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 Talizvar wrote:
I maintain that by signing over our money that in Palladium's eyes we are irrelevant.

The only fans they will cater to are the ones that for some silly reason have not handed over their money yet.

That was what I meant to say but in retrospect it wasn't worded clearly so I'll edit it.


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 Forar wrote:

What's funny is that, while they do already have our money, there's also the possibility for some of us completionist types to be a 'sure thing' for future sales. Hell, I wouldn't mind snagging a YF-4 squadron, as I'd already spent beyond what I probably should've during the campaign as it was. That's a retail purchase there, and add in some infantry or something and an individual backer could be good for hundreds of dollars apiece at local shops or online retailers.

The max/miriya debacle last year pissed me off enough to drop my intended pledge manager spending to only a box or two instead of the couple hundred completionist amount I initially planned...and in retrospect, I couldn't be happier. The only thing I may buy would be a box of zent infantry but I can live without the multiple glaug sleds, MACs, supers, VF-4, armored VF, counters, etc that I planned to add to my battlecry pledge.

Mike1975 wrote:
I would have been happier with 1990's battletech quality minis that are 5-6 pieces, I don't really care about massive poseability. Something clean and easy would have been better for me and new players to the market. For the price of these retail they could almost have done Gashapon equivalents of each unit.

http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00077/Gsh

Just wanted to point out the models you refer to are made in 2008. But I do thought I would be getting the same quality as those models from the Robotech kickstarter.

wufai wrote:

Mike1975 wrote:
I would have been happier with 1990's battletech quality minis that are 5-6 pieces, I don't really care about massive poseability. Something clean and easy would have been better for me and new players to the market. For the price of these retail they could almost have done Gashapon equivalents of each unit.

http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00077/Gsh

Just wanted to point out the models you refer to are made in 2008. But I do thought I would be getting the same quality as those models from the Robotech kickstarter.

I think Mike's referencing two separate things. Both that 20+ year old BT models would have been better than what we're getting, and given the retail price, we could have gotten those prepainted Gashapon things. At $44US for 10, that's $4.40 apiece, compared to $33 for 6, or $5.50 apiece. If it wasn't for the randomness, and the limited range, something that $1.44million dollars would have gone a long way to circumventing, they're straight up better than what we're getting IMO (though admittedly, I'm not a modeller/painter, and that may have been a drawcard for some).

Don't get me wrong, if it wasn't for the parts count, I think the existing models are (barely) serviceable. But they're not the "world class sculpts" promised. I've seen nothing that would be categorized as amazing, perfect, or have me literally jumping up and down or gushing about the detail and quality. Which are apparently all Palladium have heard. There's a strange dichotomy there.

Morgan Vening wrote:

wufai wrote:

Mike1975 wrote:
I would have been happier with 1990's battletech quality minis that are 5-6 pieces, I don't really care about massive poseability. Something clean and easy would have been better for me and new players to the market. For the price of these retail they could almost have done Gashapon equivalents of each unit.

http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00077/Gsh

Just wanted to point out the models you refer to are made in 2008. But I do thought I would be getting the same quality as those models from the Robotech kickstarter.

I think Mike's referencing two separate things. Both that 20+ year old BT models would have been better than what we're getting, and given the retail price, we could have gotten those prepainted Gashapon things. At $44US for 10, that's $4.40 apiece, compared to $33 for 6, or $5.50 apiece. If it wasn't for the randomness, and the limited range, something that $1.44million dollars would have gone a long way to circumventing, they're straight up better than what we're getting IMO (though admittedly, I'm not a modeller/painter, and that may have been a drawcard for some).

Don't get me wrong, if it wasn't for the parts count, I think the existing models are (barely) serviceable. But they're not the "world class sculpts" promised. I've seen nothing that would be categorized as amazing, perfect, or have me literally jumping up and down or gushing about the detail and quality. Which are apparently all Palladium have heard. There's a strange dichotomy there.

If this game used prepainted, or at least preassembled figures, I would have spent a stupid amount of money on it. Looking at what the game comes with, I am glad I didn't take part in the kickstarter or preorder any of the figures. Plenty of Robotech license holders have shown we can get more (and often better) product for less.

I was looking at these for Unseen replacements mostly.

I'm going to continue looking elsewhere.

@Mike M: Thanks for putting up the videos. You have an interesting taste in background music as well! Any chance of putting up a battle with FPA/Q-Raus?

Morgan Vening wrote:
I think Mike's referencing two separate things. Both that 20+ year old BT models would have been better than what we're getting, and given the retail price, we could have gotten those prepainted Gashapon things. At $44US for 10, that's $4.40 apiece, compared to $33 for 6, or $5.50 apiece. If it wasn't for the randomness, and the limited range, something that $1.44million dollars would have gone a long way to circumventing, they're straight up better than what we're getting IMO (though admittedly, I'm not a modeller/painter, and that may have been a drawcard for some).

