tactics presence. Wouldn't that be time to get the buzz started with an in-depth showing off of the game?

Obviously, we don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but there's quite a few obvious allusions that can be made from some simple questions. Why aren't PB there? If PB aren't there, why aren't ND promoting the product? Be interesting to see how it plays out over the next three months.

Origins is more Boardgames and less miniatures.

I think that's a cop out. Origins I would say is heavily oriented towards miniatures and wargames. This SHOULD be the con to go to. It may not be GW centric like Adepticon, which should work in their favor.

"Origins Game Fair 2014 is one of North America’s most prominent annual gaming conventions. Origins takes place each year in Columbus, Ohio at the Greater Columbus Convention Center.

Origins is run by The Game Manufacturers Association (GAMA). Origins was chartered to serve gaming in general, including wargames and miniatures gaming, which at the time tended to be less well represented at Gen Con and Dragon*Con. Board games, trading card games, LARPs and role-playing games are also popular at Origins."

vitae_drinker wrote:
I think that's a cop out. Origins I would say is heavily oriented towards miniatures and wargames. This SHOULD be the con to go to. It may not be GW centric like Adepticon, which should work in their favor.

"Origins Game Fair 2014 is one of North America’s most prominent annual gaming conventions. Origins takes place each year in Columbus, Ohio at the Greater Columbus Convention Center.

Origins is run by The Game Manufacturers Association (GAMA). Origins was chartered to serve gaming in general, including wargames and miniatures gaming, which at the time tended to be less well represented at Gen Con and Dragon*Con. Board games, trading card games, LARPs and role-playing games are also popular at Origins."

As someone who has exhibited at Origins and is a member of GAMA, the con is more for board gamers than miniature games.

Gen Con is for everyone, and Adepticon is miniatures of all flavors.

 Cyporiean wrote:
As someone who has exhibited at Origins and is a member of GAMA, the con is more for board gamers than miniature games.

Gen Con is for everyone, and Adepticon is miniatures of all flavors.

Still, zero presence, especially when an "equal partner" is in attendance, when they've finally got actual product to show off, seems like a strange move.

Yeah, there are people on the PB Forums that insist Ninja Division aren't subcontractors/subordinate, but "equal partners" in this endeavor. Usually, so they can deflect any criticism of PB's bungling of the project to "PB aren't mismanaging their job as project leader, they're not the ones in charge!". It's possible, I suppose, but doesn't explain why ND don't apparently have any RRT presence here, much as they didn't at Adepticon.

There may be other reasons, but it's less than a 4 hour drive. One or two representatives, a back seat full of samples, and hell, get Ninja John to bring the painted Regult stuff down and cost-share the booth with them. Just seems like a wasted opportunity. Especially when they went full gamut at Penguicon that had 1,377 people, and apparently NO miniatures gaming presence, and skip out completely on a Origins which seems to attract 10-11K, and at least has a modest miniature presence (approx 500 of 4500 events are tagged as miniatures, literally 100 of those listed being Battletech, and with games like X-Wing being put into Tabletop).

Out of curiosity, what did ND bring to Origins? I've only seen SDE in some Facebook pics. Do they have Anima, Helldorado, Relic Knights, or Megaman?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A shinobi has informed me that ND is at Denver Comic Con, not origins, this weekend.

If PB are at any con they'd have to answer questions, which we all know, is beyond their abilities.
Oh god, what if when they sell these at Gencon, Wayne has to use a register! The line will never move! Kevin will claim due to the perfectness they had a line of customers all day!

vitae_drinker wrote:
I think that's a cop out. Origins I would say is heavily oriented towards miniatures and wargames.

No it isn't.

It's primarily board games and RPGs.

Looks like they at least have some models in the display case at the convention. I don't think the assembled versions of scout pod or light missile pod have been shown in any of the updates yet?

From the FB RRT page: (at Denver Con?)

No they haven't, They look good together, they must be the ones ND painted for their FB updates.

I'm actually excited again, nothing like the heady heights of the actual Kickstarter countdown, but the cautious optimism of seeing a Thai girl in a bar and not seeing a prominent Adams apple . . .

Thanks for posting the pic. They even put them on correct AND consistent bases! That already is improvement on the GAMA display by the other equal partner.