Don't get me wrong, if it wasn't for the parts count, I think the existing models are (barely) serviceable. But they're not the "world class sculpts" promised. I've seen nothing that would be categorized as amazing, perfect, or have me literally jumping up and down or gushing about the detail and quality. Which are apparently all Palladium have heard. There's a strange dichotomy there.

Well, I AM a modeller, and it was the models that got me hooked on this KS. I don't have anything in wave 1 as my entire pledge was for the special characters and the resin SDF-1 just for the model value. I am still not happy at the delay, and whilst the quality of the models is not the worst I have ever seen - at least they don't have raised panel lines like the Airfix Angel Interceptor from Captain Scarlet or the Revell Babylon 5 Starfury - they are not even 'Average' quality for a modeller, never mind the Perfect that PB seem to be giving them.

I can understand some of the parts count as you can't have undercuts in HIPS and slide-core tooling is much more expensive. That does not excuse what appears to be badly miss-aligned locating pins on those VF arms or the pictures showing huge gaps at parts joins. Still, I have seen worse and a modicum of skill and the correct materials will produce some stunning results. It's just that I don't expect the average player to necessarily be interested in doing that, never mind have the knowledge and skill to do so.

I am so close to attempting to get my money back, but I also want the models as I have been a fan of the source material for almost as long as I can remember.

Ok, just saw this on the Robotech Tactics "Unofficial" Facebook page:

" Hi Guys, I believe Mike crossposted this for me earlier but I just wanted to put this up to be sure. For financial reasons I'm looking for someone to take over my pledge. I've confirmed with Palladium that they do allow for pledge transfers* and actually handle the money themselves on them*.
My pledge was:
"$260 - SHOWDOWN: Showdown backers receive x2 of all BATTLE CRY contents. Including any unlocked rewards.
---Add-Ons Selected---
SDF-1 Qty: 2 x $20.00
Special Edition Resin SDF-1 Kickstarter Exclusive
YF-4 Valkyrie Qty: 1 x $30.00
2x YF-4 Valkyries, includes Fighter, Guardian, and Battloid Modes, YF-4 Game Cards.
MKII Monster Qty: 2 x $40.00
1x Mk.II Monster.
Homecoming Qty: 1 x $25.00
Add a Homecoming pledge to your base pledge.
Includes two 17x11 prints, signed by Kevin Siembieda.
Armored Valkyries Qty: 1 x $20.00
4x Armored Valkyrie Battloids."
for a total of $455.
Anybody interested in taking it over can email me at DELETED or msg me through Facebook. Much appreciated!
*-The procedure outlined by Jeff Burke at Palladium was:
1) Buyer and seller both email Palladium confirming their info and intent.
2) Buyer mails check to Palladium,
3) When Palladium receives the check they reassign the pledge to the buyer and send out a refund check to the seller/original backer."

Are you BLANKITY BLANK kidding me? They want the buyer of a product someone sold to mail THEM a check, and then mail out the seller a refund check? All they should have to do is change the shipping address on the pledge, right? Or am I off in thinking this is completely beyond the pale?

EDIT: And why a check? They could paypal it to them, and then instantly paypal it to the seller. Do they not use credit cards? Oh my god this ticks me off. Idiocy, pure idiocy.

Why a check? For the same reason that Palladium does layouts by hand and really only resolves issues via phone; they're not exactly current on technology.

Why have them do it via Palladium instead of just changing the shipping address? So they get the 10% of the pledge that KickStarter/Amazon ate of course. A $445 pledge sold to another person translates to a profit of about $40 for Palladium on the transaction, which is well worth the labor cost of cutting a check.

So, those questions at least have perfectly rational, if somewhat annoying/infuriating, answers.

EDIT: thinking further it depends if they issue a full refund I suppose. If they do, then yes it's just an utter waste of everyone's time but they're not making extra money.

 warboss wrote:
@Mike M: Thanks for putting up the videos. You have an interesting taste in background music as well! Any chance of putting up a battle with FPA/Q-Raus?

I did post a second game with FPA on the Facebook page but they are so short ranged I had to rethink my strategy for them. I will see about another game with FPA in a few weeks. I've been on vacation.

Ah, thanks for the update. I'll have to wait for that to hit the GOG youtube channel as that is where I've been watching them.

 jacobus wrote:

Anybody interested in taking it over can email me at DELETED or msg me through Facebook. Much appreciated!
*-The procedure outlined by Jeff Burke at Palladium was:
1) Buyer and seller both email Palladium confirming their info and intent.
2) Buyer mails check to Palladium,
3) When Palladium receives the check they reassign the pledge to the buyer and send out a refund check to the seller/original backer."

Are you BLANKITY BLANK kidding me? They want the buyer of a product someone sold to mail THEM a check, and then mail out the seller a refund check? All they should have to do is change the shipping address on the pledge, right? Or am I off in thinking this is completely beyond the pale?

EDIT: And why a check? They could paypal it to them, and then instantly paypal it to the seller. Do they not use credit cards? Oh my god this ticks me off. Idiocy, pure idiocy.

Or, you know, they're simply not willing to trust that one complete stranger talked the other complete stranger into handing over a $400 pre-order without some sort of tangible proof. After all, everything you read on a forum or in an e-mail is completely true and honest, right?

As far as Pay Pal or credit card, those would be extra fees for the money.

Sure, it's probably at partially "We don't want to have to deal with this, but we have to, so you all are going to have to do it the old fashioned way," but it's at worst just old fashioned and cheap.

 solkan wrote:
Or, you know, they're simply not willing to trust that one complete stranger talked the other complete stranger into handing over a $400 pre-order without some sort of tangible proof. After all, everything you read on a forum or in an e-mail is completely true and honest, right?

Why does that matter? As the owner of a pledge, if I email the company and tell them that [a) I'm gifting my pledge b) I've sold my pledge c) something else] why should it matter who I'm changing the shipping information to?

As far as Pay Pal or credit card, those would be extra fees for the money.

And at this point it's a cost of doing business. They're literally profiting off of this exchange for near zero effort simply because they aren't building in the kickstarter fees for pledge transfers.

Sure, it's probably at partially "We don't want to have to deal with this, but we have to, so you all are going to have to do it the old fashioned way," but it's at worst just old fashioned and cheap.

Which is why it's so stupid. It's 2014. Mailing checks is way behind the times. I'm not even sure where my checkbook is in my house - I haven't used it in at least 6 years.

They aren't profiting off of anyone. If anything they're out the cost of the stamp, and the time to mail it. It makes sense to me- a fail safe to prove that no one hacks an account to steal a pledge. Paranoid, but it makes sense. I thought it was a clever way to exchange pledges without anyone gettin screwed out of money or items.

And I use my checkbook several times a month to pay bills around town. I guess we're behind the times here in Tennessee.

I should add, they aren't making any money off of the transaction if they give the backer a full amount the buyer paid.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
They aren't profiting off of anyone. If anything they're out the cost of the stamp, and the time to mail it. It makes sense to me- a fail safe to prove that no one hacks an account to steal a pledge. Paranoid, but it makes sense. I thought it was a clever way to exchange pledges without anyone gettin screwed out of money or items.

Well if they aren't profiting, then they need to go back and learn how to run a business because that makes no sense.

And I use my checkbook several times a month to pay bills around town. I guess we're behind the times here in Tennessee.

Or you're just old enough that you don't use/trust debit/credit cards. Or have the mentality of an older person, perhaps. Not saying it's a bad thing. The only time I write a check is to renew my registration on my car because the state charges a fee for anything other than cash or check.

I should add, they aren't making any money off of the transaction if they give the backer a full amount the buyer paid.

But why have the money go through their coffers at all? It gives them cash flow, allowing them to show money moving on their books, and to let the money sit in the account for how many business days before they send out the check? 1 day? 10 days? 30 days? When they feel like it? Seems shady to me.

vitae_drinker wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
They aren't profiting off of anyone. If anything they're out the cost of the stamp, and the time to mail it. It makes sense to me- a fail safe to prove that no one hacks an account to steal a pledge. Paranoid, but it makes sense. I thought it was a clever way to exchange pledges without anyone gettin screwed out of money or items.

Well if they aren't profiting, then they need to go back and learn how to run a business because that makes no sense.

And I use my checkbook several times a month to pay bills around town. I guess we're behind the times here in Tennessee.

Or you're just old enough that you don't use/trust debit/credit cards. Or have the mentality of an older person, perhaps. Not saying it's a bad thing. The only time I write a check is to renew my registration on my car because the state charges a fee for anything other than cash or check.

I should add, they aren't making any money off of the transaction if they give the backer a full amount the buyer paid.

But why have the money go through their coffers at all? It gives them cash flow, allowing them to show money moving on their books, and to let the money sit in the account for how many business days before they send out the check? 1 day? 10 days? 30 days? When they feel like it? Seems shady to me.

It's a way to make sure the right people get the right pledge, and a deterrent to keep people from doing it at all would be my guess.