The thing I don't understand is why they don't have pictures of the scouts and art pods in their official updates? Instead they let info trickle out through secondary means. It seems like a poor choice to let fans at a convention reveal the info with blurry out of focus photos when you have several thousand backers starving for any sort of official communication. Is it that fething hard to treat your backers with respect and keep them clued in on the actual state of progress? Instead everyone gets updates full of pointless buzzwords and no meat.

Probably because they are idiots,

although it's possible that these are painted printed protoypes
so they don't want to show them ?

Or maybe all painted minis have to go off to HG who have to approve the paint as 'authentic and OK' and these either failed that test or are waiting to be approved?

Is it just me or are the seams on the glaugs arms still pretty obvious?

 paulson games wrote:
It seems like a poor choice...

That is kind of the defacto motto of this campaign similar to the "Almost..." coined for Mantic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Smilodon_UP wrote:

Is everyone really sure this isn't the Heavy Gear rant thread... it reads so much the same?

Well...they do both involve robot anime from decades past being worked on by companies past their prime... and me. Hopefully my fandom isn't the common thread!

 warboss wrote:

 Smilodon_UP wrote:

Is everyone really sure this isn't the Heavy Gear rant thread... it reads so much the same?

Well...they do both involve robot anime from decades past being worked on by companies past their prime... and me. Hopefully my fandom isn't the common thread!

Probably is. You're a very patient man.

So, they're finally getting this going?

-Brandon F.

Edit: Also, not meaning the patience part in a bad way, warboss.

Second Edit: Dang, do I kill threads now??????

Sining wrote:
Is it just me or are the seams on the glaugs arms still pretty obvious?

Well, I can see it from here, so... I'd say they still are pretty obvious, yes ^^

warboss wrote:Well...they do both involve robot anime from decades past being worked on by companies past their prime... and me. Hopefully my fandom isn't the common thread!

Well if that's true then it also applies to me >_>

BrandonKF wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Smilodon_UP wrote:

Is everyone really sure this isn't the Heavy Gear rant thread... it reads so much the same?

Well...they do both involve robot anime from decades past being worked on by companies past their prime... and me. Hopefully my fandom isn't the common thread!

Probably is. You're a very patient man.

So, they're finally getting this going?

-Brandon F.

Edit: Also, not meaning the patience part in a bad way, warboss.

Second Edit: Dang, do I kill threads now??????

No worries, I didn't take it any bad way. I'm not too sure about patient but I am lazy. I'll be starting to work finally on the nucoal gears that I bought 1-2 years ago to tide me over till Robotech gets here. If Robotech takes even longer, I'll start working on my truescale Deathwatch marines (now with a terminator "captain"!).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:
Well if that's true then it also applies to me >_>

Clearly we're both suckers with very poor judgement!

Bah and humbug to that. Both of ya'll are good eggs.

-Brandon F.

 paulson games wrote:
What's heavy gear? Joking aside I have no idea how it compares with RRT as I haven't been following it. My interest in them waned after they changed scales, not sure which time that was... which is kind of the root of the issue, more then one scale change wtf?

To be picky, Heavy Gear had one scale change in the late 90s, then some recent-ish resculpts that tended to add/subtract a millimeter or two from canoncially larger/smaller models, or in some casesfixing models that were not to scale (a few tanks).

 Balance wrote:

 paulson games wrote:
What's heavy gear? Joking aside I have no idea how it compares with RRT as I haven't been following it. My interest in them waned after they changed scales, not sure which time that was... which is kind of the root of the issue, more then one scale change wtf?

To be picky, Heavy Gear had one scale change in the late 90s, then some recent-ish resculpts that tended to add/subtract a millimeter or two from canoncially larger/smaller models, or in some casesfixing models that were not to scale (a few tanks).

I know of the physical scale (miniatures being different sizes), but wasn't there a mechanical/force scale at the same time as well when it went Blitz? ie, number of units per side, changed significantly? Or was that done at the same time?

I know I've seen the force scale on GW increase significantly since I last played. The latest WHFB rules don't look horrible, but the sheer number of figures now needed is off the deep end. For me, that's mostly a deterrence to starting. Robotech Tactics was going to be my first non-skirmish game since WH40K 2nd Ed. And what a debacle of a ride it's been.

Morgan Vening wrote:

 Balance wrote:

 paulson games wrote:
What's heavy gear? Joking aside I have no idea how it compares with RRT as I haven't been following it. My interest in them waned after they changed scales, not sure which time that was... which is kind of the root of the issue, more then one scale change wtf?