And for your information I use my debit and credit cards for online and out of town transactions. The local water department doesn't take credit/debit, and the bank that has my house loan prefers checks. ALso some places around town(mostly repair shops) don't take credit/debit or checks from new accounts so it helps to use them in other places to get my check numbers up.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
The local water department doesn't take credit/debit, and the bank that has my house loan prefers checks.

Wow, sounds like your living in the 80's

 MangoMadness wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
The local water department doesn't take credit/debit, and the bank that has my house loan prefers checks.

Wow, sounds like your living in the 80's

Welcome to the South- where no one takes credit cards and the schools are still segregated.

Well, latest Update is up, which means hopefully we can move on from the clusterfeth that was U146 (both the stupid claim of what "manufacturing has begun" really meant, and the partisan off topic bickering it descended into.

Update 147

Simple summary, they show all the UEDF sprues half assed (45 degrees off, partially out of focus, with an assembled model in front positioned so it blends into the sprue in the background). And the announcement that they still have not got everything into production yet. So, yay July/August?

Also, looks like some of the perceived options aren't. The open and closed missile doors on the Spartans, for example? You don't get to choose how to configure them. You get one of each. Even though the open bay one looks like pants. EDIT: And the Tomahawks seem to be the same, but with the old Spartan issue, of seams on the bay doors. Hopefully that's one of the adjustments, or it's just Spartangate all over again.

I'm sure someone will do the full page linky thing at some point, but I'm not sure how to do that.

Yes, now the talk can only stupidly be about Hobby Lobby and contraception for an additional 100+ comments like it has been. People need to stop trying to stop comparing who is on the highest horse and remember that the comments are supposed to be about toy soldiers.

I actually recorded video of myself assembling the second Phalanx today, but the camera stopped recording just as I was attaching the legs to the pelvis. I’ll keep working on that.

Palladium.. figuring out 80's tech like home video and debit cards since... well.. the 80's and counting!

Laser Disc, its the movie technology of the future!

 warboss wrote:
Palladium.. figuring out 80's tech like home video and debit cards since... well.. the 80's and counting!

Well, they're still working on both. Or else pledge transfers wouldn't require cheques. I can understand the safeguard of PB as intermediary (in fact, I'm glad for that), but not using electronic funds transfers just seems such a bad way of doing it.


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vitae_drinker wrote:
Laser Disc, its the movie technology of the future!

Hey, they're still rocking it to 8-tracks, I bet.

 warboss wrote:
Yes, now the talk can only stupidly be about Hobby Lobby and contraception for an additional 100+ comments like it has been. People need to stop trying to stop comparing who is on the highest horse and remember that the comments are supposed to be about toy soldiers.

As one of the people debating that topic, I don't think it's entirely tangential, given how many people comment on making their own terrain/modding figures.

I get that not everyone is on the Outrage Train headed for "NO SCREW YOU-Ville" with a brief delay in "No really this is some bullgak" junction, but hey, at least we're not debating what does and does not constitute a seam for the fortieth time.

And I apologize, I recognize it's not quite the place for that debate, but if some donkey caves want to step up, I'm not going to let their lies stand unchallenged.

Edit: and luckily the new update may keep the issue at bay, for now we have more seams to bitch about, and "Tomahawk'gate" to go on about.

Do you even have hobby lobby stores in Canada? If so, a US Supreme Court decision doesn't affect a canadian outlet. If not, then whether or not the cashier has to pay for her own birth control is about as pertinent to the minis kickstarter as whether the tar in the parking lot of michael's is ecofriendly. Obviously I can't stop you from commenting on it and you're free to do so but don't kid yourself that political mudslinging between the I'm so left I'm right! liberals and the my way or the highway! conservatives is on topic or helpful just because you may someday drive 500 miles to the US to buy some flock for your robotech bases (or in your case abstain from doing it).

I find that human rights transcend borders.

Canada is far from spotless on its civil/human rights record, before anyone accuses me of thinking that my gak don't stink, but just because I live an hour from the US border doesn't mean I'm blind to the suffering these kinds of decisions can cause (and groups are already lining up to challenge all kinds of stupid things), nor that the gak 'you folks' get up to can have repercussions on Canada, or simply friends and family I have that live in the states.

If distance prevents you from having any sense of empathy, then I feel sorry for you.

Hey, guys if I want to read other people's opinions on politics I'll read facebook. Keep politics there, please.

This is a place for little plastic soldiers and related, thanks.

You're kidding yourself if you think that having your workplace pay for your particular choice of birth control is a "human right". If the company was mandating that their employees don't use them then I'd be right there with you but they're not... they're simply asking to not have to pay for something that is in their view inherently against their religious beliefs.

Guys - there's a thread down there in the OT Forum for debating those things.

Please stay on topic here - thanks!