To be picky, Heavy Gear had one scale change in the late 90s, then some recent-ish resculpts that tended to add/subtract a millimeter or two from canoncially larger/smaller models, or in some casesfixing models that were not to scale (a few tanks).

I know of the physical scale (miniatures being different sizes), but wasn't there a mechanical/force scale at the same time as well when it went Blitz? ie, number of units per side, changed significantly? Or was that done at the same time?

I know I've seen the force scale on GW increase significantly since I last played. The latest WHFB rules don't look horrible, but the sheer number of figures now needed is off the deep end. For me, that's mostly a deterrence to starting. Robotech Tactics was going to be my first non-skirmish game since WH40K 2nd Ed. And what a debacle of a ride it's been.

Yeah, that has bounced around a bit, but please keep in mind that the early material was more Battletech-like in some ways (system-level damage, lots of ammo tracking) due to the RPG compatibilitywhich has been pretty much removed from current rules.

 Balance wrote:
Yeah, that has bounced around a bit, but please keep in mind that the early material was more Battletech-like in some ways (system-level damage, lots of ammo tracking) due to the RPG compatibilitywhich has been pretty much removed from current rules.

Actually, that's a common misconception, but it's not entirely true. Although it's true that the miniature rules of HG had the same detailed damage rules from the RPG, it was not the default system. The default damage system for the miniature rules was damage levels, very similar to the current Blitz damage levels, but without Sturdy boxes. Like so:

Light Damage
Units that receive Light Damage are mildly shaken up by the attack, but not seriously damaged. Place a Light Damage counter on the unit's base or make a note on the datacard. If, at any time, a unit register two Light Damage hits, both are immediately removed and replaced with a single Heavy Damage result (see below).

For simplicity and speed of game play, Light Damage has no adverse effects, and a Light Damage unit may operate at full power; the only danger is that if the unit gets another Light Damage hit, it will get Heavy Damage.

Heavy Damage
Units that receive a Heavy Damage result are permanently affected. They follow the 'rule of halves:' values for MP allowance(s) and weapon damage are all halved, rounding up. A Heavy Damage result may not be removed from a unit; it stays until the unit is killed (or repaired after the battle).

If a unit ever has two Heavy Damage results placed on it, it is immediately Overkilled. Overkilled units are immediately eliminated from the game and are removed from the board in a spectacular explosion.

Overkill
An Overkill hit results in the vehicle being removed from play. This may or may not result in the total destruction of the vehicle. Due to the abstractness of Tactical level play, the vehicle may be destroyed, or it may just have suffered enough damage to make it inoperable - the distinction matters little to the commander, who has just lost a unit.

You may wish to have extra detail in the way damage is handled during game play. If all Players agree, use the more detailed Silhouette standard damage resolution procedure, as detailed in the Advanced Rules chapter (see page 44). It requires additional bookkeeping, however, and may not be suited to very large engagements.

As you can see, the RPG damage system was given as optional, and not recommended for very large engagements. So there

Albertorius, I was thinking more of the 1st edition 'Heavy Gear: A New Era Has Begun' that I think used complex damage as the default for the rules. I could be wrong, though.

 Balance wrote:
Albertorius, I was thinking more of the 1st edition 'Heavy Gear: A New Era Has Begun' that I think used complex damage as the default for the rules. I could be wrong, though.

Well, that one was an RPG, you know...

 Albertorius wrote:

 Balance wrote:
Albertorius, I was thinking more of the 1st edition 'Heavy Gear: A New Era Has Begun' that I think used complex damage as the default for the rules. I could be wrong, though.

Well, that one was an RPG, you know...

That time corresponds to the scale change which happened IIRC right before 2nd edition of the RPG which is what the original question was about. I remember because over 1 year both my miniatures and my collection of rpg books were invalidated by Dp9. The minis changing scale was the first big FU and the abandoning of the RPG edition after only a couple of years was the final nail in that coffin. I didn't bother with DP9 for almost a decade after that. Paulson was referring to the old 1st edition RPG era in the mid 1990's, not the early '00s tactical silhouette era.

Yeah - I was pretty heavy into the minis and books before the scale change. That alone was enough for me to sell them all off and never touch DP9 stuff again.